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Posted: 1/10/2004 11:02:51 PM EDT
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Just another warning. Partially due to my penchant for wanting things that are difficult to obtain, I recently had another run-in with a ridiculously bad internet company. I had posted my previous awful experience with Florida Gun Works.... Botach Tactical has advertised actual IMI (Winchester) M855 green tip ammunition in 1200 round case lots. I ordered 2400 rounds on 12/29/03 I won't bore you with all the details, but suffice it to say that they IMMEDIATELY charged my credit card via paypal after I completed an overly complicated sequence of printing, scanning and e-mailing their required forms, taking almost 60 minutes to actually place the order. I never received any confirmation that the order was received, save the paypal e-mail documenting that Botach DID take my money. NO order number was EVER provided, just the Paypal transaction number. I wrote 2-3 e-mails per day and left 1-2 voice messages per day on the voicemail of the mysterious 'extension 119' - or 'Jeff' as the receptionists (all of whose heavily accented verbal communication barely qualify as English) call him. Incidentally, no receptionist has EVER been able to locate my order in their system, despite all attempts, and the fact that they charged my Mastercard immediately. They always ask me first for my order number (which I still have never received from Botach), and then try unsuccessfully to locate the order by zip code, name, address, you name it. One day he actually answered his extension (by accident I guess), and assured me that he had located my order in the computer, and that 'everything was in order', and my order would be shipped right away. Sure enough, I got the both the anxiously awaited Paypal and UPS e-mail notifications that my order information had been transmitted to the shipper (UPS) and that the expected delivery date was 1/8/04 Well, the date came and went, and guess what. No package. The tracking number still just pulls up the 'billing information received' message on the UPS tracking site. So I called back and a receptionist, again she could not locate my order in the system, and was about to put me through to Jeff's voice mail. I said that Jeff NEVER answered his phone OR returned either e-mail or voiced mail, and that this was not acceptable. She said then that she would 'hand deliver' the message to Jeff. Well wouldn't you know it, he never called. So I called back and the receptionist and she tried unsuccessfullly to find my order in the computer (big surprise). She said that Jeff (x119) was unavailable, and that their CS reps all go home at 2 PM, so since my order was not in the system, there was nothing she could do. I then asked her if my experience was typical there at Botach Tactical. She confessed that she was new there, but she did receive 'quite a few' calls from irate, dissatisfied customers. So I will call back monday, and if I don't get a satisfactory response, I am going to have Paypal yank the $ back. If they won't do it then I will have my credit company pull the $ back from Paypal I am fed up with this stuff. It may be a long time before I place another internet order, and I will CERTAINLY not order from these totally disorganized jerks again. |
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Very sorry to hear how this disfunctional company is ran. I remember reading about this company before and I almost placed a order with them last week thank goodness I didn't. I pulled them up on a search engine looked at the product, then the name of the company and very nicely closed the browser. Since this has happened to you h-bakken and several others on the site. Botach Tactical [50] |
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Yep, they can be very frustrating and arrogant. I have dealt with them several times. Two shipments arrived immediately. One took two weeks. The last took 6 weeks (This is the only one where I actually tried contacting them because their site alerts they process their contract orders prior to dealing with individuals). I finally got in touch with "Jeffery" by using the contact link on their web page. He responded to that in a couple of days with a tracking number. Fact is, though, the product and price is also worth consideration. 1200 rounds of IMI-M193 shipped for $189 (2003 headstamp)! I am willing to do a few emails and wait awhile when it does go wrong with the belief that it will eventually get here. Overall I make well over a hundred internet purchases per year and have yet to be actually cheated. But, many businesses seem to cause me problems; even the company that I work for has screwed up orders for me royaly. It is the lack of response/care (arrogance) that is hard to tolerate.[banghead] I don't think they are ARFCOM merchants. At least they are not listed on the industry page. So I don't think we have any influence there. They likely don't even know who we are. The nice thing about your post and the others on this board is that we all know to prepare ourselves or else avoid doing business with them ("you knew I was a snake when you picked me up - ssssssoftly sighed the snake"). Dan |
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Quoted: Yep, they can be very frustrating and arrogant. I have dealt with them several times. Two shipments arrived immediately. One took two weeks. The last took 6 weeks (This is the only one where I actually tried contacting them because their site alerts they process their contract orders prior to dealing with individuals). I finally got in touch with "Jeffery" by using the contact link on their web page. He responded to that in a couple of days with a tracking number. Fact is, though, the product and price is also worth consideration. 1200 rounds of IMI-M193 shipped for $189 (2003 headstamp)! I am willing to do a few emails and wait awhile when it does go wrong with the belief that it will eventually get here. Overall I make well over a hundred internet purchases per year and have yet to be actually cheated. But, many businesses seem to cause me problems; even the company that I work for has screwed up orders for me royaly. It is the lack of response/care (arrogance) that is hard to tolerate.[banghead] I don't think they are ARFCOM merchants. At least they are not listed on the industry page. So I don't think we have any influence there. They likely don't even know who we are. The nice thing about your post and the others on this board is that we all know to prepare ourselves or else avoid doing business with them ("you knew I was a snake when you picked me up - ssssssoftly sighed the snake"). Dan Dan I stand corrected you are right they are not listed, I could have sworn I seen them on the industry board, but I have looked at so much stuff and spent so much money in the last week names and web-sites are running together. Thanks for the correction, now I have to clean my previous thread. |
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h_bakken: You situation sounds exactly, exactly, exactly like mine. I believe you when you say the charged you card in a heartbeat but never sent your ammo. I did the whole phone call/e-mail thing you have done. My advice to you is to use the "online instant help". It may take up to 10 minutes for an op to asist you. You basicly IM back and forth between the company. Tell them your name. Tell them what you ordered. Most importantly tell them the exact date you ordered it. Tell them your credit card has been charged and that you are accum interest on a product you have not recieved. And above all---make sure that little fucker at Botach gives you a tracking #!! After you have thanked them for their time, tell them you will contact them untill you see on usp.com that your shipment is indeed enroute. Believe me, they will get tired of hearing from you. Please keep us (me) posted. I hate this company with a deep-rooted passion. |
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Quoted: One lesson here is never to use paypal for this sort of thing, mastercard or visa would let you dispute the charge but paypal does not if it's gun related. Hence I don't use paypal. I have boycotted paypal ever since they took their anti-gun stance. Hope it all works out for you. I've heard nothing but negative commentary about this company. There for the buck, not for the customer. Good luck friend. Agnew out. |
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Never having delt with Botech I was wondering who Jeff @ ext 119 is. Is he a Salesman or shipping Dept person? If it was me I would say "Fu(k Jeff and tell the reception lady that I want to talk to the HMFIC (if Jeff isn't that person) and tell him about your problems, that you will tell everyone you know about your problem and suggest that noone ever buys from then and that you are having Paypal pull your money back from them. there are enough places to get ammo out there, you don't need to put up with their crap. |
| It's kinda like what they say is you get what you pay for. I've visited their "facility" in Los Angeles. They operate out of a rear storage area of a pawn shop. no joke. They have charged me for backordered items and have zero follow up by their customer reps. Their prices are cheap, but their service is terrible. Will I order from them again. Yeah, because I'm cheap and I'll wait. |
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Botach sucks! After two weeks of not hearing anything on my order I called them. Finally after three days of trying, I talked to a person that spoke english. We don't have those and don't know when we will have them. I told them I want a refund to my card that they charged the day I placed the order. Three months later they credited the card. |
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Dealt with them once many years ago over the phone. Actually talked to someone at the time that spoke English! Only ordered two things and they screwed up my color choice. I called to place another order one time and was told that unless you had a large order or a gov't order use the internet ordering (at a time when I didn't even have a computer), and she had to repeat that message twice because she couldn't speak the language. Nice prices are what lure people in. Lack of stock, sometimes slow shipping and bad service is what turns them away forever. |
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Hell I should start a business like that...have a nice website that has almost anything that anyone would want for guns, list it dirt cheap....wait for the orders to pour in and flee the country a very rich man. Im glad this thread came up....I almost ordered an M3 light from them...they had it listed for like 89 bucks...cheapest I'd ever seen it, now I know WHY...if its too good to be true, it probably is :) -Brian- |
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I've ordered from them twice, and both times had a good experience. 1st: I wanted a set of Peltor Comtacs. I ordered online. Within an hour, I was informed that the color I wanted was out of stock, and they would replace it for another and give me a discount. I declined. Ordered item arrived about 10 days later. 2nd: I found a problem with my hiking pack the day before I was to leave on vacation. I called them up since they had what I wanted. They worked overtime trying to find what I needed, even telling me about cheaper packs I could save money on. They sent out the pack Next Day, and I received it right before I left. |
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Brou, While I have ordered from Botach and have gotten what I ordered, I would NEVER EVER recommend that anyone order ANYTHING from them if you are on any kind of a time-line. While they WILL eventually get your order out and get you want you need, the time it takes to resolve your order completely can be 1 week (good!) to six months (multiple screw-ups, returns, etc.). This also depends a lot on what you order. They generally do fine with "ammo by the case" sales, but ordering a dozen small/medium priced items is almost certainly going to mean that *something* is going to be wrong with your order, with the most common problem being that some items are out-of-stock and won't be shipped for 3 months. Oh, and they will have charged your card in full on the day of your order. You got VERY lucky, but be careful to manage your expectations of them, or you will get burned. -Troy |
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I know, Troy. The point of my posting was to show that they aren't always bad. You never hear about people who had good experiences with a company...only those who've had bad ones. I know Botach has problems, but sometimes it's good to show a positive transaction. |
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Thanks for all the support. I will try the instant help on the website, as well as calling x119 every 5 minutes all day on monday. I still want that ammo. I really don't care if it takes a long time to get it, I really just want a response from the company indicating that they don't have the M855 in stock, but expect it on such and such a date. The event which REALLY angered me was the use of a false UPS shipping notice 'billing information received' to incorrectly activate UPS' delivey notification system - [red]THEY PROVIDED ME WITH A UPS TRACKING NUMBER, THEN NEVER GAVE THE PACKAGE TO UPS.[/red] Botach basically used a loophole in the method that UPS uses to create the delivery notice to put me off. This is dishonest and misleading. It is also unnecessary. I would have ordered this ammunition even if Botach had originally told me it would take 3 months. I will keep the thread posted with new developments tomorrow. PS which board is the 'feedback section' mentioned above? |
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I must have missed this thread. A few weeks ago I called about some products, the cheap prices and numerous item selections are what attracted me... I called, inquired, then kept on shopping. I ordered from a known company that wasn't as cheap but one that I have used before. BTW: If it takes 20 minutes and multiple line transfers and being hung up on to answer a question about a product, they can find another customer. |
| everytime i have ordered from botach i'd receive order number and that would be sent in with your statement,i reckon if you didn't do that that would back ur order up a couple days probably...i wouldn't be surprised also if your order is delayed because of new yrs, did they shut down a few days? |
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It is very odd. They have never given me an order number. The only time I got in touch with X119 (jeff), he told me that the order was being shipped as we spoke. I was so overjoyed I neglected to ask for the order number. anyhow I am going to be a fly in their ointment for a while. at least until my green tips show up. |
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I doubt the holidays had anything to do with the ammo problems. Botach is boarder line crooked. How could one think anything other? How dare Botach---or any company--make it appear that the product has been sent. I can hear it now, "you should not believe everything you read Newbe". Well before someone states that, hear me out: I made two ammo orders two weeks apart. When I inquired about my second ammo order they gave me the tracking # to my FIRST order. They told me the shipment was delayed so they could ship both orders together. I told them that was odd because I had recieved my FIRST ammo shipment the previous day. They flat out lied to me. They might have known they were caught since the "Live Help" connection was suddenly cancelled. Those pricks "hung up" on me! I've also seen the M3X Insights for sale at Botach. I have called around to see what other companies have them for sale and get the same answer: "We just posted our prices so customers know how much they will run when we get them next month." All the companies I have asked have stated that my credit card would NOT be charged untill the lights are shipped. I seriously doubt Botach would wait to charge a credit card. |
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I wonder if anyone from Botach ever reads any of this feedback. Maybe it wouldn't matter. I get so pissed when companies treat their customers like that. Even good companies screw up once in a while but if they're any good at all they make it right and communicate, communicate, communicate with their customers in those situations. Yeah a few have had good experiences with them but in my mind customer service is the name of the game. Nobody has a monopoly on merchandise these days. You decide who to buy from. Like an associate of mine once told me, "When it comes to customer service, One Oh Sh**! offsets a hundred 'at a boys". Best we can do is talk and listen to each other's experiences, and act accordingly. Don't settle for less than than excellent customer service, like you don't settle for less than excellent products. Our strongest weapon against the Botach's of the world is to take our business elsewhere. |
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Thanks Brouhaha. - I'll post a much abbreviated warning there. and [red]INTERESTING UPDATE[/RED] (the poster above wonders if Botach reads AR15.com) Since I posted this thread, my shipment has (gasp) actually shipped... I can now see these boxes making their way from Los Angeles to my door. Thanks for all of the feedback all, I really do believe that Botach looks at this forum. I don't think my M855 shipping at this particular time is an accident. Thanks again. It is my impression that dealing with this company is hit or (mostly) miss. While they have interesting and uncommon products, and I don't think they are outright theives, I am not willing to put up with the frustration caused by this level of customer (dis)service. over and out. |
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I tried ordering from Botach in November. I got an email confirmation with a link to check order status, but the order number would not work. After emailing 4x, with no reponse, I used their online feedback form 2-3x, and finally got an email from them stating the item was not in stock & they had no idea when/if it ever would be. This was now after Xmas. I cancelled the order. (in this case, if a price looks too good to be true....) |
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i actually visited there store back in nov/99. wanted to buy some 30rd ar15 mags. they would only sell to leo only! so i bought my hi-caps at another gunshop. Botach isnt a real gunshop. it is a Pawnshop. besides lawnmowers, scotchtape, and bubble gum. they sell some ammo too. Stay AWAY from Botach. i think they hire the "mentally challenged" from the local GoodWill center. LOL |
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I am not at all surprised by the physical description of Botach Tactical. It matches their customer service profile to a 'T'. [red]And just to give credit where credit is due, mr_wilson, the member who gave me Botach as a source for M855, DID WARN ME about the company, giving the same caution that I have since posted on the 'feedback' board.[/red] I CAN'T SAY I WASN'T WARNED. I was just excited about the prospect of getting some new NATO M855, I looked past the warning. OK all. Thanks again. |
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I've done 6 orders to date with botach, all using a credit card, also purchasing ammo, twice. I have never had any problems at all...with the exception of having to wait an extra week for a package. But when paying 25 bucks for a G2, and 20 bucks for a fobus mount (amongst other things), the price can't be beat. I will continue to order from them, but I will never use paypal with them. If you use a CC, you'll be in good shape. |
| My wife ordered me a case of M193 for a Christmas present from Botach. I got my case of ammo for Christmas. She had no problem ordering it and receiving it on time. I realize I or she must of been lucky after reading the negative feedback posted here in this thread. I probably will order from them again and hope my luck does not run out. |
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You know, the only reason we are trying to deal with Botach is because they have the IMI ammo. Maybe we should direct a little venom at IMI and let them know that their US distributor is hacking off the very customer base IMI wants to retain? Just a random thought. |
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it IS M193. it's IMI M193. 1200 rounds for $189. it's a good deal, and worth the two weeks i've waited both times. i myself don't deal with it. i pay my friend the money, and he orders it on his credit card. there are two others friends of mine that do the same thing with this one particular friend. it's worked out so far, even though the first time they lost the order and had to have my friend re-order it. i figure, hell, i never wait until i'm dying from lack of ammo to order, so two weeks is fine, and i don't have to talk to them or otherwise involve myself. see, you people need to convince a friend to order it instead. |
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I ordered 1200rds for $189 shipped. They faxed me the form, i faxed it back with my CC#. FIVE (5) days later UPS delivered it to my door. If you anal retentives want your ammo ASAP. try reloading your own so you can stockpile your fuckin million rounds for the SHTF day. Have a good day. |
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That is the ONLY positive post I have ever read involving Botach. I'm glad your order went as well as it did. Please remember we are not "bashing" Botach. We are all just relaying our own experiences. They all just happen to be bad ones. There is a saying: "A broken watch is right twice a day." I guess Botach was bound to get something right at some point. Does'nt change the fact that that company is broken, though. |
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[red]Got my 2400 of M855 today. Only took 17 days. It's not the time it took which upset me - it really isn't that long - but the ridiculously bad way I was treated by their 'customer service'. I don't think these guys are crooks, but I wouldn't have cared if the ammunition took 3 months, if only I would have heard back from them with an accurate time estimate.[/red] Again - if you order from these guys, you may eventually get your merch at a good price. Just don't expect to hear from them EVER if you want to know how the order is coming along, and also expect to have your CC charged before the order ships. over and out |
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Well, here's another positive post. While I've heard nothing but problems involving them on several boards, I must say that I've placed about twelve orders through them in the past, and in all cases everything went as smooth as silk. One time I called to verify that they received a on-line order, and ended up speaking to what sounded like a young Spanish speaking kid, but even then the order went smooth. After hearing all of the stories though, I wouldn't want to press my luck. KZ |
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Quoted: That is the ONLY positive post I have ever read involving Botach. You can't read very well then. There have been several in this thread, including one by me. Every thread about Botach has positive and negative stories (although there are definitely more negative). |
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Quoted: Quoted: That is the ONLY positive post I have ever read involving Botach. You can't read very well then. There have been several in this thread, including one by me. Every thread about Botach has positive and negative stories (although there are definitely more negative). Young Jedi, maybe he did not read all the posts on this thread. |
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Ok, I stand corrected. There has been two (three depending on how you look at it) strictly positive posts involving Botach. Any other positive posts involve a greater amount of negativity. This Botach thread looks more and more like a R GUNS thread. Sure there is a bit of good feedback, but the negative far out weighs it. And yes, there has been a positve post about Botach from you----and a warning right after it. |
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Quoted: I ordered 1200rds for $189 shipped. They faxed me the form, i faxed it back with my CC#. FIVE (5) days later UPS delivered it to my door. If you anal retentives want your ammo ASAP. try reloading your own so you can stockpile your fuckin million rounds for the SHTF day. Have a good day. |
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