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Posted: 7/24/2003 12:29:49 PM EDT
If I put Wolf ammunition in the oven on a self-cleaning cycle do you think that would remove the coating that can gum up the receiver?.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 1:23:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Stevester: If I put Wolf ammunition in the oven on a self-cleaning cycle do you think that would remove the coating that can gum up the receiver?.
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I've fired 90 rounds as fast as I could pull the trigger and there wasn't ANY coating gumming up the CHAMBER (or any other part of the gun). SO, you know what I think when people dredge up this sad old wives tale. [BS] The OLD Wolf ammo stock had a red sealant around the bullet/neck which sometimes caused FTE but they no longer use it.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 1:50:51 PM EDT
Yes, daphotoguy is right. It isn't the lacquered cases that were causing trouble, it was the red sealant around the neck that would gum up chambers. Wolf has recently acknowledged the problem and taken steps to correct it. On the other hand, if I can still buy ammo manufactured in 1980, you can bet there is still Wolf with copious amounts of red sealant out there for sale.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 1:55:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Stevester: If I put Wolf ammunition in the oven on a self-cleaning cycle do you think that would remove the coating that can gum up the receiver?.
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Sure. I think putting loaded ammunition in an oven on cleaning cycle at 500 degrees or more for an extended period of time is a great idea. Just don't tell your wife what happened to her kitchen. [BD] Actually, I don't know at what temperature ammo starts to cook off, but I seriously doubt that putting the oven on the cleaning cycle (nothing more than heating it as hot, hot, hot as it can get to turn all the crud into ash) can be a good idea. Either your rifle eats Wolf just fine and you don't worry about it, or try Silver Bear nickel plated stuff. Repeat until you find something you like.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 2:17:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Stevester: If I put Wolf ammunition in the oven on a self-cleaning cycle do you think that would remove the coating that can gum up the receiver?.
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Just so ya know the self cleaning setting on eletric ovens is 800+ degrees. It will make a nice explosion. I'd like to add that the lacquer on steel cases is there to help them extract, that is it makes them more like brass.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 2:26:28 PM EDT
I was just kidding about the oven but I bet it would really be neat as the temps go real high, I would not doubt it would cook at least one off.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 10:32:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DaPhotoGuy: I've fired 90 rounds as fast as I could pull the trigger and there wasn't ANY coating gumming up the CHAMBER (or any other part of the gun). SO, you know what I think when people dredge up this sad old wives tale. [BS] The OLD Wolf ammo stock had a red sealant around the bullet/neck which sometimes caused FTE but they no longer use it.
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This is NOT an old wives tale! I had it happen to me LAST WEEK. I figured I'd give it a shot & learn for myself. After getting heated up a bit (about 270rds) I had a complete failure of the weapon. Case was stuck so hard I could not pull back my charging handle. I finally used the bench to punch the handle and it ripped the case head right off the case, but left it still stuck in the weapon. When I got home, I sprayed LPS into the barrel & let it sit overnight. In the am, I used my cleaning rod & a mallet to bang it out. Wolf in an AR or M16 is just not worth the risk. This happened in my BM M16.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 10:38:37 PM EDT
Here is my email to a friend who imports ammo: Got some interesting news re Wolf .223. I went shooting on Monday and had a complete failure like I have read about. After shooting 7 mags in a fairly rapid succession (ie weapon was rather hot) the weapon started to have extraction problems. After another few rounds, I had the weapon not cycle properly. I tried to pull the charging handle back but it was stuck. So I positioned the weapon on the table and smashed the charging handle back. It ripped the head off the case & left it still jambed into the chamber. After the weapon cooled down & I varified the round stuck was expended, I used the cleaning rod and a mallet to bust it out. Took quite a bit of force. I then used a qtip and swabed the chamber. Came out with all the red lacqur from the round, sticky as hell! Now I finally have first hand confirmation that once the weapon gets hot enough, it will melt the lacqur. Worked fine for light plinking, but not under sustained fire. BTW the platform was a 14.5" M16.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 4:59:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/25/2003 5:10:06 AM EDT by DaPhotoGuy]
Originally Posted By MGNiko: Here is my email to a friend who imports ammo: Got some interesting news re Wolf .223. I went shooting on Monday and had a complete failure like I have read about. After shooting 7 mags in a fairly rapid succession (ie weapon was rather hot) the weapon started to have extraction problems. After another few rounds, I had the weapon not cycle properly. I tried to pull the charging handle back but it was stuck. So I positioned the weapon on the table and smashed the charging handle back. It ripped the head off the case & left it still jambed into the chamber. After the weapon cooled down & I varified the round stuck was expended, I used the cleaning rod and a mallet to bust it out. Took quite a bit of force. I then used a qtip and swabed the chamber. Came out with all the red lacqur from the round, sticky as hell! Now I finally have first hand confirmation that once the weapon gets hot enough, it will melt the lacqur. Worked fine for light plinking, but not under sustained fire. BTW the platform was a 14.5" M16.
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Now, if you are at a 3rd grade reading level, look up at the first reply in this thread. What you mistakenly call LACQUER is actually the red SEALANT around the neck/bullet of the round. The LACQUER is the greenish brown coating that coats the ENTIRE case. You are correct that the RED SEALANT can cause FTE problems, I've had the same problems myself that you described. But, [b]WOLF NO LONGER MAKES .223 WITH RED SEALANT ON IT!!![/b] If you buy NEW STOCK you'd find that out. I purchased 1000 rounds from www.ammunitionstore.com and none of the rounds had the RED SEALANT any more. All of them functioned fine at extreme high rates of fire. Now, I have a question for you. If the case head ripped off as you say, how did you get the rest of the stuck case out with a [b]cleaning rod and a mallet[/b]? Usually you would need a broken case extractor tool to do this? Also, it is interesting that both you and your friends email mention that you ripped the head off the case when pounding/pulling back on the charging handle. I always found that the steel cases were so strong they wouldn't rip like that. I just had to go down the muzzle with the cleaning rod and tap it out.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 6:22:41 AM EDT
I love Wolf since day 1 and just put 2k of the old red sealant stuff thru a Colt M16 and an FNC in full auto. Not one single failure or problem. I have one upper that uses Wolf exclusively and it had over 11k thru it and no problems. Have used green, blue, and black color Wolf cases; some have the reddish sealant and some didn't. I suspect that these failures being experienced are due to non-chrome barrels and 223 or match chambers. I use only real Colt barrels and have never had a problem with Wolf. The FNC barrel is chrome and NATO so no problems there. Just got another 7k of Wolf and it looks like all have the sealant; the $80 price was too tempting to pass.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 3:41:46 PM EDT
I too was a little curious about "tapping with a mallet" from the bore end? There wouldn't be anything to tap on. If I could find some Wolf at $80 a K I'd buy it and shoot it. I've a new outfit I'm loosening up and think I need to polish the chamber first. Even fancy ammo is a bit sticky in it when I just work the charging handle. I'm beginning to believe that Wolf is great plinking ammo - want to sell some of that $80 stuff? Or let us know where it is?
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 7:53:21 PM EDT
Stevester, I would actually like to see you put ammo in a 800 degree oven, let me know what happens to your house, show pics! You'll probably be on the show "The World's Stupidest People!" [:D]
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 9:11:27 PM EDT
Yep, that ought to do it. I would suggest doing a whole case at a time and and carefully watching the process through the glass window. It will be like nothing you've ever seen before! Hoppy
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 2:32:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By armoredsaint: Stevester, I would actually like to see you put ammo in a 800 degree oven, let me know what happens to your house, show pics! You'll probably be on the show "The World's Stupidest People!" [:D]
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When unconfined ammo cooks off the bullet pushes out of the case with very low velocity. The primer is more dangerous as it can leave the pocket with speed, but it is very light and loses energy quickly. None of the components would leave the oven.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 2:43:43 AM EDT
What about putting the ammo in a tumbler? I've heard of peopel doign this to get rid of the annealing. And from what i've heard, it's relatively safe. Prolly won't get all the laquer off, but will certainly take some off.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 7:51:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NAM: What about putting the ammo in a tumbler? I've heard of peopel doign this to get rid of the annealing. And from what i've heard, it's relatively safe. Prolly won't get all the laquer off, but will certainly take some off.
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Am I talking to myself here? [b]YOU DO NOT NEED TO GET THE LACQUER OFF.[/b] Maybe the red sealant but not the lacquer.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 11:26:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NAM: What about putting the ammo in a tumbler? I've heard of peopel doign this to get rid of the annealing. And from what i've heard, it's relatively safe. Prolly won't get all the laquer off, but will certainly take some off.
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Um I thought "annealing" was the process of making metal softer by slowly cooling it... Tumbling in that case wouldnt effect annealing at all because it's just a change in the crystal structure of the brass...
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 12:07:09 PM EDT
Tumbling loaded rifle ammo is just slightly less idiotic than putting it in a hot oven. Meplat-
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 12:57:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2003 12:58:21 PM EDT by Dano523]
To remove the red bullet sealer, all you need is nail polish remover or acetone.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 1:14:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Meplat: Tumbling loaded rifle ammo is just slightly less idiotic than putting it in a hot oven. Meplat-
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Tell that to remington, hornady, winchester, etc. Most major manufacturers tumble their loaded ammo. It gets rid of the annealing marks. That funky rainbow looking shit near the neck? that's from annealing. Military leave it on. But most commercial ammo manufacturers tumble the loaded ammo to get rid of it. It doesn't effect performance in any way, just looks better.
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