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Posted: 2/15/2003 1:39:48 PM EDT
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I have a Bushmaster with a 1/9" Twist Chome lined barrel and am looking to find the best, all-around accurate bullte to reload with. first off, with the 1/9 twist, what bullet weight would be stabilized the BEST? 40, 50, 55? Highter? Lower? Ideally, I would like something that is ballistc tipped. The application would be mostly target shooting, maybe with some varmminting, and possibly the occasional coyote. There is also a possibility of Squirrel or Rabbit hunting (Yes, I know it's overkill), as the .22 I have isn't too acurate. Among the bullets I have been thinking about are the Hornady V-MAX, Hornady SST, Nosler Ballistic Tipped Varmint, and Nosler Ballistic Silvertip. The Speer 50gr TNT is another possibility. I was also looking for info on moly-coated bullets. I have heard that there is a special cleaning procedure you must follow before shooting non moly-coated bullets. does this apply to a chrome lined barrel as well? Anyone have any experience with any of these or have any bullet or load suggestions? Thanks |
| A 1/9 twist will stabilize loads up to 69 grains just fine. They will also shoot the lighter bullets well too. I wish I could tell you a particular bullet to try that would be the best, but every gun is different. What one rifle likes, another may not. Just pick any of the better bullets and start experimenting and find what best suits your particular rifle. The various polymer tipped bullets and HP's in 50, 52 and 55 gr would probably be a good place to start. For longer range shooting, a boat-tail design may also aid in accuracy. |
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357Sigfan, Like Charging handle says,I have had different luck with the same bullet in different rifles. I have one rifle that just loves the 55gr. Sierra Blitz,and the other shoots it so-so. The same two rifles do really well with the 60gr Hornady V-max and the old Sierra 55gr Blitz Med. velocity bullet. 55gr. Ballistic tips,Blitz kings,and the V-max are all safe bets for trial. Let the rifle decide what it likes best. On the terminal end,all three are pretty much identical though,with rapid fragmentation and explosive results on small critters. Do you plan to eat the squirrels? If so avoid body shots. Tails and ears aren't very filling! As a side note,Hornady puts out a 35gr V-max bullet that a buddy and I tried about a year back. My 20" Bushy shot them into .75MOA @ 100m and then went wild @ 200m, His went into .5 MOA at 200m all day long with them. The little pills are PERFECT for garden raiders and renegade starlings in the yard,if your rifle likes them. 53gr Sierra Match kings(Flat based) work well on woodchucks and 'yotes,and have been VERY accurate for me in several rifles with 1-8 and 1-9 twist. In Bulk Bargain bullets,it seems to depend on the lot.I have a good quantity of Remington Bulk soft points that shoot much better than they should,and the previous lot was doing well with the same data if it went MOA. I have had the same thing happen with Bulk Winchester 55gr bullets. I use the Bulk soft points for Pepper poppers and general target use where accuracy isn't a absolute must have,to save on cost for the high volume expended. Moly.... Moly CAN be a pain in the rump. The stuff does help somewhat in reducing the copper fouling if a large volume is going to be fired between cleanings in a non-Chrome bore. In a chrome bore,Moly coated bullets are just a unneccesary additional cost,and there is very little if any advantage,and lots of tinkering and mess involved. I farted with Moly for about 3 years in several rifles(Non chrome bores),and one rifle showed better accuracy.Cleaning was easier after a highpower match in the one rifle with the cut rifling,but the third actually did worse with the Moly coated bullets. Finally I decided that it was yet another variable that I did not have time for and havn't gone back. Good quality hand lapped barrels reduce the fouling just about as well,and the issues with neck tension,and fussing with the filth could be forgotten. Good luck whatever ya do! S-28 |
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Okay, here's a stupid ??? that everyone but me probably knows the answer to: If the 1/9 twist will stabilize heavier bullets up to the 69 gr weight, then why did the military go to the 1/7 twist? I thought they went to the tighter twist to "stabilize the heavier M855 rounds". |
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It's a little hard to answer your question because I'm not sure what you are asking. You seem to want to reload. Ok. You have a 1:9 twist. Ok. You want an "all-around accurate bullet." Ok. You want a "ballistic tipped." (But you don't say why). Ok. You want to target shoot, with some varmint/coyote hunting. You want "information on moly-coated bullets." I can suggest this: In .223 the best "all around" and "cheap" round is probably 55 grain FMJ M193- and generally it makes good brass for reloading. It will pass for self-defense (quite nicely really) and it will probably take care of coyote. It may or may not be accurate in your weapon. Try it out. For smaller varmints, try 40 grain-50 grain VMAX. For coyotes try anything from 45 grains to the 50 grain TNT to 64 grain Power Points all the way up to 69 grain Sierra Match King rounds. Find what's accurate with some testing and use that. Some people prefer heavier rounds for 'yotes, since they can be tough. The only rounds of the above that will do any good for self defense in my view are the 64 grain power points (maybe) and the 69 grain Sierra Match King rounds. It's really hard to figure out what you are asking since the requirements you're setting up are in some ways contradictory. You're not going to have a squirrel round do all that well in 'yotes- for example. (Some people claim good results with 40 grain in 'yotes- I suspect those must be pretty small 'yotes). I wouldn't use Moly. It really doesn't gain you much and it has the potential to make a mess of things. How much reloading have you done? Or are you just starting? Read the FAQ by clicking [url=www.ammo-oracle.com]HERE[/url]. Get a feel for what you are really looking for and ask us in here again. |
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Quoted: As a side note,Hornady puts out a 35gr V-max bullet that a buddy and I tried about a year back. My 20" Bushy shot them into .75MOA @ 100m and then went wild @ 200m, His went into .5 MOA at 200m all day long with them. The little pills are PERFECT for garden raiders and renegade starlings in the yard,if your rifle likes them. Wouldn't a 35gr bullet fly apart when it leaves the barrel at 1/9" twist? As for the squirrels and or rabbits, I would go for head shots, which is why I want to find a good round that is a tack driver, as the rifle should have no problem doing it once I find the right load(s). |
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Quoted: Quoted: As a side note,Hornady puts out a 35gr V-max bullet that a buddy and I tried about a year back. My 20" Bushy shot them into .75MOA @ 100m and then went wild @ 200m, His went into .5 MOA at 200m all day long with them. That is REALLY surprising with that light a round. How was that measured? The little pills are PERFECT for garden raiders and renegade starlings in the yard,if your rifle likes them. Wouldn't a 35gr bullet fly apart when it leaves the barrel at 1/9" twist? Should be ok in 1:9. Probably not a good idea in 1:7. As for the squirrels and or rabbits, I would go for head shots, which is why I want to find a good round that is a tack driver, as the rifle should have no problem doing it once I find the right load(s). I'm not sure why you'd want to go any lighter than 40-45 grains really. Start getting that much velocity and barrel erosion is just too high. That's not to mention the issues you'll have with even a little bit of wind. 45 grain is plenty explosive when you're using SP or Ballistic tip. Then again, I haven't shot much 35 grain... perhaps you'll love it. |
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357Sigfan, Load used was 28gr H335 in Win. cases. CCI BR-4 primers. Velocity was around 3,600fps if remember right. "Wouldn't a 35gr bullet fly apart when it leaves the barrel at 1/9" twist?" No,they don't fly apart,but drive the same bullet over 4,200fps in a 22-250ack and they will! Tatanja, Groups were mesured from Center to center from the two furthest out from center of pattern.To be fair it was not an average of 10 groups of 5,but a couple groups of three. It freaked several of us out as well. The identical load,from the same run of loads shot over MOA@100m in a 1-8 barreled Shilen DGA. that routinely turns out .3's. I havn't tried speeding up or slowing down the load to see if it goes to "Sleep" earlier for me,as it is just a tinker load for zapping pests without the worry of skipping one off the deck and down the road into trouble.For this it works fine.Would be nice to have it shoot better further out just for crows however!!! Take care! S-28 |
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Quoted: 357Sigfan, Load used was 28gr H335 in Win. cases. CCI BR-4 primers. Velocity was around 3,600fps if remember right. "Wouldn't a 35gr bullet fly apart when it leaves the barrel at 1/9" twist?" No,they don't fly apart,but drive the same bullet over 4,200fps in a 22-250ack and they will! Tatanja, Groups were mesured from Center to center from the two furthest out from center of pattern.To be fair it was not an average of 10 groups of 5,but a couple groups of three. Still amazing! It freaked several of us out as well. The identical load,from the same run of loads shot over MOA@100m in a 1-8 barreled Shilen DGA. that routinely turns out .3's. Wow. |
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I wonder if the bullet was deforming in midair due to the high RPM. I really have no experience withit but I have read that the jacket will "puff out" in response to high RPM. It then stress hardens to the point where it stops. Of course it is larger diameter now so it has more stress than before. Think [engineering cliche] spinning ice skater [engineering cliche]. So maybe the bullets were right on the edge at 1 in 9 @3600 fps? So maybe if your bore was just slightly rougher than your buddy's? The bullets were getting more iregularities put in the high stressed jacket? Then they shoot decent at 100 and iregularities caused inaccuracy at 200? I have no idea really. Interesting theory and high speed physics are cool. I bet those that you could shoot those 35 grainers about anywhere, especially through a 1 in 9. Should fragment if it hits a big bumble bee. Has anyone ever shot a bumble bee with their AR? I like to shoot wood bees in the air with a BB gun, but they are too high(angle) to shoot with an AR. |
| Tatjana: From my experience with XM193, it's accuracy isn't that great. Out of my bushmaster at 50yds, it shot 3" groups. Some 52gr black hills I aquired shot groups about half the size. I personally don't have much experience reloading, but my grandfather has been shooting and reloading for decades. I have been shooting since I was 10 (I'm 22 now), have helped my grandfather with his reloading on occasion, and now am beginning to get the money to buy more "toys" and want to find a good accurate round for my newest aqusition. The reason I am looking for a ballistic tipped bullet is that I've heard that something to do with the ballistic tip makes them more accurate than some hollowpoints, while still having the same (or similar) terminal effect. Based on what I've been hearing from everyone, I'm not even going to think about playing with moly. It doesn't seem worth the trouble. As for varmints, coyotes, rabbits or squirrels: With the coyotes, I would think a 55gr V-Max, SST, Ballistic Silvertip, or 50gr TNT would probably be quite effective with a head shot or chest shot. For Varmints, any of the above would most likley work fine. With the squirrels or rabbits, I would also think any of the above would be fine, as you would want a head shot, even if you where using a 22LR, to preserve as much of the meat as possible (Yes, with a ballistic tip or TNT, a body hit would leave almost nothing. I've seen what a .22 Stinger will do to a rat, so I can imagine what a BT or TNT would do to a slightly larger critter, moving at 3000Fps+/-). |
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