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Posted: 2/27/2017 11:44:58 PM EDT
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Working on my second 9mm build. This time i want to get a little fancy. Two questions and im sure they've been asked but i couldn't find any other questions about it.
Question 1.) If using a Matrix or Frontier side charging upper, will any 9mm bolt work with them or do they require a certain bolt? Question 2.) Will the charge handle of a side charging upper interfere with a KAK Shockwave Buffer Tube with a Blade on said tube mounted on the Law Tactical folding adapter? Like will it fold all the way down and lock in place? Thanks for any help in advance! |
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Working on my second 9mm build. This time i want to get a little fancy. Two questions and im sure they've been asked but i couldn't find any other questions about it. Question 1.) If using a Matrix or Frontier side charging upper, will any 9mm bolt work with them or do they require a certain bolt? Question 2.) Will the charge handle of a side charging upper interfere with a KAK Shockwave Buffer Tube with a Blade on said tube mounted on the Law Tactical folding adapter? Like will it fold all the way down and lock in place? Thanks for any help in advance! 1. Any one should do. I have a lone Wolf glock cut bolt in mine. Was a tight fit to get it in but runs fine. 2. I can't say as I don't have the folder. |
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Are you buying just the upper and installing your barrel or plan on buying a complete upper? I put the New Frontier side charger upper only on my 9mm, which is an American Tactical, using their barrel and bolt/carrier. There were no issues.
What I'd be concerned about it is the spacer you have to install on the back of the bolt carrier to work with the folding adapter you plan to use. The install videos show it on a standard ar, so as long as the inside diameters of the 5.56 and 9mm bolt carriers are the same you shouldn't have an issue. The charging handle on the New Frontier sticks out a little over an inch from the upper, so I think you may have a clearance issue with the side folding adapter, but not sure. The pics on the Internet looks like the stock is fairly close to the side of the upper, but I can't be sure. |
Yeah man, building from scratch. So it would be a stripped upper that I will be barreling and building onto. Ive found a fair amount of info about that stock spacer working on a 9mm build. Bolts like Spinta Precision have a removeable inner weight (as opposed to the solid rear end weight on some bolts like a PSA hybrid 9 bolt) that once removed and trimmed allows one to insert that folder spacer. I just couldn't quite find a good Google image showing me what i need to know .
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If you are having trouble as I did finding a Matrix S/C, I wound up with a knockoff by XProducts. Also MAS Defense offers a copy. I'm happy with my XProducts version. Looking at the MAS Defense one also, but hes usually out of stock too. Which is a shame as i work in Charlotte a lot and his shop is basically next door to the hotel i stay at. Would be nice to get hands on product and line shit up in person!!! |
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Not sure how much length if any a KAK stock adds to the buffer tube, but I had a Battle Arms Development lightweight butt stock on my AR9 with a Frontier side charger and Law Gen 3 folder. The BAD stock added about 1/4 to 3/8 inches to the buffer tube and it would just touch the charging handle while folding fairly flat as shown in the first picture. The second picture shows how far the stock folds on a regular upper.
Pete 
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Not sure how much length if any a KAK stock adds to the buffer tube, but I had a Battle Arms Development lightweight butt stock on my AR9 with a Frontier side charger and Law Gen 3 folder. The BAD stock added about 1/4 to 3/8 inches to the buffer tube and it would just touch the charging handle while folding fairly flat as shown in the first picture. The second picture shows how far the stock folds on a regular upper. Pete http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i259/azdover/Short%20Folding%20ARs/Folder%20side%20charger%20top_zpsxrvhggkd.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i259/azdover/Short%20Folding%20ARs/Folder%20regular%20upper_zpswsscwsjj.jpg That is most awesome sir!!!! Try as i might, i haven't been able to find any pictures anywhere showing that view with a side charge!! You are the man!! That helps a lot. The KAK tube is the same length as a normal pistol buffer tube, just has the detent spots for the Blade set screw. And the blade can be set flush with end of tube so that should clear!!! It looks like without that 1/4 to 3/8" the BAD stock added, it would clear. Also, what bolt were you using with that Law folder on your AR9? Did it give you much grief in cycling issues or was it pretty well matched in weight? |
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Are you buying just the upper and installing your barrel or plan on buying a complete upper? I put the New Frontier side charger upper only on my 9mm, which is an American Tactical, using their barrel and bolt/carrier. There were no issues. What I'd be concerned about it is the spacer you have to install on the back of the bolt carrier to work with the folding adapter you plan to use. The install videos show it on a standard ar, so as long as the inside diameters of the 5.56 and 9mm bolt carriers are the same you shouldn't have an issue. The charging handle on the New Frontier sticks out a little over an inch from the upper, so I think you may have a clearance issue with the side folding adapter, but not sure. The pics on the Internet looks like the stock is fairly close to the side of the upper, but I can't be sure. Replacing the 9mm BCG weight with the law folder extension makes you lose about an oz of over all carrier weight. I was reading it's possible to either tap the weight and use a screw for the extension, or cut the weight to size. |
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Replacing the 9mm BCG weight with the law folder extension makes you lose about an oz of over all carrier weight. I was reading it's possible to either tap the weight and use a screw for the extension, or cut the weight to size. I saw that too. Looks like if there is an inner weight, you can either remove it completely and add the folder extension and make up weight in tbe buffer, or cut that weight just enough to allow for folder extension to slip in the back of the bolt. I have yet to conduct any calculations as i dont have any parts other than a mostly complete lower as of now. |
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That is most awesome sir!!!! Try as i might, i haven't been able to find any pictures anywhere showing that view with a side charge!! You are the man!! That helps a lot. The KAK tube is the same length as a normal pistol buffer tube, just has the detent spots for the Blade set screw. And the blade can be set flush with end of tube so that should clear!!! It looks like without that 1/4 to 3/8" the BAD stock added, it would clear. Also, what bolt were you using with that Law folder on your AR9? Did it give you much grief in cycling issues or was it pretty well matched in weight? I've run both a CMMG and a QC10 bolt. I initially used a Slash 9Q-T buffer and later replaced that with a Blitzkrieg 9MM hydraulic buffer. Both worked well - I've fired the setups unsuppressed and suppressed using a Gemtec MK9K. Those 2 particular bolts have weights held in place with roll pins which are easy to knock out and replace with the Law bolt extension plug. Like Capt_Destro said, you only lose about an ounce in the bolt. The only thing that is a little different from normal is disassembly. You have to release both the takedown and pivot pins at the same time and then pull the upper forward and up from the lower. |
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I saw that too. Looks like if there is an inner weight, you can either remove it completely and add the folder extension and make up weight in tbe buffer, or cut that weight just enough to allow for folder extension to slip in the back of the bolt. I have yet to conduct any calculations as i dont have any parts other than a mostly complete lower as of now. I did this with a Splinta blem, took the weight out, cut the end of the weight off, replaced the weight in the bolt, then stuck the Law extension in like normal. I don't think I saved the info, but I cut about an ounce of weight off that inner piece and the Law extension is a litle over 2oz. Overall, my Splinta is now heavier than it was before, so can't see it's an issue, though haven't fired it yet. I used a dremel cut off wheel for cut the back off the base, so certainly not a complicated procedure. No reason for me to leave it out, I think it weighed ~3 oz, so taking out all 3oz and adding the 2oz of the Law extension might leave you a little light. But then I also stick with a normal 9mm buffer, so if you're going heavier there it probably wouldn't matter. |
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If you are having trouble as I did finding a Matrix S/C, I wound up with a knockoff by XProducts. Also MAS Defense offers a copy. I'm happy with my XProducts version. Yeah, I've been unable to find one for months, so gave up. The X looks just as good, but more $. Not like I "need" this. :) |
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I did this with a Splinta blem, took the weight out, cut the end of the weight off, replaced the weight in the bolt, then stuck the Law extension in like normal. I don't think I saved the info, but I cut about an ounce of weight off that inner piece and the Law extension is a litle over 2oz. Overall, my Splinta is now heavier than it was before, so can't see it's an issue, though haven't fired it yet. I used a dremel cut off wheel for cut the back off the base, so certainly not a complicated procedure. No reason for me to leave it out, I think it weighed ~3 oz, so taking out all 3oz and adding the 2oz of the Law extension might leave you a little light. But then I also stick with a normal 9mm buffer, so if you're going heavier there it probably wouldn't matter. Awesome. I think that is the route ill be going. Seriously looking at the Blitzkrieg Hydraulic buffer. That looks like a smooth beauty!! You guys rock. Thanks for assisting a 9mm rookie like myself. The first one i built was a PSA kit using the mag insert block. And of course right after i got it, PSA came out with their dedicated 9mm lowers. But it ran like a champ, just want to build one a bit smaller and not so budget minded. ] |
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Here is my AR-9 side charger. It is a left side active side charger handle. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh162/skeeljc/AR-9%20Side%20Charger/20170209_142144.jpg Nice!! Ah the joys of customizable stuff] |
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Got the Matrix, nicely made upper, but of course with any non-"milspec" part, need to make sure it works with what you use. The Matrix doesn't work with my dolos forend, won't work with the Midwest stuff I use either. I guess I'll be making a new 9mm again... I used a Midwest SP handguard on mine. I had to make a notch in one side for the charging handle. You cant even notice it. |
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Got the Matrix, nicely made upper, but of course with any non-"milspec" part, need to make sure it works with what you use. The Matrix doesn't work with my dolos forend, won't work with the Midwest stuff I use either. I guess I'll be making a new 9mm again... I have the SP on another gun, it looks like the anti-rotation tabs wouldn't work against the top near the rail? |
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