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8/28/2013 2:14:18 PM EDT
I've had a stainless CMMG conversion bolt for awhile now and want to build up a complete upper now.  This is what I'm thinking:

- DPMS Low Profile Upper Receiver
- Taccom .22lr M4 Barrel w/ velocity firearms nickel collar
    - This collar should fit on the CMMG bolt, right?
    - Is there much accuracy or reliability difference between Taccom and Beyer?

- CMMG 22ARC Anti-Jam charging handle
- MI 9-inch Mid-Length G2 T-Series One Piece Free Float Rail
    - I'm trying to imitate a Daniel Defense 9" Lite Rail, is this the closest match for on the cheap...er?
- Primary Arms Micro Dot with Removable Base
    - I'm trying to imitate an Aimpoint T1, would this be a decent alternative?
- Magpul MBUS sights

Does this setup look like it'd work?  Is there any way to have a true bolt-hold-open with it?

Thanks!
8/28/2013 3:12:39 PM EDT
[#1]
I forgot to ask; do I even need a gas block and gas tube on a .22lr upper?  Isn't it recoil operated?
8/28/2013 5:10:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Correct on all the above and no, you do not need a gas block.
I really like the M.I. T series. Very light weight and does resemble the DD Lite in looks aside from the mounting system.
Dave N
8/28/2013 6:55:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Great!

Any thoughts on Beyer vs Taccom?
8/28/2013 7:20:30 PM EDT
[#4]
TACCOM will be less expensive.  I dont know if either will be more accurate.  I own 2 TACCOM barrels and love them both.  When I get the money I am thinking a 11.5" .22 Upper.  I will have Tim build it.

MAHA
8/29/2013 4:57:13 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
I've had a stainless CMMG conversion bolt for awhile now and want to build up a complete upper now.  This is what I'm thinking:

- DPMS Low Profile Upper Receiver
- Taccom .22lr M4 Barrel w/ velocity firearms nickel collar
    - This collar should fit on the CMMG bolt, right?
    - Is there much accuracy or reliability difference between Taccom and Beyer?

- CMMG 22ARC Anti-Jam charging handle
- MI 9-inch Mid-Length G2 T-Series One Piece Free Float Rail
    - I'm trying to imitate a Daniel Defense 9" Lite Rail, is this the closest match for on the cheap...er?
- Primary Arms Micro Dot with Removable Base
    - I'm trying to imitate an Aimpoint T1, would this be a decent alternative?
- Magpul MBUS sights

Does this setup look like it'd work?  Is there any way to have a true bolt-hold-open with it?
Thanks!
View Quote


No problem swapping the Velocity collar, just be careful when you remove the CMMG Chamber Adapter so
you don't bend the rails.

When you compare the Taccom M4 profile barrel to a Beyer Barrel you seem to be missing the point. Taccom's
M4 barrel is not a lightweight barrel while Beyer's is and both use different manufacturing methods. The M4
is a conventional "solid" chrome-moly vanadium steel barrel. The light weight barrels are also different; Taccom
makes a "tensioned" barrel and Beyer's is a laminated aluminum steel hybrid. Both light weight offerings from the
two makers have good reputations. The question of whether the M4 barrel will be better than the two light weight
offerings depends on if you need an M4 profile. If you do, then yes, by all means give it a try. If weight reduction
is a consideration, go with a light weight barrel from either maker. All three are quality products.

I personally like the MI Gen II SS handguards for their slim profile devoid of unnecessary rails. These allow a
superb surface for offhand shooting and are light weight and of high quality. The rails on the T-Series are not
removable and add thickness to the handguard so for me, from a practical point, it is less desirable than the SS.
However, you seem to be concerned with cosmetics, so you'll go with what looks good to you. But beware, anyone
who knows AR's won't be fooled by the MI as there are significant, obvious differences between it and a DD.

As for Bolt Hold Open, the best product I've found is the Booney Packer and S&W M&P 15-22 Magazines. The
combination just can't be beat.

Enjoy assembling your gun, enjoy shooting it safely,

Ted
8/29/2013 5:53:51 AM EDT
[#6]
So the S&W M&P 15-22 magazines and the Black Dog magazines both work with the CMMG conversion? And the S&W magazines are superior to the Black Dog Mags?

Edit: found this thread that seems to answer my question
Thread
8/29/2013 6:19:34 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote History
Quoted:
So the S&W M&P 15-22 magazines and the Black Dog magazines both work with the CMMG conversion? And the S&W magazines are superior to the Black Dog Mags?
View Quote


How you got to there from my post is baffling, but I suppose anyone can interpret anything the way they want.

Here are some facts to help remove doubts:

Booney Packer's Bolt Hold Open uses only S&W M&P 15-22 Magazines.

The M&P magazines are easy to load, feed reliably, provide visual round status, are made from
long lasting tough polymer, and are inexpensive. They are easy to strip and clean.
No one said they're better than another brand, that determination is up to the user.

Booney Packer's Bolt Hold Open will work with a wide variety of .22lr bolts but won't work with
some of the older ones or with Nordic/DPMS' current bolts. Will it work with yours? Contact BP for
their take on the matter.

Hope that clears up some questions,
Ted
8/29/2013 7:07:56 AM EDT
[#8]
Didn't mean to baffle you... Those were questions not assertions, that's why I put question marks at the end of the sentences.   I was asking because I did not want to draw the wrong conclusions from  how I interpreted your statement.  I wasn't clear about what you meant when you wrote that the S&W mags and boonie packer bolt hold adapter was a combination that just couldn't be beaten.  Such are the challenges of written communications I suppose....

And Thanks for the clarification sir, I'm trying to determine what magazines might Work best for my particlar set up as I am in the planning/purchasing stage of the game.  While I realize that testing each system with my gun is the only meaningful way to answer that question, trial and error gets expensive and takes a lot of time.  I value your experience and may benefit from your advice as well as others.

If you'd like to write more about your particular experiences and how you've come to think the  S&W with the boonie packer BHO adapter is a combination that just can't be beat I'd love to read it!
8/29/2013 7:58:07 AM EDT
[#9]
Well "Z" it goes just like you pointed out; "expensively." I am a life-long shooter and competitor
who has fallen prey to the gun writer's sugar-coated reviews of every new product, only to find
that their practical experience was lacking. So here goes recitation of my personal hands on discoveries.

Being a High Power and Sport Tactical competitor safety was something every match, be it NRA sanctioned or
not, considered absolute law. Every chamber required a safety flag and nearly all wanted the bolt held in the
locked open position. That was center fire, then along came the popularity of Reduced Range Simulated HP
matches for rimfire and Rimfire Tactical and, what do you know, the organizers demanded the same safety
procedures for the rimfire AR's. OOPS, the bolts didn't lock back with the mag removed. Seeing this niche
market all sorts of products came into the rimfire AR market to give last round bolt lock back.

First I tried the AR 22 Bolt Catch designed to work with various versions of .22 AR magazines that had external
dimensions that fit the MilSpec magazine well. This part replaced the stock bolt catch which negated an easy
swap of the upper as it wouldn't work with a MilSpec CF BCG. I experienced very mixed reliability issues using
BD mags, which, BTW, had serious lack of longevity. Being as I like to have flexibility using a variety of
upper assemblies I felt  a need for something better.

That something better came from CMMG when they released the original version of their drop in bolt hold open adapter
that required a special follower for their magazines. Those followers would gouge the internal magazine follower channel
and cut into a screw hole causing the follower to hang up. The system worked but only after much fussing and
cussing. CMMG realized the product required improvement and they made some changes with a second;
modified adapter and all new mags. This system did work better and I successfully used it in many matches. Then
along came Old Man Peter and his Principle, which resulted in some heated arguments with RSO's when I had to
take a DQ because the system failed when I needed it most.

Just when I thought it was time to abandon the entire bolt hold open concept I saw here, in this forum, a member had
asked about the Booney Packer product. I had several S&W M&P 15-22 magazines on hand after my decision to
abandon the M&P 15-22 as a competitive rifle. I purchased the BP product and never looked back - it works that well.
It has NEVER failed. Period. The magazine's dimensional differences are compensated for by the adapter's mag well
being sized to work with the M&P magazine only. The only work I had to do was some of my M&P mags had a sonic
weld line that dragged in the mag well upon removal. A little sanding and the issue was solved.

As time goes on I have no regrets over all of the failed products, I learned a lot from the experience and just maybe my
experience will help someone like you. That will make it all worthwhile.

Ted
8/29/2013 9:00:26 AM EDT
[#10]
Thanks for taking the time to relate your experiences Ted, it's your kind of attitude that makes shooting sports fun for me.  I've always benefitted from mentors and the voice of experience.  I count myself lucky when they freely give the gift of their experiences.

Just when I'm thinking myself foolish for considering a "conversion" project, someone like you comes along to make me feel better about my pursuit.  Now instead of feeling like I'm on a fools mission of taking a reliable weapon, modifing its intended design in a huge way, and then expecting a rusult that is equally reliable... Well it still seems crazy!  But Crazy feels better than foolish...

The time and resources you and so many others pour into projects like this show that you obviously think "conversion" is a worth while pursuit.  And it seems you and many others have found a path to reasonable success.  The audacity of sticking with "crazy" ideas despite challenges is... To me, very worth while.

We all want "easy solutions".  Sometimes we have them, but it's foolish to be ignorant of the time, energy, and expense it takes to arrive at and enjoy "easy solutions".

Again, thank you Ted and everyone else who has the audacity to pursue their "crazy" interests and takes time to freely help others that share their passions.

At the very least, You have all earned bullets, beer,& the gratitude from those like myself who will spend more time shooting and less time cussing and fussing at the range.
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