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Posted: 1/9/2013 12:01:36 PM EDT
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I am new to this forum and maybe I am just not searching correctly but I could not find a threads on the subject. I looked through the range report threads to find mostly .22 in .223 accuracy test but few to none with dedicated uppers. The sad part seems that many conversion kits in .223 barrels are shooting better than my dedicated upper. Yea...that bad.
What level of accuracy are you guys getting with your dedicated .22 uppers? Are there any tricks to getting these things to shoot? First I tried AE 40 grain solids. These rounds have shot very well for me in every .22 firearm I ever shot. There is no 100 yard grouping to speak of and at 50 yards 10 shots plugged at about 4 inches. I tried some federal bulk pack today and I can hold the 10 on sr-1 at 50 yards. Given the price of these CMMG uppers I would think they shot better. So far I am relatively disappointed with my upper. I received it with a loose barrel nut that has since been torqued properly. So far I have a relatively expensive upper that doesn't perform worth a s**t. Bill |
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I am new to this forum and maybe I am just not searching correctly but I could not find a threads on the subject. I looked through the range report threads to find mostly .22 in .223 accuracy test but few to none with dedicated uppers. The sad part seems that many conversion kits in .223 barrels are shooting better than my dedicated upper. Yea...that bad. What level of accuracy are you guys getting with your dedicated .22 uppers? Are there any tricks to getting these things to shoot? First I tried AE 40 grain solids. These rounds have shot very well for me in every .22 firearm I ever shot. There is no 100 yard grouping to speak of and at 50 yards 10 shots plugged at about 4 inches. I tried some federal bulk pack today and I can hold the 10 on sr-1 at 50 yards. Given the price of these CMMG uppers I would think they shot better. So far I am relatively disappointed with my upper. I received it with a loose barrel nut that has since been torqued properly. So far I have a relatively expensive upper that doesn't perform worth a s**t. Bill Hey Bill, if you are just asking about our accuracy in general you may be surprised that groups can range from sub .25" center to center to about 1" or more, at 50 yards. 100 yards for .22lr is asking a lot especially from a non-competiton type weapon, but if there is zero group then something is really wrong. If you are asking us to try to diagnose what's affecting your particular accuracy issue, well, that's hard for us to do because we can't physically examine your upper. We don't know its history; is it new or used? Your issue sounds like a bad barrel, but you can consider some simple things to check out. You mentioned the barrel nut had to be tightened, now that's a red flag right there because there are right ways to tighten an AR's barrel nut that rely on several important tools to do the task without damaging your upper. You say it was tightened and torqued properly, so I assume that meant that an action block was used to ensure the upper wasn't deformed while the nut was torqued, and that the torque wrench used had been calibrated by a metrology lab to ensure it was accurate. If all is good here, then it's on to ammo. The single most important thing that you or anyone new to AR-22's can do to assure the best accuracy from your particular gun is to buy a wide selection of ammunition, from different manufacturers, and test each using a steady rest, at 25 yards. Take notes so you don't get things confused - mark your targets with time, wind conditions, brand, etc. Also, I assume you have a known good and reliable optic mounted, or at the very least, known good iron sights. Don't laugh, optics can and do go bad, rings and/or mounts can be defective, so you see there are many factors that can be responsible for the problem of poor accuracy. From what you have told us I'd say YOU really don't have to do anything other than pick up your phone and call CMMG Customer Service. They will listen and they will help, you don't have to handle this all on your own. Good luck, Ted |
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Every CMMG dedicated upper I have will shoot 1" or less with Wolf MT at 50 yards. Check the crown. I got a barrel from CMMG once that had a nasty crown and wouldn't group. Dave N I did exactly this tonight. I removed the flash hider and the crown in perfect condition to my unaided eye. Thick full rifling that extends evenly from the chamber and terminates sharply at the muzzle. Its perfect. I am truly dumbfounded. It's not like I am squabbling over a 1/4" here or there between different types of ammo. I am fighting for groups to go under 4 inches at 50 yards! The whole setup is tight including the sights and barrel. Its on my match lower which has a nice trigger and I threaded in a "match" front sight for a nice sight picture. I shoot with the rest under the rear-most portion of the barrel so as to exert as little upward pressure as possible. I flat out don't know. Of course I am going to try different ammo (when I can find a selection which is most frustrating) but I doubt that will make the difference I'm looking for considering how large the groups are to begin with. I have tried, federal auto match, federal bulk, american eagle HV 40 grain solids. Bill |
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I am new to this forum and maybe I am just not searching correctly but I could not find a threads on the subject. I looked through the range report threads to find mostly .22 in .223 accuracy test but few to none with dedicated uppers. The sad part seems that many conversion kits in .223 barrels are shooting better than my dedicated upper. Yea...that bad. What level of accuracy are you guys getting with your dedicated .22 uppers? Are there any tricks to getting these things to shoot? First I tried AE 40 grain solids. These rounds have shot very well for me in every .22 firearm I ever shot. There is no 100 yard grouping to speak of and at 50 yards 10 shots plugged at about 4 inches. I tried some federal bulk pack today and I can hold the 10 on sr-1 at 50 yards. Given the price of these CMMG uppers I would think they shot better. So far I am relatively disappointed with my upper. I received it with a loose barrel nut that has since been torqued properly. So far I have a relatively expensive upper that doesn't perform worth a s**t. Bill You mentioned the barrel nut had to be tightened, now that's a red flag right there because there are right ways to tighten an AR's barrel nut that rely on several important tools to do the task without damaging your upper. You say it was tightened and torqued properly, so I assume that meant that an action block was used to ensure the upper wasn't deformed while the nut was torqued, and that the torque wrench used had been calibrated by a metrology lab to ensure it was accurate. If all is good here, then it's on to ammo. Good luck, Ted Thanks for the reply and what you pointed out above is something that I haven't considered. I received the upper used and it was reported to have no more than 300ish rounds through the tube (the entire bore in impeccable). I didn't think about because I guess there is a level of trust I place in a gunshop that tells me they do gunsmith work on AR15s but it is possible they over torqued my barrel. I should have known better. I did confirm afterward that a breaker bar was used and not a not a torque wrench and of course there was certainly no metrology conversion. They did say they used a vice block and a barrel nut wrench. How can I tell if my upper receiver is over-torqued? Are my problems the result of a over-torqued upper? Bill edit: after my barrel was tightened i had to adjust the windage several clicks to the right. i really hope this doesn't mean what i think it means :( :( |
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I have little experience with dedicated uppers (I am a drop in guy myself) but I have some thoughts on your accuracy.
Not any of the high velocity stuff is going to be real impressive Usually going to standard velocity will help accuracy but will downgrade reliability . This degradation might be just a matter keeping a eye on cleanliness and lube or you might have some real issues if your unit is new and tight. In my experience Fed Automatch isn't really match ammo , just a small bit better than most high velocity types , CCI Std is good and Wolf is usually better . Wolf usually throws better groups but will toss a few flyers so if you are scoring targets they can be actually similar . The CCI is very consistent and the Wolf can vary depending on lot. The high end Eley match ammo's usually won't be any better than wolf and the are more spendy If you are running a standard AR trigger in your lower there is only so much you can expect as far as accuracy goes . A RRNM will help and will work fine in most rimfire guns , I run a Giselle service rifle trigger in my match lower . Some of the target AR triggers have a light hammer fall that will disappoint with a rimfire setup . Rimfire actually needs a fairly heavy hammer strike to be reliable and accurate Wind will kick your ass with rimfire shooting . Bullet speed is so slow the wind has more time to act on the bullet . Barrel and crown condition count and feed ramp and chamber dimensions that give good reliability can work against good accuracy . Good optics or good sights are a help and due to the slow speed technique like follow through is also important , As in all accuracy shooting a good solid rest along with good form and holding technique will show on paper. I am convinced that a certain percentage of the accuracy you read or hear about isn't average or repeatable but is some guy going out and shooting for a afternoon and his one lucky group is eyeballed and reported as his "look what my gun will do " group . Sometimes this involves throwing out a flyer or two that should have been included in the group 
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I am new to this forum and maybe I am just not searching correctly but I could not find a threads on the subject. I looked through the range report threads to find mostly .22 in .223 accuracy test but few to none with dedicated uppers. The sad part seems that many conversion kits in .223 barrels are shooting better than my dedicated upper. Yea...that bad. What level of accuracy are you guys getting with your dedicated .22 uppers? Are there any tricks to getting these things to shoot? First I tried AE 40 grain solids. These rounds have shot very well for me in every .22 firearm I ever shot. There is no 100 yard grouping to speak of and at 50 yards 10 shots plugged at about 4 inches. I tried some federal bulk pack today and I can hold the 10 on sr-1 at 50 yards. Given the price of these CMMG uppers I would think they shot better. So far I am relatively disappointed with my upper. I received it with a loose barrel nut that has since been torqued properly. So far I have a relatively expensive upper that doesn't perform worth a s**t. Bill You mentioned the barrel nut had to be tightened, now that's a red flag right there because there are right ways to tighten an AR's barrel nut that rely on several important tools to do the task without damaging your upper. You say it was tightened and torqued properly, so I assume that meant that an action block was used to ensure the upper wasn't deformed while the nut was torqued, and that the torque wrench used had been calibrated by a metrology lab to ensure it was accurate. If all is good here, then it's on to ammo. Good luck, Ted Thanks for the reply and what you pointed out above is something that I haven't considered. I received the upper used and it was reported to have no more than 300ish rounds through the tube (the entire bore in impeccable). I didn't think about because I guess there is a level of trust I place in a gunshop that tells me they do gunsmith work on AR15s but it is possible they over torqued my barrel. I should have known better. I did confirm afterward that a breaker bar was used and not a not a torque wrench and of course there was certainly no metrology conversion. They did say they used a vice block and a barrel nut wrench. How can I tell if my upper receiver is over-torqued? Are my problems the result of a over-torqued upper? Bill edit: after my barrel was tightened i had to adjust the windage several clicks to the right. i really hope this doesn't mean what i think it means :( :( It does suck when you pay for quality and you get let down. Bill, don't let it get you down, it's only metal and unlike bad health, we know how to easily fix metal. Exercise the CMMG Customer Service route if for no other reason than to eliminate their help as an option. As for how to tell if your upper got over-torqued? Having to crank in excess windage to the right is a tip off, but not "several clicks," which I assume you mean two 1/4 moa clicks? Usually an over torqued upper will result in an impact shift to the right of 1 to 2 full moa or more. But regretably, I know of no alignment gauge one could use to measure any dimensional error. Still, we're just guessing here that that is a problem. I'm confident you just have a bad barrel which is an easy fix for CMMG. But until they examine it we are just guessing and that doesn't cut it - you need to know. Ted |
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I am new to this forum and maybe I am just not searching correctly but I could not find a threads on the subject. I looked through the range report threads to find mostly .22 in .223 accuracy test but few to none with dedicated uppers. The sad part seems that many conversion kits in .223 barrels are shooting better than my dedicated upper. Yea...that bad. What level of accuracy are you guys getting with your dedicated .22 uppers? Are there any tricks to getting these things to shoot? First I tried AE 40 grain solids. These rounds have shot very well for me in every .22 firearm I ever shot. There is no 100 yard grouping to speak of and at 50 yards 10 shots plugged at about 4 inches. I tried some federal bulk pack today and I can hold the 10 on sr-1 at 50 yards. Given the price of these CMMG uppers I would think they shot better. So far I am relatively disappointed with my upper. I received it with a loose barrel nut that has since been torqued properly. So far I have a relatively expensive upper that doesn't perform worth a s**t. Bill You mentioned the barrel nut had to be tightened, now that's a red flag right there because there are right ways to tighten an AR's barrel nut that rely on several important tools to do the task without damaging your upper. You say it was tightened and torqued properly, so I assume that meant that an action block was used to ensure the upper wasn't deformed while the nut was torqued, and that the torque wrench used had been calibrated by a metrology lab to ensure it was accurate. If all is good here, then it's on to ammo. Good luck, Ted Thanks for the reply and what you pointed out above is something that I haven't considered. I received the upper used and it was reported to have no more than 300ish rounds through the tube (the entire bore in impeccable). I didn't think about because I guess there is a level of trust I place in a gunshop that tells me they do gunsmith work on AR15s but it is possible they over torqued my barrel. I should have known better. I did confirm afterward that a breaker bar was used and not a not a torque wrench and of course there was certainly no metrology conversion. They did say they used a vice block and a barrel nut wrench. How can I tell if my upper receiver is over-torqued? Are my problems the result of a over-torqued upper? Bill edit: after my barrel was tightened i had to adjust the windage several clicks to the right. i really hope this doesn't mean what i think it means :( :( As for how to tell if your upper got over-torqued? Having to crank in excess windage to the right is a tip off, but not "several clicks," which I assume you mean two 1/4 moa clicks? Usually an over torqued upper will result in an impact shift to the right of 1 to 2 full moa or more. But regretably, I know of no alignment gauge one could use to measure any dimensional error. Still, we're just guessing here that that is a problem. I'm confident you just have a bad barrel which is an easy fix for CMMG. But until they examine it we are just guessing and that doesn't cut it - you need to know. Ted Regarding the possibility of over torque on the barrel nut I am just worried that my upper receiver is permanently damaged. I had to put on several minutes of right windage. My sight is 1/2 moa and I think it was in the range of 4-8 clicks of adjustment. I'm going to talk to the local shop. I'm taking my upper, a used target, and a receipt. Bill |
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