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Posted: 1/5/2010 4:22:19 AM EDT
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I recently just purchased a TacSol M4 upper. I seem to be having two main problems.
1) The bullets will get crimped and stuck. 2) I have a lot of light primer strikes 
Now, I DO have a notched hammer. Would that be the cause for all of these issues? If so, which rounded hammer would be best? I have a RRA two stage trigger. It's not a dedicated lower, so it has to go both ways. Thanks, SCSchultz Edit: A third problem I've found was the hammer not cocking during a few cycles. I'm assuming this is most definitely due to a notched hammer. So, in all of these cases, what are my best options? |
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What ammo are you using? I can't read the head stamp. That's how Remington Golden Bullets look after failure to feed.
See if you can look into the upper with the dust cover open to see where the hammer comes into contact with the firing pin. If it's below center that's the problem with light strikes. Your Springs could be too heavy either on the hammer or the bolt recoil spring causing the non cocking problem or it could be the ammo quality. If you are using standard or sub velocity ammo that could be the problem too. Check for related TacSol or even Spike's tuning info too.....In the Industry Section.. SpecOps-13 |
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the ammunition used was two different kinds. blazer and federal value pack. my hammer happens to be a notched hammer. I ran CCI and it ran well. Tried Winchester bulk - not so much. Aguilla subsonic - not so much (fail to cycle). Told to use reduced pressure trigger springs. I figures I'll run 500-2,000 of something that does run before tweaking anything. Rem Golden - not a sugested ammo. Naturally I bough 8K in anticipation of a .22 upper 
Swap hammers - find something that runs (CCI) and run a few hundred before doing anything is my suggestion. |
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So, I've come to the conclusion after shooting it that the hammer was definitely an issue. Whether it is the only issue, I don't really know. I purchased a new hammer (rounded) from RRA. I'll go from there once it arrives. Thanks for the help guys. If anyone else has any insight, please chime in.
It also has been burping a few times. Sometimes it will shoot 2 or 3 bursts. I'm assuming this is because the hammer is not engaging all the way. Would this be a spring related issue, or simply the hammer? Edit: Last question, I promise: When I remove the rear take down pin, and use the front one as a pivot, it's very tight. It loosens, kind of like a compound bow when it breaks, the further you go. It's like there isn't enough clearance and it rubs on the lower receiver. Is this normal? |
| I didn't have good luck with winchester ammo either. Federal bulk & cci worked great and I do have a rounded hammer. The empty shells have very light strike marks but it seems to run fine with the right ammo. The only issue I have is the rear take down pin is extremely tight. I'm not sure if something is out of spec or what, but it is so tight that I have to take a wooden dowell to tap the pin out. Oh, I have an AGP lower with a Tac Sol upper. |
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No, that's not normal for the upper and lower to rub at the front pivot point. Something isn't right.
A dremel or small file may be needed to round the edge a little more so it will clear.. About the multiple fire problem. You are shooting Blazer, I've heard of some having trouble with it but not problems with multiple rounds following each other. The Federal bulk has a respectable velocity for the most part. Quite possible the hammer is not catching, as you mentioned. The only other thing it could be is a way too strong Hammer or Recoil Spring. I would try the new hammer before spring mods. Don't be shy about asking questions, none of us know everything. We're all learning... Good Luck SpecOps-13 |
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I recently just purchased a TacSol M4 upper. I seem to be having two main problems. 1) The bullets will get crimped and stuck. 2) I have a lot of light primer strikes http://imgur.com/z42tL.jpg The lower cartridge clearly shows evidence of mis-feeding and hanging up on the chamber mouth. Notice the cut in the nose of the bullet. The major deformation occurs when the bolt slams into the rear of the round after it's hung up on the chamber. With these sort of feeding problems, light primer strikes are also to be expected. Even rounds that are making it into the chamber are likely to be slightly deformed - enough that it holds the bolt open just a fraction. When the hammer falls, some energy is absorbed in slamming the bolt home before the remaining energy can act on the firing pin. I recommend polishing your feed ramp and chamber entry. Look for burrs or sharp edges which may be causing the soft lead from the nose of the bullet to get hung up. |
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I didn't have good luck with winchester ammo either. Federal bulk & cci worked great and I do have a rounded hammer. The empty shells have very light strike marks but it seems to run fine with the right ammo. The only issue I have is the rear take down pin is extremely tight. I'm not sure if something is out of spec or what, but it is so tight that I have to take a wooden dowell to tap the pin out. Oh, I have an AGP lower with a Tac Sol upper. Me too - works pretty well. |
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Well, here's some pictures of the front pivot area. http://imgur.com/iU9p3.jpg http://imgur.com/dPPNG.jpg http://imgur.com/xxpvD.jpg You can see the wear in the front and second picture. My other upper does not do this. Is this normal or expected with some ARs, or is my upper/lower out of spec? Thanks, SCSchultz 100% not correct - something is wrong - does it fit another lower better? |
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Well, here's some pictures of the front pivot area. http://imgur.com/iU9p3.jpg http://imgur.com/dPPNG.jpg http://imgur.com/xxpvD.jpg You can see the wear in the front and second picture. My other upper does not do this. Is this normal or expected with some ARs, or is my upper/lower out of spec? Thanks, SCSchultz 100% not correct - something is wrong - does it fit another lower better? I don't have another lower to try it on, but the hole drilled in the upper is definitely off center. I don't know whether to file it down or send it back. |
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Well, here's some pictures of the front pivot area. http://imgur.com/iU9p3.jpg http://imgur.com/dPPNG.jpg http://imgur.com/xxpvD.jpg You can see the wear in the front and second picture. My other upper does not do this. Is this normal or expected with some ARs, or is my upper/lower out of spec? Thanks, SCSchultz 100% not correct - something is wrong - does it fit another lower better? I don't have another lower to try it on, but the hole drilled in the upper is definitely off center. I don't know whether to file it down or send it back. Oh hell no - don't file shit - send it back! Seriously - you want a half-assed rifle you can never sell in good conscience? I sent a SA 1911 loaded back. I am not taking metal off a 1911. Seriously - they'll make it right with NO PROBLEM |
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I now have a RRA NM Two Stage Trigger with a rounded hammer. I'm getting the same exact problem. The majority of the shots are multiple fires and light primer strikes. What's my next step? I'm assuming it would be a new hammer spring, and if so, which one?
Thanks, Spencer |
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Well, here's some pictures of the front pivot area. http://imgur.com/iU9p3.jpg http://imgur.com/dPPNG.jpg http://imgur.com/xxpvD.jpg You can see the wear in the front and second picture. My other upper does not do this. Is this normal or expected with some ARs, or is my upper/lower out of spec? Thanks, SCSchultz How does the hole in the front pivot reference compared to another upper receiver that fits well with that lower? |
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Well, here's some pictures of the front pivot area. http://imgur.com/iU9p3.jpg http://imgur.com/dPPNG.jpg http://imgur.com/xxpvD.jpg You can see the wear in the front and second picture. My other upper does not do this. Is this normal or expected with some ARs, or is my upper/lower out of spec? Thanks, SCSchultz How does the hole in the front pivot reference compared to another upper receiver that fits well with that lower? Well, I sent it back for a replacement. The hole in the new upper was just as off as the last one. I didn't feel like going through the hassle of sending it back again, so as advised by Spec-Ops and Lon @ TS, I just filed the area down to where it wouldn't rub against it. It came out clean. I just need to put a finish on it. I was looking around at pivot holes on other standard AR uppers and it seems to be normal for a lot of uppers. I don't feel it's that big of an issue. |
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I now have a RRA NM Two Stage Trigger with a rounded hammer. I'm getting the same exact problem. The majority of the shots are multiple fires and light primer strikes. What's my next step? I'm assuming it would be a new hammer spring, and if so, which one? Thanks, Spencer The manufacturer advises against that particular trigger IIRC. Try a standard trigger and see if that helps. |
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I now have a RRA NM Two Stage Trigger with a rounded hammer. I'm getting the same exact problem. The majority of the shots are multiple fires and light primer strikes. What's my next step? I'm assuming it would be a new hammer spring, and if so, which one? Thanks, Spencer Seems like your kit is experiencing an extreme version of this. The very first photo shows evidence of the nose of the bullet hanging up on the chamber mouth, then being bent as the bolt tries to close. The chamber mouth needs to be smooth, with slightly radiused edges and a smooth transition from the feed ramp into the bore. The top inside surface of the chamber also needs to be smooth enough to allow the nose of the bullet to slide in, as any undue resistance can cause it to get deformed at the driving bands and results in failure to go fully into battery. This in turn can cause light strikes, failure to fire or case rupture. |
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I now have a RRA NM Two Stage Trigger with a rounded hammer. I'm getting the same exact problem. The majority of the shots are multiple fires and light primer strikes. What's my next step? I'm assuming it would be a new hammer spring, and if so, which one? Thanks, Spencer The manufacturer advises against that particular trigger IIRC. Try a standard trigger and see if that helps. I just bought a set of JPS3.5 springs. I'll give them a try first. If that fails, I suppose I'll get the parts needed for a single stage trigger. Quoted:
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I now have a RRA NM Two Stage Trigger with a rounded hammer. I'm getting the same exact problem. The majority of the shots are multiple fires and light primer strikes. What's my next step? I'm assuming it would be a new hammer spring, and if so, which one? Thanks, Spencer Seems like your kit is experiencing an extreme version of this. The very first photo shows evidence of the nose of the bullet hanging up on the chamber mouth, then being bent as the bolt tries to close. The chamber mouth needs to be smooth, with slightly radiused edges and a smooth transition from the feed ramp into the bore. The top inside surface of the chamber also needs to be smooth enough to allow the nose of the bullet to slide in, as any undue resistance can cause it to get deformed at the driving bands and results in failure to go fully into battery. This in turn can cause light strikes, failure to fire or case rupture. I'll do this tomorrow for the hell of it. I don't think it will solve the hammer not engaging all the way, though. |
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I'll do this tomorrow for the hell of it. I don't think it will solve the hammer not engaging all the way, though. Sorry, I missed the bit about the 2-3 shot bursts first time around. Those symptoms are usually due to springs (either the recoil spring and/or hammer spring), but can sometimes be caused by other issues such as the underside of the bolt rubbing on either the mag lips or the bolt catch. Conceivably you may also be experiencing weak ejection if the bolt isn't fully in battery when the gun fires. Some gas might be blowing past the casing instead of helping push the bolt back. I'd recommend working on the feeding/light strikes issue then move on to the cycling, but either way it probably won't hurt to cut a couple coils off the recoil spring. |
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Well, I replaced the hammer and trigger springs with the JPS3.5 springs. It's still shooting bursts, which is really annoying. I'll definitely work on the feed ramp and clean that area up tomorrow for the hell of it. I guess my next step is to cut some coils off the recoil spring? Is there a link to show how to do this properly?
Thanks, SCSchultz EDIT: If the cutting coils off of the recoil spring doesn't help, would shortening the buffer tube help? In theory wouldn't this allow the bolt to come back further, having more contact with the hammer? |
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File this area a little at a time until it pivots free. http://imgur.com/iU9p3.jpg Was your trigger working an your 556 AR upper? I'm running a RRA 2 stage with zero problems. (My RRA 556 lower) I've already filed the pivot area. It's good to go. Thanks. The trigger works fine with my 5.56 upper. Zero issues. |
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OK, I would call Tac sol before doing anything else.
I know a guy who was having feeding and stike trouble with his and we would find live rounds in the trigger group. he bought a dedicated lower because he wanted one anyway, he was going to send the whole thing to Tac Sol to tune but after getting the new lower the problems where GONE! Do you have an extra lower or a friend with one to test? |
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Quoted:Do you have an extra lower or a friend with one to test?
I sure don't. I don't mind doing the gunsmithing myself. I just don't know what's next. I've replaced the notched hammer with a rounded one and bought a set of lightened hammer and trigger spring. There doesn't seem to be a problem with cycling anymore. The issue is that it doesn't pass the last safety check. The hammer follows the carrier home. |
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Quoted:Do you have an extra lower or a friend with one to test?
I sure don't. I don't mind doing the gunsmithing myself. I just don't know what's next. I've replaced the notched hammer with a rounded one and bought a set of lightened hammer and trigger spring. There doesn't seem to be a problem with cycling anymore. The issue is that it shoots bursts (I'm guessing the hammer isn't locking & riding home?). Sounds like the hammer isn't going back enough for the disconnector to catch. Mine is running perfect with RRA NM just like your original set up.The RRA is notched in the back and not the front so it's not the same as the dreaded notched hammers. Very puzzling why some have problems and others do not. Maybe some bolts sit slightly higher. Again when my friend changed to a new complete lower ALL his problems went away. (extractions , light strikes, and feeds) Both had GI triggers. All I can say is try a GI trigger group or someones complete lower. |
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Quoted:Do you have an extra lower or a friend with one to test?
I sure don't. I don't mind doing the gunsmithing myself. I just don't know what's next. I've replaced the notched hammer with a rounded one and bought a set of lightened hammer and trigger spring. There doesn't seem to be a problem with cycling anymore. The issue is that it shoots bursts (I'm guessing the hammer isn't locking & riding home?). Sounds like the hammer isn't going back enough for the disconnector to catch. Mine is running perfect with RRA NM just like your original set up.The RRA is notched in the back and not the front so it's not the same as the dreaded notched hammers. Very puzzling why some have problems and others do not. Maybe some bolts sit slightly higher. Again when my friend changed to a new complete lower ALL his problems went away. (extractions , light strikes, and feeds) Both had GI triggers. All I can say is try a GI trigger group or someones complete lower. It seems to catch fine when cycled by hand. I haven't had the hammer ride back when being cycled by hand at all. I'm going to try cutting some coils off of the recoil spring. Is there a guide as far as doing this? I don't want to cut too much off. I'm shooting Federal Value Pack ammunition (36 grain). If I try a higher grained .22 long rifle bullet, would this prove that the recoil spring is to heavy for my ammunition? Unfortunately, I don't know anyone else with an AR15, so I could try it on a separate lower. Thanks, SCSchultz |
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I wouldn't cut any coils or mess with the buffer, these can shoot standard vel and should come back enough for the hammer. Blazer and Fed should work perfect and they do in mine and so does slow match ammo.
Are you holding the trigger in while cycling to to test for reset also? The trigger sounds like it doesn't pass the safety tests you do when dropping in a new trigger group. Someone brought up the mag pushing on the bolt, did you try other mags? I would call Tac Sol before doing any thing to the upper. Do you have a range you can go to and try someones lower? You'd be surprised at how willing people are to try the 22 .  It's important to see if the upper is the problem or its something else.
Try each trouble shooting problem one at a time and be methodical. |
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Let me just add that public stating anything about bursts in a public forum might give some alphabet agency ideas that could result in time in club fed.
So in all seriousness - you all need to get busy with some editing posts and abstain in the future from miss stating the issues you may be having. |
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Let me just add that public stating anything about bursts in a public forum might give some alphabet agency ideas that could result in time in club fed. So in all seriousness - you all need to get busy with some editing posts and abstain in the future from miss stating the issues you may be having. I would prefer to just get the issue resolved... The rifle fails the last safety check with the AR-22 upper but not my 5.56 upper. The hammer follows the carrier home. What work on a two stage trigger/upper needs to be done so that the hammer doesn't follow home? I would rather not have to buy a single stage trigger, as I just bought another two stage  .
Thanks, SCSchultz |
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Let me just add that public stating anything about bursts in a public forum might give some alphabet agency ideas that could result in time in club fed. So in all seriousness - you all need to get busy with some editing posts and abstain in the future from miss stating the issues you may be having. I would prefer to just get the issue resolved... The rifle fails the last safety check with the AR-22 upper but not my 5.56 upper. The hammer follows the carrier home. What work on a two stage trigger/upper needs to be done so that the hammer doesn't follow home? I would rather not have to buy a single stage trigger, as I just bought another two stage .
Thanks, SCSchultz It's got to be the bolt not racking the hammer back enough, I'll have to look at mine and see if I can figure out your possible problem. Call TS! |
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OK. So here's what I've done so far.
I removed the buffer (to see if it was because the bolt wasn't going back far enough), and it still failed the safety check. So, I don't feel it has anything to do with the recoil spring. Since the trigger group works flawlessly on my 5.56 upper, I decided to measure and compare the distance between the bottom of the bolt carrier and the center of pivot and takedown holes on both my 5.56 and .22 upper. The .22 bolt carrier sits much higher. Maybe the bolt carrier can't push the hammer down far enough due to this? What do you guys think? If this is the case, I'm assuming my only bet would be to order a single stage trigger. |
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I believe the failure to reset is from the notched hammer. The placement of the notch makes it where it does not go back far enough to reset. The rounded hammer sets up a touch higher. ETA: call TacSol and get another one though. I no longer have a notched hammer. I'll call TacSol again. They didn't return my phone call the first time
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| maybe its just me, but right off i think you make the assumption that you can just drop in a hammer and all should be good. imo not so as your now experiancing. yes there could other issues but get someone with experiance in smithing an ar trigger to look at it. i find it dubious that you could drop in any non notched hamemr into a 2 stage group and expect it to work. crissake any of you friggin ar numbnutz know anything at all about firearms? |
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maybe its just me, but right off i think you make the assumption that you can just drop in a hammer and all should be good. imo not so as your now experiancing. yes there could other issues but get someone with experiance in smithing an ar trigger to look at it. i find it dubious that you could drop in any non notched hamemr into a 2 stage group and expect it to work. crissake any of you friggin ar numbnutz know anything at all about firearms? As far as I'm concerned it is a drop in trigger... It works fine with my 5.56 upper. |
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So let me see if I understand correctly - the gun DOES pass a full function check when cycled by hand? i.e. the hammer goes back far enough to be captured by the disconnector. If so, the primary reason it wouldn't work the same when fired is because the recoil spring is too stiff. Cut off a couple coils and try again.
If it doesn't pass function check, you have bigger problems and really should get a gunsmith to take a look. |
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So let me see if I understand correctly - the gun DOES pass a full function check when cycled by hand? i.e. the hammer goes back far enough to be captured by the disconnector. If so, the primary reason it wouldn't work the same when fired is because the recoil spring is too stiff. Cut off a couple coils and try again. If it doesn't pass function check, you have bigger problems and really should get a gunsmith to take a look. It doesn't pass the safety check as far as the hammer following the bolt carrier home. |
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