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Posted: 4/15/2006 10:42:05 PM EDT
| OK, haven't been around here for a while, but I'm getting back into my ar's with the recent purchase of a brand new colt 6450 9mm ar. Picked this one up at a local gun store and couldn't resist the chance to own one of these NIB straight from Colt Defense. The gun came with two new 32 round steel mags. One problem....the gun has a double feed or jam of some sort every 7-8 rounds. Can't even shoot a full mag without some sort of problem. Ordered some promags from cdnn hoping for a different story.......no luck. Shooting winchester white 115 gr, remington umc 115 gr, 147 gr (forget the brand). Short answer is it's not an ammo related problem. Either the gun or mags. Is this AT ALL normal for a factory new gun, especially something manufactured for LE use?? I've read a few things about crappy Colt 9mm mags on here, but would appreciate more input on this subject. Also, will I get anywhere with Colt Defense's customer service if I send it back? I spent a fair chunk of change on this thing. I'd appreciate any advice. |
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I just got a NIB 6450 Sat. also. I tried 4 different loads in it: S&B WWB 122gr lead reloads w/4.0 of 231 115gr FMJ reloads w/6.3 of Unique All worked fine. The 124 lead was a truncated cone shaped bullet and they were getting battered going in the chamber, but all worked fine. I only tried one of my mags though. 
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Need some more specifics here. Two live rounds? One empty and one live round? |
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sounds like a mag problem I had with one of my NIW colts too. good way to test is to load up the mag then hold it in your fist like a club and smack the bottom down on your carpet tomahawk style a couple times. If rounds start popping out (like they did for me) then lose the mag on the EE. Folks are VERY willing to pay 40-45$ for these NIW double feed mags (as I called mine) and then they try and fix em and save a few bucks. Obviously, let em know what's up in the ad.... one thing, I never had this problem on pre-ban mags, only the LEO mags, and even then it was only 1 of 7 that I bought. Could be the lips, who knows. for 60$ I expect perfection though! |
| I'll try to be as specific as possible.......With the Colt mags it appears that two live rounds are feeding into the chamber - one of the rounds looks like it is hitting to the side of the chamber since the bullet is being pushed in about 1/3 the way, almost like someone smacked it with a hammer (i.e. the bolt). The other round is usually bouncing around near the ejector or even further back behind the mag well. When I clear it, two round always fall out after I eject the mag. The promags appear to be feeding above the chamber and usually produce single misfeeds with the hammer-smacked round look. Makes me wonder if there is something wrong with the placement of the mag block and not the magazines. |
same as me chief. It's a mag issue methinks. put em on teh EE at a slight loss with full disclosure and buy some more. I think Grant sells them though he's no longer here (CENSORED) for reasons (CENSORED) that (CENSORED) I don't know. GandRtactical.com I believe. |
| Thanks for the help chapper. $55 is a good price from what I've seen. The only other place I've seen them commercially advertised was in the shotgun news from Hoplite. This company doesn't have a web sight. Don't know if they are a good vendor, but the have them NIW for $59 and used $45. I just hope that if I order new Colt's that I don't get some that are clones of the ones that came with the gun......would really like some of the older 20 rounders, but I think I'd have better luck panning for gold in the mountains than finding these things anywhere. |
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You can also send it back to Colt, if you don't mind being without the gun for a month or two. They'll generally pick up the shipping on it too (reimbursing you for it). ETA: Mine has worked fine from the start, 2 mags came with, 4 more I bought, none double fed. |
I call hoplites weekly to check on those used ones, they NEVER have them, I doubt they ever have. I had some 20's when I was in NY, but sold them to a fellow NYer when I left to keep them in a ban state..... I am getting some colt cut uzi 20 rounders though. I've got 6 colt 32's (2 preban 4 LEO) for when teh SHTF, but I also have some RRA 32 rounders and now some uzi 20rounders as well. They don't hold the bolt open, but they are reliable as hell. |
| I'm thinking of going the Uzi mag route. I'd rather have the gun work and not hold the bolt open than jam and not work at all. I'm a bit worried that I might go broke finding good Colt mags.....guess I won't be ordering any used one from Hoplite. I really think this is a problem Colt should remedy, whatever the cause might be. I just don't know the service I might get since this gun is made by Colt Defense and not their commercial division. According to them, I shouldn't even own this gun. |
don't hestiate to call hoplite, you might catch them if they do come in who knows? I'll continue to call, but you could beat me to it! It's worth it to call, cause odds are the used ones may be pre-ban and I've found them to work better (or rather I've only had a problem with an LEO mag and have never had a problem with the prebans). also I think RRA might be producing 9mm BHO mags, constant rumor thrown around..... |
Depending on your urgency with the mags, you might hold off just a bit... there was talk of a manufacturer (active on the board here  ) who might be making 9mm mags soon.Also it might be productive to try the rifle with some other magazines to see if that cures the problem before purchasing new ones. 2 live rounds in the action does sound like a magazine related problem though. |
I heard that too. but I disagree with you over your prognosis. I had it and it was the mag. the rounds will spill out of these faulty mags if you bang them enough. the mags that don't double feed hold the rounds solid no matter what level of abuse I tried... |
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I have had several issues with the new Colt 32 rd mags , first five I bought 3 were bad ,, company I got them from made good on them but the replacements I got 2 were bad also .. they ended up in the trash ! Note .. The two 9mm Colts I own have never had a issue or failure of any kind with the pre-ban mags ! if you look at the pic I have attached you will see why ... New bad mag on the left & pre-ban on the right , notice now the rounds are stacked , inner dimension is off on the new one , gap between the 2nd and 3rd rd. 
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that happened to one of mine, I sold it to a guy on the EE like I said, told him teh full deal and he (I think) in the end fixed it and got himself a 40$ all but new colt 9mm mag. You could try and fix it of course, I'd assume that it's a feed lips issue, but I wouldn't know for sure. for 60$ I don't mess with it, if it works I leave it be, if it dont' I take a small hit and sell it. |
| I'm not much for home remedies on this sort of thing. I wouldn't want to trust my security on a mag that I know has been unreliable in the past. I wouldn't even want to plan a shooting trip with friends knowing the potential difficulties......it would be nice if the promags worked however - guess they might get sold on the EE too. |
BINGO - I would try to find some older mags. I have a 6450 that was made in 1995, and it has magazines that are parkerized and are a thick metal. If your magazine spewed rounds after tapping it on the floor, there are only three possiblities - either (a) the magazine was made with incorrect internal dimensions or feed lip bends or (b) made out of a flimsier sheet metal and the feed lips are flexing apart and not securing the rounds during the vibrations of bolt movement or (c) magazine sheet metal not properly heat treated and gives problem like (b). I'm betting Colt Defense is subcontracting their mags to somebody different than they used to. |
I loaded all 12 of my mags, since I just got my gun Wednesday, I haven't shot it yet, plan to Sunday morning. I got a minimum of 25 rds in each mag and took pics of them, the 2 on the left are the ones that came with the gun, factory new, the other 10 are LEO marked 6/98. Tell me what you think? Are my mags OK? Did I get lucky? .jpg) .jpg) .jpg) |
the ones i bought from the same guy you did all worked perfectly, the only problem i had was with the one that came with the rifle which wouldnt hold the bolt open on the last round but other than that it worked great. with the one mag it gave me an excuse to upgrade all of them with wolff springs, now they all work superb and my mag lula gets a work out. |
Thanks. I ordered a Maglula from GRTacticical, hope it comes in soon. Are you using the stock buffer that came with your gun? If so did you have a broken bolt catch yet? I plan to shoot the first mag with the stock buffer, then remove it then put the Slash Q Buffer in it and keep it in the gun. I noticed on the new mags they had the plastic follower as well and same lines (scratches?) that the LEO mags had, the ones that make the body of the mag look like a ruler. |
my mags were the same as the one i got with the rifle. with the buffer i am using the mgi rrb which greatly reduces the felt recoil and muzzle rise and from what others(who shoot full auto 9's all day) tell me the rifle is really quiet too (but i dont know how much of that is due to the buffer) never had a problem with the bolt catch but i think its a different design than what the others are referring to. the bolt catch on mine is just an extension to the std. bolt catch and if removed will function with 5.56 mags. |
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Range report! Out of 12 mags: 4 out of 12 functioned the bolt hold open device, 8 didnt  1 mag had a jam causes by an ejected case ejecting inside the upper receiver instead of the ejection port, after clearing, the gun, mag fed well 1 mag had a double feed as described in the first post, after clearing the jam, the rest of the rounds in the mag worked perfectly. I took an empty mag, put it in the gun, and pulled back the bolt, the bolt didnt hold open. With same mag in same gun I pressed up on it and did the same, and this time the bolt held open. I ran the first mag with the stock buffer, mags 2-12 used Slashes Q Buffer Slash's Q buffer Any ideas on how to tweak the bolt hold open function? Thanks |
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