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Posted: 10/24/2002 7:47:19 PM EDT
[#1]
I've seen the yahoo gallery with Arfan's and Gloftoe's pictures. It gives a general idea of what things should look like, and is a big help for someone in the process, but a basic instruction of what you have to do to make it work would be great. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/28/2002 8:27:46 PM EDT
[#2]
This is an awesome thread, thanks to all who have contributed!! Now I must have one of these to add to my collection!
Question: Do you need to use a 9mm recoil buffer? I understand you can modify a normal .223 hammer to work with the system, but I don't have a RR to play full auto with so that is why I was wondering about the buffer. A how to on setting up the Brownells 2 piece adapter would be very helpfull, as I can not justify what Colt and Uzi mags go for. I am picking up 20 Sten mags from TAPCO tommorow, and should have the parts from Brownells in a week. 
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/29/2002 11:04:55 PM EDT
[#3]
OK, picked up 20 Sten mags from TAPCO. Spent ~2 hours in the parts cleaner at work getting the damn grease off them. Soaked them in Simple Green to degrease. Dried them and spent another hour or so bead blasting them back to a very nice finish.
What is the link to the "Kitchen sink parkerizing" at?? Someone please post a link!!
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Posted: 10/30/2002 12:06:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Gloftoe]
[#4]
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=129242&w=searchPop
And another one: www.jouster.com/articles30m1/parkerizing.html (I'll be trying this with the 10 mags I'm going to shorten) -Gloftoe |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/30/2002 8:18:43 AM EDT
[#5]
Thanks. I guess I will just leave my bead blasted parts in the degreaser until I get the chems to do the repark.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/1/2002 8:53:34 PM EDT
[#6]
I just recieved my 2 piece magwell adapter today!! $92.58 including shipping thanks to my friendly local FFL!! Time to starrt grinding the back piece and setup some measurements for the front!!
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Posted: 11/7/2002 1:38:52 PM EDT
[#7]
Well, I've put together an informational text/pic file (Word Document) about modifing the JRW Block for Sten use. It has some pics, more descriptions and some more numbers.
It's fairly large, so I don't think posting the text w/ the images would work.....(could)... so I'm just emailing it to anyone who will ask for it. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/7/2002 4:54:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Pops]
[#8]
This is my sten conversion unit that my dad gave me! I had to borrow his camera (like everything else) to take the picture.
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Posted: 11/7/2002 5:06:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Damn, Pops! Give us some details on that sucker. It looks pretty good!
-Gloftoe |
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USA
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Posted: 11/7/2002 8:28:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Pops]
[#10]
My dad had gotten a 2 piece mag block (I think $50) conversion and the screws were locked up tight so he messed around and made his own front piece and used the original back piece. I bought a used 2 piece and had the same problem with my front piece on so he modified it.
The pictures show that he drilled from the bottom right to about two thirds up on the left side. tighten the 1" long 8X32 cap screw and it jams the piece in place. I don't have my dad's good calipers but I think I measured the thickness (front to back) at .473 just below the ramp and .468 just above the bevel at the bottom. My calipers measure it as 15/32" thick and 29/32" wide. He didn't bother trying to save the set screws in his front piece or in mine because we could not get them to break free. I think you might know my dad, he goes by ar_fan and I think he got the idea for his conversion from you! |
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Posted: 11/7/2002 8:56:54 PM EDT
[#11]
 Alright.. I feel stupid now.-Gloftoe |
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Posted: 11/7/2002 11:49:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kaliburz]
[#12]
Pops,
Sweet!!!! I take it you milled it or (other)? That a spray on finish? Well, I copied those pics and will add it to the photo gallery (why not?) ar_fan .......another...... Well, the "ar fan"'s seem to like to build blocks.... (ar_fan and AR-fan) Edit- I added your 3 pics and your descriptions. By the way, Bushy lowers are tight, so how does the Sten fit in the Bushy? What method did you use to mark the mag catch location? Jam it up and mark or went by "numbers"? So, so far the list (that I know of)of "modified blocks"/Sten block to Sten use are: medicmike (scratch built) Gloftoe (mod) Kaliburz (mod) AR-fan (mod/scratch built) ar_fan (mod/scratch built) Pops (mod) and I think maybe one or two more.... and "a few" pending....I think. Lowers that block have been used and upperss Cavalry Arms (ASA) Kaliburz RRA (RRA) Gloftoe, AR-fan (upper unknow) Bushmaster (?) ar_fan, Pops |
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Posted: 11/8/2002 5:04:13 AM EDT
[#13]
I have a proto set almost ready. These I have done up from scratch.
I am still waiting on a colt upper and magblock set for testing. I have decided to copy the original colt ejector and location for compatibility purposes. This way replacement ejectors can be used from other sources. Once I know they work, I'm going to run off several sets as there are already 7 requests for these locally. I'll post pics when done. And we will be testing in receivers by PWA, SGW, DPMS, SSM&E, Rock River, and also the Castle arms nylon receiver. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/8/2002 7:41:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Pops]
[#14]
Kaliburz,
Actually my mags fit the same in my lower as they do in my dad's. I think my front block is thinner than his but I don't have the measurements since he did all the work. He told me that the sten mags come in various sizes, some are a little deeper than others so I just give the tight ones a little squeeze in a vise and they fit perfect, I think they call them drop-free mags. AR-fan is my dad, I just typed his handle wrong, to me he's "Dad". Since I can take my mag block parts out I spray them when they get scratched up with some paint my dad got from Brownells. Well my job transfer came through so I want to wish you all the best of luck in all your endeavors. I guess I'm out of here. |
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Posted: 11/8/2002 3:00:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Yup, now I feel stupid too. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 11/8/2002 9:35:58 PM EDT
[#16]
I would like a copy of those instructions if you could send them to me. My email is [email protected]
Thanks |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 11/9/2002 8:31:17 AM EDT
[#17]
Would like a copy of your mag block conversion instructions, thanks. [email protected]
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Posted: 11/20/2002 3:17:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Hey Pops, what would your dad charge me for a reworked set of blocks like the ones you pictured?
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Posted: 11/20/2002 3:21:21 PM EDT
[#19]
Me too. I worked out a way to protect my precious mag well. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/20/2002 4:55:14 PM EDT
[#20]
Finnally my 9mm upper is here. I will dry run it tonight and see how well the Sten mag will feed it with my modified magwell adapter. Hopefully all will go well and I can range test it monday!!
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/20/2002 6:42:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AR-fan]
[#21]
J_E_D & Boom_Stick,
I'm sorry but this was kind of a family thing. I am going to make another set because I'm have another upper I'm working on. If you do get a set (2 piece) magblock conversion it's not to difficult to make the Sten conversion. The rear piece gets the flaps cut all the way back flush with the face of the rear piece. The front half is the one that gets the major trim job. The thing to keep in mind is "Protect those set screws". I believe Kaliburz has made up a procedure to follow. My RRA lower was bought specifically for pistol caliber use and the front and back mag blocks are held in place with button head screws -- one in the front piece and one in the rear piece. My son has a Bushmaster and he didn't want to drill any holes in it. HighlandMac, I would like to know how your system works out -- please let us know. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/20/2002 10:27:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Ok, the 1st mag I had "notched" before the upper arrived is basically a total loss. I cut it way too low and every round would slam into the bottom of barrel extention and miss the hole by a whole width of a bullet. I cut a notch into another mag, damn good thing I bought 20 from TAPCO, and it seems like it works with me hand cycling the bolt. Only one problem, the last round slams into the barrel extention. All 31 of the ones above it go into the hole fine but that damn last round wont!! I dont know what would cause it and I have not ried a different follower yet to see if that is the problem.
From what it looks like the mag needs to nearly get hit by the bolt for it to feed correctly. Also I do not see any help from the feed ramp at all, basically the front of the bullet is no where near the ramp. I hope to go shoot it soon and see how it works under live fire. One last thing is I was using some federal lawman hollow points to test feed it. Could that be a problem? Is anyone using HP ammo in these? Any input would be apreciated. [beer] |
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Posted: 11/20/2002 10:51:10 PM EDT
[#23]
I haven't tried HPs in it, but I don't see why they wouldn't work. As far as I can see, the only thing the feed ramp does, is bounce the round upwards, so it makes it into the chamber. Kaliburz pointed out to me that the feed ramp also "centers" the bullet so that it hits the chamber in the middle. I do know that it doesn't work without it [:D] Good luck, and keep us updated!
-Gloftoe |
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Posted: 11/21/2002 12:29:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kaliburz]
[#24]
Originally Posted By HighlandMac: Ok, the 1st mag I had "notched" before the upper arrived is basically a total loss. I cut it way too low and every round would slam into the bottom of barrel extention and miss the hole by a whole width of a bullet. I cut a notch into another mag, damn good thing I bought 20 from TAPCO, and it seems like it works with me hand cycling the bolt. Only one problem, the last round slams into the barrel extention. All 31 of the ones above it go into the hole fine but that damn last round wont!! I dont know what would cause it and I have not ried a different follower yet to see if that is the problem. From what it looks like the mag needs to nearly get hit by the bolt for it to feed correctly. Also I do not see any help from the feed ramp at all, basically the front of the bullet is no where near the ramp. I hope to go shoot it soon and see how it works under live fire. One last thing is I was using some federal lawman hollow points to test feed it. Could that be a problem? Is anyone using HP ammo in these? Any input would be apreciated. [beer] Congrats. [img]http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/1syellow1.gif[/img][img]http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/jump_clap.gif[/img][img]http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/clap.gif[/img] That 1st mag maynot be a total loss. My 1st mag notch was too low..mag too high. Take the dremel and start cutting the top of the notch, to lower the mag. The mag will look funny, but it'll still work (just don't rest the rifle on the mag). I tried hand cycling w/ plastic dummy rounds. Some fed, some didn't. But when I tried live fire...it worked like a charm. Your spring might be very strong and that's why the last round is not going in...live fire is the only way to find out. Remember, the "method" that works to notch the mags... With the blocks installed and upper on. Move the mag catch out of the way. Put Sten mag in, pushing it until it hits the bolt. Cycle bolt so that you know it still moves while holding mag in place. Take nail, sharp object and trace the outline of the mag catch hole onto the mag. There, it is positioned. Cut the outline. With my 1st butched mag (that I got to work, it was my test mag), I was able to feed hollow points. I don't recall the type, but they were hollow points. Fed and worked just fine. Email or post some pics if you can. More to add to the "family". [img]http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/jump3.gif[/img] |
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Posted: 11/21/2002 12:42:37 PM EDT
[#25]
I saw this suggested in another thread: if you cut one side off an RRA block, would it leave room for a sten to fit?
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Posted: 11/21/2002 1:16:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Nope. Uzi and Colt mags are not as "deep" as sten mags. Sten mags are longer front to back than Uzi and colt mags, hence the need to mill the front block down to reduce its depth.
-Gloftoe |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2002 3:02:46 PM EDT
[#27]
Will I need a 9mm buffer since I dont have a FA gun? I would think it doesnt matter in semi to have the normal buffer correct me if I am wrong.
[beer] |
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Posted: 11/21/2002 3:28:26 PM EDT
[#28]
I'm running a standard .223 hammer and .223 buffer and buffer spring (all from RRA). Works just fine.
-Gloftoe |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2002 4:36:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Gloftoe,
Did you modify the .223 hammer at all? I got the 9mm buffer just to slow things down and it works great with the Winchester white box of 9mm ammo. I put the original .223 buffer back in just for the heck and was a bit surprised at how much more force the spent shells were ejected with. With the 9mm buffer and shooting off a bench the shells all land right at 9 or 10 feet directly to the right of the rifle in nice little pile. |
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Posted: 11/21/2002 5:02:34 PM EDT
[#30]
Sounds like I need to get one of those buffers. Using the .223 buffer I was spitting spend brass at the guy 6 stations down.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2002 6:03:17 PM EDT
[#31]
SMProud,
You described it a lot better than I could. There is also a difference when I shoot [u]off-hand[/u]. With the same 9mm buffer the shells eject 45 degrees to the right and to the front. At the indoor range I don't get shells bouncing off the little side panels. With the .223 buffer I have to be good at ducking. Now my upper is "broken in" but for somebody with a tight gun it might be better to start with a .223 buffer. |
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Posted: 11/21/2002 7:33:53 PM EDT
[#32]
AR-fan, I didn't modify my hammer at all. The one I got from RRA (both of them, in fact) don't have that "hook" as seen below:
[img]http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/hammers/ar15_std.gif[/img] They both look like this: [img]http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/hammers/ar15_early.gif[/img] Apparently if you have one like the first picture, you're bolt will lock up tight when you cycle the action. SteyrAUG stated that he had to drift out his trigger pin to free everything up. HTH, -Gloftoe |
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Posted: 11/21/2002 8:23:32 PM EDT
[#33]
That bottom hammer is what mine looks like...most of them.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2002 8:38:05 PM EDT
[#34]
OK, I squeezed the follower in the vice just a tiny bit to bring the front of the last round in the mag up. BINGO all rounds will cycle fine by hand!! I have a sneaky feeling once I get to the range I am going to be wearing the shit eating grin you others have!! [uzi]
[beer] |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2002 8:46:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AR-fan]
[#35]
Man, was that stupid of me -- [:I]
I'm using a RRA lower also. I didn't even really look at the hammer I just poped it out and droped in the 9mm hammer. I just checked the hammer I removed and you are right. All my others have the (I think) newer design. Don't tell my kid -- he ran his through the grinder, I should've given him mine! [:K]--->me |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2002 8:53:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AR-fan]
[#36]
HighlandMac,
Good going dude! [beer] If they'll feed they'll fire! |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/23/2002 12:35:55 AM EDT
[#37]
Ok I have 2 mags ready for range time now. Both will feed by hand with the mag pointed at 12, 3,6, and 9 oclock. That is my test. Also I found a good way to mark the mags to cut the release. Just insert an uncut mag with no spring or follower into the lower. Have the upper on it and the bolt closed. Push the mag to the point where it touches the bolt and then mark it. When you grind out the release hole just make sure the top cut goes just a hair over your mark and it works fine!!
[beer] |
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Posted: 11/24/2002 1:08:38 PM EDT
[#38]
Hey guys this might be a dumb question but I have to ask. My wife just bought me a pre-ban Colt Sporter 9mm. I have no experience with pistol caliber rifles. If I am reading this thread correctly am I going to have to spend $100+ for a Colt mag for this rifle? It sounds like I can't use Sten mags in it but what about UZI mags? If so how hard are they to modify?
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Posted: 11/24/2002 1:47:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Gloftoe]
[#39]
Originally Posted By NightSniper: Hey guys this might be a dumb question but I have to ask. My wife just bought me a pre-ban Colt Sporter 9mm. I have no experience with pistol caliber rifles. If I am reading this thread correctly am I going to have to spend $100+ for a Colt mag for this rifle? It sounds like I can't use Sten mags in it but what about UZI mags? If so how hard are they to modify? Here's the skinny, and if anyone can think of anything else, chime in! Colt FACTORY, preban 9mm mags for a 9mm AR15 are either 25(?) or 32 rounders. They have the feature that allows the bolt to be held open after the last round is fired (just like a 5.56 AR15). These mags fetch a PREMIUM when you're looking for mags to buy. Modified Uzi mags also work in the "standard" Colt system. They are modified by cutting a mag catch into the side, and that's it. They are either 25 or 32 rounders, but do NOT feature the last round bolt hold-open like the Colt mags do. They can be found for much cheaper than factory Colt mags. Does this rifle have the mag block pinned in? I guess if you got a wild hair up your ass, you could remove the pins, remove the block, modify it to use Stens, and then re-pin it. [}:)] Of course, all the Colt purists would chastize you till the day you die, and you're re-sale value of the gun will most probably go down. But hell, for $2.00 mags that function 100%, it's something that I'd surely do! [:D] HTH -Gloftoe |
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Posted: 11/24/2002 3:10:43 PM EDT
[#40]
You are correct it is pinned in place by Colt. I will probably try to modify the UZI mags. I really would like to keep the gun as is. Can you cut the mag catch with a dremel tool?
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Posted: 11/24/2002 3:24:42 PM EDT
[#41]
With my Sten mags, I started out cutting the catch with a drill, and then finishing up with a dremel carbide cutting bit. But I had 40 mags to do, so I had the rest milled at the local machine shop. I imagine that Uzi mags could be done the same way. Only way to tell is to try, though.
-Gloftoe |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2002 8:21:08 AM EDT
[#42]
[size=4][b]RANGE REPORT - Thanksgiving: [/b][/size=4]
Perfect!!! I ran 2 mags that I had the release cut into and all went well!! Not a hiccup, no problems at all. I ran the first mag slow fire and got the sights fairly close to zero. The second mag about halfway through wife calls me to get back to the house for dinner so I blew through that one with no problems either. The shit eating grin was large. [bounce] This was a great project. Now I need to get the rest of the mag releases cut in my other ~38 Sten mags!! Thanks for everyones help. My setup: RRA 9mm carbine w/midlength hand guards A2 RRA lower JRW 2 piece magwell adapter from brownells Unlike many others, I left the "wings" on the front peice of the adapter to help take up some of the space in the front of the magwell since the Stens are tapered in front. I will get pictures to Kaliburz when I can find where the hell my wife packed our digital camera!! [beer] |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2002 2:10:45 PM EDT
[#43]
Highland,
I was hoping you could tell me how you modified the front piece. I got an old used magwell conversion set and it didn't have the ears/wings/flaps on the front, all that was on the rear piece. I looked in the Brownell's catalog at the two piece and I'll be darned, I never noticed the flaps on the front piece. Do you have access to a mill that will shave the metal off the front and leave the flaps? |
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Posted: 11/29/2002 2:17:02 PM EDT
[#44]
[img]http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/jump3.gif[/img] [img]http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/jump_clap.gif[/img][img]http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/thumbs.gif[/img]
Congrats HighlandMac.... welcome to the "group" (hee, hee, hee). |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2002 11:32:48 PM EDT
[#45]
I have an old 2pc magwell conversion. It was made by Weaver according to the person I bought it from. My problem is I can not trim the front side of the front block because both set screws are on that side. I'm a graduate of "WECSOG" and all I have is a dremel, electric drill, vise and some files.
Any suggestions ... Booker |
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Posted: 11/30/2002 12:58:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kaliburz]
[#46]
booker3557,
How much material is there in front of the set screws? The final thickness of the front has to be 0.473" (0.470-0.475"). Most block fronts are 0.651"; so that's about 0.181"-0.176" to be removed total. Gloftoe had the mag side of the ramp/block milled, which exposed half of the post that secured the ramp. But his works fine and is still held in securely. The quickest and simplest method, is to go to a gunsmith w/ a mill and tell him to mill it to the 0.473" (or what ever you feel is "tight" enough for your mag well). Tell the gunsmith to mill as much from the front (barrel side); so as long as the setscrews are not compramised. After that, have the rest milled from the mags side of the front block. If you have a way of taking a pic and posting, might give an idea how close to the front the set scres really are. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2002 2:46:00 AM EDT
[#47]
Kaliburz,
My front block measures .675", which I have to trim at least +/- .20". The set screwa are very close to the edge. The most I can trim from the front is .03". The rest has to taken off the mag side. Hopefully there will enough room so I don't mess up the feed ramp pin. I'll try looking for somebody with a mill. Thanks for you help. |
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Posted: 11/30/2002 3:11:29 AM EDT
[#48]
booker3557,
That's a thick front. How thick is the back? My ASA one piece and the JRW measure about 0.395" and .0385" (+/-0.002"), respectively. The average for a Sten mag thickness is 1.525". I used the outside dimention of the ASA as an overall number for the magwell opening (2.379"). Added the Sten (1.525") and the back block (0.385") and front (0.660") for a total (2.570"). To get how much to remove from the front(2.570"-2.379"= 0.191"). So, the front block (in this example) has to be 0.660"-0.191"=0.469" For some "room", I made that number 0.473" and it's a little loose, but it depends on the magwell. Tighter magwells well, ya know, it'll be tighter. Gloftoe has some pics out there of how much was milled from the ramp post. Looks like half in the pics, but it held. He filed a new "ramp" in and well, it worked fine. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2002 3:50:28 AM EDT
[#49]
Kaliburz,
The rear block measures .385. Using your meausurements, I have to take out a total .206. I'll start with trimming .190 from the front and let you know. Thanks again. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2002 8:05:15 AM EDT
[#50]
When I did mine I left the "wings" on the front piece. I did not have access to a mill so I used a hand file and Dremmel to do it. I took as much as I could off the fronside short of screwing up the set screws. The rest came off the mag side while leaving the "wings" un-touched. I did it with the feed ramp removed and after I cut it down to the width I needed I started filing the feed ramp pin and reshaped the feed ramp. It all can be done in about 3 hours if you put your mind to it. Good luck!!
[beer] |
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