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AS Designs ARHK (Page 13 of 14)
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Originally Posted By mini14jac: I mentioned this waaaaay back when ASD announced that they were holding release of their trigger pack until it would work in 5.56 guns. The responses to my post seemed to indicate that a lot of guys wanted them to wait for the multi caliber compatibility. I suspect there are 5-10 times more people with 9mm clones than 5.56 guns. ASD could have made a significant amount of money by now selling a MP5 version while working on other projects. I know RB has made some cash in the last few months. Whatever. I’ve got two MP5s with RB packs and they work great. Originally Posted By mini14jac: Originally Posted By Capt-Planet: Yeah, but I don't want that. I just want an MP5 pack that isn't morally corrupt and maintains the look of the lower. I mentioned this waaaaay back when ASD announced that they were holding release of their trigger pack until it would work in 5.56 guns. The responses to my post seemed to indicate that a lot of guys wanted them to wait for the multi caliber compatibility. I suspect there are 5-10 times more people with 9mm clones than 5.56 guns. ASD could have made a significant amount of money by now selling a MP5 version while working on other projects. I know RB has made some cash in the last few months. Whatever. I’ve got two MP5s with RB packs and they work great. It still amazes me how many cockle RB balls even after knowing how horrible they are. Instant gratification mentality over principals I guess.  I'll be waiting for AS Designs. 
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Originally Posted By s3igu2: We held the release until it functioned correctly in all platforms and calibers, not just 556. I don't understand why anyone would want us to make a worse product overall just to get it a few months faster. Sure you might not ever use it in the larger calibers, but you still benefit from the additional testing and the added durability, and who knows, maybe one day you might want to try it in something other than an MP5. Also are we then expected to offer some sort of upgrade kit for the people who bought ARHK early (what if thats not possible)? Are we also expected to support multiple versions of ARHK long term? How are all the people who bought an MP5 only version of ARHK going to feel if 5 months later a version comes out that works in all platforms, including MP5s? I just don't see how this benefits the customer at all other than being a few months faster, it just complicates things and limits our capacity long term for other projects, having to deal with 2 entire versions of ARHK. Originally Posted By s3igu2: Originally Posted By mini14jac: I mentioned this waaaaay back when ASD announced that they were holding release of their trigger pack until it would work in 5.56 guns. The responses to my post seemed to indicate that a lot of guys wanted them to wait for the multi caliber compatibility. I suspect there are 5-10 times more people with 9mm clones than 5.56 guns. ASD could have made a significant amount of money by now selling a MP5 version while working on other projects. I know RB has made some cash in the last few months. Whatever. I’ve got two MP5s with RB packs and they work great. We held the release until it functioned correctly in all platforms and calibers, not just 556. I don't understand why anyone would want us to make a worse product overall just to get it a few months faster. Sure you might not ever use it in the larger calibers, but you still benefit from the additional testing and the added durability, and who knows, maybe one day you might want to try it in something other than an MP5. Also are we then expected to offer some sort of upgrade kit for the people who bought ARHK early (what if thats not possible)? Are we also expected to support multiple versions of ARHK long term? How are all the people who bought an MP5 only version of ARHK going to feel if 5 months later a version comes out that works in all platforms, including MP5s? I just don't see how this benefits the customer at all other than being a few months faster, it just complicates things and limits our capacity long term for other projects, having to deal with 2 entire versions of ARHK. The vast majority of your customers understand. Late and good is better than on time and shitty. |
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Originally Posted By ELittlefield: The vast majority of your customers understand. Late and good is better than on time and shitty. 100% this. I'm excited to get one, but I've gone my whole life without the ARHK just fine. Another couple months is whatever. If someone needs a reliable FRT RIGHT NOW just for an MP5, there is an option for that. The ARC was worth waiting for so I have a sneaky suspicion this will be too. |
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To play devils advocate a little. I have always heard the old saying "when you try and make something do too many things, it does none of them well". Sometimes I worry that trying to make it do too much, may add un needed complication and possible issues. I do wonder if it would have been better to make a couple different versions. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: To play devils advocate a little. I have always heard the old saying "when you try and make something do too many things, it does none of them well". Sometimes I worry that trying to make it do too much, may add un needed complication and possible issues. I do wonder if it would have been better to make a couple different versions. FRT could be different in this aspect 
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Originally Posted By s3igu2: We held the release until it functioned correctly in all platforms and calibers, not just 556. I don't understand why anyone would want us to make a worse product overall just to get it a few months faster. Sure you might not ever use it in the larger calibers, but you still benefit from the additional testing and the added durability, and who knows, maybe one day you might want to try it in something other than an MP5. Also are we then expected to offer some sort of upgrade kit for the people who bought ARHK early (what if thats not possible)? Are we also expected to support multiple versions of ARHK long term? How are all the people who bought an MP5 only version of ARHK going to feel if 5 months later a version comes out that works in all platforms, including MP5s? I just don't see how this benefits the customer at all other than being a few months faster, it just complicates things and limits our capacity long term for other projects, having to deal with 2 entire versions of ARHK. If I bought an MP5-only version a few months earlier than the all-calibers version I would expect that I would get what I paid for and that the manufacturer would incorporate lessons learned from the release of the MP5-only version into the new iterations. I wouldn't expect there to be an MP5-only version in perpetuity if the statement was put out that the goal is to eventually be an all-calibers version. If there was a manufacturing defect that would normally get it replaced with a new one but the MP5-only version was phased out, I'd expect to get it replaced with the all-calibers version. But I wouldn't expect an upgrade just because a new version was released. If I want to put a trigger in a '53 but I had bought the MP5 version I'd probably just buy an additional trigger. Of course, I also expect that when a timeline is put out in public that the timeline is actually realistic and a plan exists to adhere to that timeline. I'm not a fan of waiting until the timeline has passed and then replacing the date on the public statement. I'd also rather put money in ASDesign's pocket now and get ahead of any potential legal issues, be it a lawsuit or legislation. I will never buy a RB product. |
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Originally Posted By Bye_Felicia: Short sighted people who need it now should be ignored. It's less of an "I need it now" and more of a "the product was shadow delayed and the justification eventually put out for the delay is for a complication that I have no interest in using". "Our refrigerator is coming out in June!" Nice. I need to cool my food. *July* "Our refrigerator is now delayed until September so we can add wifi capability to the refrigerator!" I don't need wifi on my refrigerator... "Shill!" |
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Originally Posted By s3igu2:I don't understand why anyone would want us to make a worse product overall just to get it a few months faster. Well people in Kolorado are no longer potential customers because you missed your initial promises, so it's not "get it a few months faster" it's "get it at all". |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: To play devils advocate a little. I have always heard the old saying "when you try and make something do too many things, it does none of them well". Sometimes I worry that trying to make it do too much, may add un needed complication and possible issues. I do wonder if it would have been better to make a couple different versions. In this case with ARHK specifically, all versions would still be the same thing no platform is being compromised on in terms of function for other platforms to be supported. It's more along the lines of this part needs to hold up to 308, but it being able to hold up to 308 has no negative impact on the MP5s. Also tbh the larger caliber stuff, once we worked out the durability and how the parts interact with each carrier correctly, it was relatively simple, the only platform that could be blamed most for the delays would be the MP5K as it's by far the hardest platform to get working correctly. |
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Originally Posted By HKH: That’s wild Who woulda thunk it? That baby K was more of a bear than a 51k or 21! Never would have considered that. With the K, it's not so much durability, the durability work was the larger caliber / platforms which was time consuming to work out but not necessarily hard, but in terms of the actual function, like making sure ARHK runs well, the K with all the ammo types, locking pieces, and suppressors is by far the hardest to get right. The Ks basically require near perfection in terms of the function of arhk. |
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Originally Posted By s3igu2: With the K, it's not so much durability, the durability work was the larger caliber / platforms which was time consuming to work out but not necessarily hard, but in terms of the actual function, like making sure ARHK runs well, the K with all the ammo types, locking pieces, and suppressors is by far the hardest to get right. The Ks basically require near perfection in terms of the function of arhk. This is super interesting to follow. Can you comment on the easiest angle locking piece to work with on the MP5K type platform from these experiments? |
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Originally Posted By fordkicksass: This is super interesting to follow. Can you comment on the easiest angle locking piece to work with on the MP5K type platform from these experiments? So assuming the bolt gap is in spec, the full size MP5s are easy just run a 100 degree, can or no can, and all ammo types. Don't try and run a 90 in the full size, just make sure the bolt gap is in spec and run a 100 degree, ROF should be around 800 +/- 50. Now for the K things are mostly the same with some exceptions, for all the Ks I tested the best LP regardless of ammo type and can or no can was the 100 degree, that's where I got the normal 900 ROF suppressed and perfect reliability unsuppressed and suppressed. Where the K gets wonky is when people try and correct an out of spec bolt gap by using a lower degree LP, or using an out of spec LP that causes an out of spec bolt gap. The best advice I can give is buy a 100 degree LP if you don't already have one installed, check the bolt gap to verify it's in spec, and then run a mag and verify the ROF is around 900 RPM +/- 50 suppressed or unsuppressed. The only time you should really consider trying a 90 degree or a 80 degree is when you plan to exclusively shoot 147 grain or higher ammo suppressed. |
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Originally Posted By s3igu2: So assuming the bolt gap is in spec, the full size MP5s are easy just run a 100 degree, can or no can, and all ammo types. Don't try and run a 90 in the full size, just make sure the bolt gap is in spec and run a 100 degree, ROF should be around 800 +/- 50. Now for the K things are mostly the same with some exceptions, for all the Ks I tested the best LP regardless of ammo type and can or no can was the 100 degree, that's where I got the normal 900 ROF suppressed and perfect reliability unsuppressed and suppressed. Where the K gets wonky is when people try and correct an out of spec bolt gap by using a lower degree LP, or using an out of spec LP that causes an out of spec bolt gap. The best advice I can give is buy a 100 degree LP if you don't already have one installed, check the bolt gap to verify it's in spec, and then run a mag and verify the ROF is around 900 RPM +/- 50 suppressed or unsuppressed. The only time you should really consider trying a 90 degree or a 80 degree is when you plan to exclusively shoot 147 grain or higher ammo suppressed. Thank you for the detailed reply, your input is very much appreciated! |
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Well, I can't say anything regarding the ARHK for obvious reasons, but for my MKE AP5P/MP5K, I've used everything from the 115-120ish stock LP (they're machined so rough, I don't even know that MKE themselves could tell you what their default is), down to a 100 -- which slowed things down significantly -- to a 90, and finally an 80 LP. I can only say that I've found the 80 to be absolutely perfect. With the stock LP, I was running in the range of 1300RPM+. It's also worth mentioning that I don't use 147gr at all; I shoot 115gr and 124gr almost exclusively. Currently, I shoot 100% suppressed with an Omega 9k, but I thoroughly tested every load both suppressed/unsuppressed to verify reliability. I've burned through nearly 2k of 115gr factory ammo I had on hand, and I'm currently shooting 124gr reloads exclusively, ranging from a subsonic 4.1gr of Autocomp to full-power 5.1gr. All function 100% with the 80-degree LP, both suppressed/unsuppressed. Best of all, the ROF is an almost perfect 950RPM when suppressed. For context, I'm using an ASD stripped lower, Geissele S3G, Arcfire V2 45/90 degree, ASD ejector, and titanium slip trip. Function with the 80-degree has been absolutely flawless. Point of fact, I haven't had a single malfunction since I switched from the factory lower to the ASD lower I built, regardless of load or LP. Zero, none. It has been damn impressive. My bolt gap was on the high end from the beginning, and remained well within spec with each LP change -- varying between 0.30mm and 0.45mm. If I recall correctly, it's currently sitting at 0.35mm or 0.40mm with the 80-degree. I'd have to double-check to give an exact number. In any case, an 80-degree might not work for everyone, but I'd advise not being afraid to try LPs below 100 degrees. You might be pleasantly surprised. I'd say it's well worth the relatively low cost to test, and you may find your MP5K is like mine and quite likes an 80 or 90-degree LP. After all, getting your ROF down to a stock range when suppressed should be the goal, and is the best possible situation. It makes your MP5K more controllable, reduces gas back pressure when suppressed, and just makes for an altogether more enjoyable FA/FRT gun to shoot. |
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I noticed some movement on the ARHK page yesterday. It listed different ejector choices briefly. Now it's back to the way it was. https://activesafetydesigns.com/mp5/arhk/ |
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Originally Posted By s3igu2: So assuming the bolt gap is in spec, the full size MP5s are easy just run a 100 degree, can or no can, and all ammo types. Don't try and run a 90 in the full size, just make sure the bolt gap is in spec and run a 100 degree, ROF should be around 800 +/- 50. Now for the K things are mostly the same with some exceptions, for all the Ks I tested the best LP regardless of ammo type and can or no can was the 100 degree, that's where I got the normal 900 ROF suppressed and perfect reliability unsuppressed and suppressed. Where the K gets wonky is when people try and correct an out of spec bolt gap by using a lower degree LP, or using an out of spec LP that causes an out of spec bolt gap. The best advice I can give is buy a 100 degree LP if you don't already have one installed, check the bolt gap to verify it's in spec, and then run a mag and verify the ROF is around 900 RPM +/- 50 suppressed or unsuppressed. The only time you should really consider trying a 90 degree or a 80 degree is when you plan to exclusively shoot 147 grain or higher ammo suppressed. thanks for interesting insight |
Just on the off chance that anybody else is reading 90 degree or 100 degree LP and wondering what in the world, like I was, here is the LP and where it goes. HOW TO: Reinstall locking piece in HK MP5 |
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Originally Posted By Malum-Prohibitum: Just on the off chance that anybody else is reading 90 degree or 100 degree LP and wondering what in the world, like I was, here is the LP and where it goes.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptlCvmkg8Q8That is cool. The first time I took apart the bolt trying to get it back on I was like wtf this isn't going back together 
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3 days ago ASD said on IG “should be just a few more weeks. We are full swing in production” Looks like we’re in the home stretch! Mid-Sept I guess. |
"When will the economy get better?" When you start spending!
"Grammar: the difference between knowing your sh*t and knowing you're sh*t!"
"Grammar: the difference between knowing your sh*t and knowing you're sh*t!"
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Originally Posted By jerz_subbie: 3 days ago ASD said on IG "should be just a few more weeks. We are full swing in production" Looks like we're in the home stretch! Mid-Sept I guess. |
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Originally Posted By FightingHellfish: Somebody needs to bribe S3igu2 to post in this thread with a nice 24-hour warning before sales go live on the ASD website. Lol, if something like that was going to happen, it would probably be on the hk pro forums. Lots of big money over there. I do know one thing, they WILL NOT be able to keep up with demand when they go live. |
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Originally Posted By FightingHellfish: Somebody needs to bribe S3igu2 to post in this thread with a nice 24-hour warning before sales go live on the ASD website. Feet pics sent |
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Originally Posted By FightingHellfish: Somebody needs to bribe S3igu2 to post in this thread with a nice 24-hour warning before sales go live on the ASD website. If they stay silent and just drop it, you'll only have the bots running scrips looking for page updates to fight with plus slow word of mouth at first. If they give any heads up here or elsewhere, it'll get out everywhere and then you'll have the bots AND the horde or people queued up spamming F5. |
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Originally Posted By BullpupFan: Well people in Kolorado are no longer potential customers because you missed your initial promises, so it's not "get it a few months faster" it's "get it at all". We haven't shipped to Colorado in probably a year when the last assault weapons ban was passed because the wording of the bill didn't say FRTs were excluded from immediate effect (other parts of the bill had specific effective dates listed). We pushed out all pending orders for residents there at the time, but that was long before ARHK. Regardless, there was no grandfather clause so it's illegal to possess there now anyways. Hopefully it gets overturned with all the recent progress in other courts. |
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Originally Posted By ASDesigns: We haven't shipped to Colorado in probably a year when the last assault weapons ban was passed because the wording of the bill didn't say FRTs were excluded from immediate effect (other parts of the bill had specific effective dates listed). We pushed out all pending orders for residents there at the time, but that was long before ARHK. Regardless, there was no grandfather clause so it's illegal to possess there now anyways. Hopefully it gets overturned with all the recent progress in other courts. Any word on a POSSIBLE Release Date for the Mp5 FRT??? |
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Originally Posted By ASDesigns: We haven't shipped to Colorado in probably a year when the last assault weapons ban was passed because the wording of the bill didn't say FRTs were excluded from immediate effect (other parts of the bill had specific effective dates listed). We pushed out all pending orders for residents there at the time, but that was long before ARHK. Regardless, there was no grandfather clause so it's illegal to possess there now anyways. Hopefully it gets overturned with all the recent progress in other courts. Originally Posted By ASDesigns: Originally Posted By BullpupFan: Well people in Kolorado are no longer potential customers because you missed your initial promises, so it's not "get it a few months faster" it's "get it at all". We haven't shipped to Colorado in probably a year when the last assault weapons ban was passed because the wording of the bill didn't say FRTs were excluded from immediate effect (other parts of the bill had specific effective dates listed). We pushed out all pending orders for residents there at the time, but that was long before ARHK. Regardless, there was no grandfather clause so it's illegal to possess there now anyways. Hopefully it gets overturned with all the recent progress in other courts. Are yall going to be putting a customer limit on quantity purchased? |
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Originally Posted By JohnGalt1394: Would you really need an additional lever selector, or could you just swap in the one from your existing trigger pack, assuming you didn't need additional caliber capability? Good question. The image on the product page only shows the part of the lever above the cassette. It has that odd checkered stamping that factory HK levers use. ETA: confirmed factory parts above me. |
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Originally Posted By JohnGalt1394: Disregard, ASD answered this over on HK Pro......... The answer appears to be that you can swap in your existing parts, ejector, spring, lever, unless you want to keep your existing trigger pack intact. Correct, and just to add, because I have been asked about it a few times. You don't need to modify the ejector to work with ARHK like you do with the AR FCG lowers, so you can pull your current ejector out of the factory pack you got and install it in ARHK in like 10 seconds. |
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I wonder if they took into consideration there are two styles of HK21 ejector lever and trigger pack. Doesn’t look like they cut the ejector lever channel in the front of the pack deep enough for one of the two styles. For reference… Attached File Attached File |
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Originally Posted By cms81586: I wonder if they took into consideration there are two styles of HK21 ejector lever and trigger pack. Doesn’t look like they cut the ejector lever channel in the front of the pack deep enough for one of the two styles. For reference… https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2980/IMG_8246_jpeg-3822604.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2980/IMG_8247_jpeg-3822605.JPG Looks like you have too many HK21 kits 
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Originally Posted By cms81586: I wonder if they took into consideration there are two styles of HK21 ejector lever and trigger pack. Doesn’t look like they cut the ejector lever channel in the front of the pack deep enough for one of the two styles. For reference… https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2980/IMG_8246_jpeg-3822604.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2980/IMG_8247_jpeg-3822605.JPG If they delay this further because of you I'm going to be upset.
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Originally Posted By JohnGalt1394: Disregard, ASD answered this over on HK Pro......... The answer appears to be that you can swap in your existing parts, ejector, spring, lever, unless you want to keep your existing trigger pack intact. Wait… You’re saying that the ARHK will work, and select three positions, with existing semi-auto selector levers? |
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Originally Posted By Capt-Planet: If they delay this further because of you I'm going to be upset. Just here doing my part. I offered to help them work through the HK21 specific issues early on. They must have known this already and didn’t need input. Im going to be really disappointed if this thing is a dud with the 21. Especially since a couple thousand parts kits hit the market a few years ago and it’s the most economical way to get into a belt fed 7.62 these days. Attached File |
AS Designs ARHK (Page 13 of 14)
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