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Posted: 4/18/2016 9:34:51 AM EDT
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What going through some of the picture threads, I noticed that every single scope I saw had the back of the scope lined up with the charging handle. When I installed my scope The back end is about 3 inches or more past charging handle, that is the only way I can see properly through the scope. Am I doing something wrong? Is there any adjustment that I'm not aware of?
There was another reason for asking this question, I had to remove my back up flip up sights because I had to push so far back and because I don't have a riser. I plan on using this rifle for hog hunting and if for some reason my scope is off, I really would like the ability to remove it and use the iron sights. |
| Move your scope three inches forward so it is about even with the charging handle. Then move your cheek weld forward until you get perfect eye relief. If you can't move your cheek forward, collapse your stock until you get your cheek set right, or, if butt stock is not collapsible, get a shorter stock. Remember, if you use a fixed stock your cheek set changes with the seasons as you wear more or less clothing. |
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On your BUIS use, there aren't many scope setups that allow it without removing the scope. If your scope doesn't have QD mounts, just find a creative way to carry or attach a small, thin wrench or whatever tool you need to loosen the scope mount fasteners. Some buttstocks and grips have small cavities in them that might accommodate a small wrench/tool. We're not talking about 1/2" breaker bar sized tools here for this job. Odds of having a total scope failure are low...at least those without electronics present.
I have one bullpup rifle that has a 3x9 scope mounted with a Burris PEPR cantilever mount that has those top half split mounts with a small pic rail on the top. I have a Burris Fastfire III red dot attached to that piece of pic rail. It looks a lot like the Burris factory setup of the 1-4 Mtac setup. If my scope fails, I have a backup red dot. If my red dot for close work fails, I have a scope backup. Leupold has a similar scope/red dot model, but the two elements are permanently attached. A lot of these setups are very preferential and/or situational. |
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Quoted:
Move your scope three inches forward so it is about even with the charging handle. Then move your cheek weld forward until you get perfect eye relief. If you can't move your cheek forward, collapse your stock until you get your cheek set right, or, if butt stock is not collapsible, get a shorter stock. Remember, if you use a fixed stock your cheek set changes with the seasons as you wear more or less clothing. The problem is If I move the adjustable butt stock forward it feels very uncomfortable. I like mine in the farthest back position. |
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Have you considered using 45-degree offset sights?
Quoted:... Remember, if you use a fixed stock your cheek set changes with the seasons as you wear more or less clothing. I think you're referring to buttstock length-of-pull, unless you're putting hats on your face. |
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Quoted:
Have you considered using 45-degree offset sights? I think you're referring to buttstock length-of-pull, unless you're putting hats on your face. Quoted:
Have you considered using 45-degree offset sights? Quoted:... Remember, if you use a fixed stock your cheek set changes with the seasons as you wear more or less clothing. I think you're referring to buttstock length-of-pull, unless you're putting hats on your face. Yep...forgot about that one. I kind of played with this concept on one of my rifles, but I guess I'm not a good enough ninja operator to feel confident with this setup. 
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Really depends how you shoot. I shoot w/the stock collapsed all the way... and shoot NTCH with irons. That being said, my scope is about 2-3 inches behind the end of charging handle... which is pretty much the eye relief I need when shooting NTCH. I'd like to see a photo of that. |
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The problem is If I move the adjustable butt stock forward it feels very uncomfortable. I like mine in the farthest back position. Quoted:
Quoted:
Move your scope three inches forward so it is about even with the charging handle. Then move your cheek weld forward until you get perfect eye relief. If you can't move your cheek forward, collapse your stock until you get your cheek set right, or, if butt stock is not collapsible, get a shorter stock. Remember, if you use a fixed stock your cheek set changes with the seasons as you wear more or less clothing. The problem is If I move the adjustable butt stock forward it feels very uncomfortable. I like mine in the farthest back position. If you prefer to have the stock in it's furthest position, run it how you have it. Some folks like to adjust the stock length to compensate for light/ heavy clothing or armor/ chest rigs. so the scope gets mounted forward. Regarding rear sights, some will absolutely not be able to sit on the rifle while the scope is in place. Carry a multi-tool or small wrench, or use a quick-detach mount, then remove the optic when you need to switch to irons. |
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Quoted: I'd like to see a photo of that. Quoted: Quoted: Really depends how you shoot. I shoot w/the stock collapsed all the way... and shoot NTCH with irons. That being said, my scope is about 2-3 inches behind the end of charging handle... which is pretty much the eye relief I need when shooting NTCH. I'd like to see a photo of that. Occular lens 3 inches behind the CH, yet still shoots NTCH?  |
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Quoted:
The problem is If I move the adjustable butt stock forward it feels very uncomfortable. I like mine in the farthest back position. Quoted:
Quoted:
Move your scope three inches forward so it is about even with the charging handle. Then move your cheek weld forward until you get perfect eye relief. If you can't move your cheek forward, collapse your stock until you get your cheek set right, or, if butt stock is not collapsible, get a shorter stock. Remember, if you use a fixed stock your cheek set changes with the seasons as you wear more or less clothing. The problem is If I move the adjustable butt stock forward it feels very uncomfortable. I like mine in the farthest back position. How long have you been shooting rifles? Generally when shooting an AR your nose should be almost able to touch the charging handle. This position is consistent with most other types of rifles. |
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Quoted:
How long have you been shooting rifles? Generally when shooting an AR your nose should be almost able to touch the charging handle. This position is consistent with most other types of rifles. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Move your scope three inches forward so it is about even with the charging handle. Then move your cheek weld forward until you get perfect eye relief. If you can't move your cheek forward, collapse your stock until you get your cheek set right, or, if butt stock is not collapsible, get a shorter stock. Remember, if you use a fixed stock your cheek set changes with the seasons as you wear more or less clothing. The problem is If I move the adjustable butt stock forward it feels very uncomfortable. I like mine in the farthest back position. How long have you been shooting rifles? Generally when shooting an AR your nose should be almost able to touch the charging handle. This position is consistent with most other types of rifles. Not that long. When I shoot my carbine that's about where I am positioned, but this is a large AR10. On my .308 AK I also have my scope farther back. When I go to the range I will try adjusting it forward. |
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Only time I can shoot ntch is when I'm prone.
But my scopes line up with the charging handle there abouts, maybe a little before as if there were a rear iron sight below it. When I'm shooting a rifle, I tend to square up and put my right foot slightly behind me. The position of the scope has a lot to do with the magnification and eye relief. As far as the stock length, I can't shoot it comfortably fully extended. I think I extend it out and push up two clicks based on a six position extension |
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Quoted:
Have you considered using 45-degree offset sights? I think you're referring to buttstock length-of-pull, unless you're putting hats on your face. Quoted:
Have you considered using 45-degree offset sights? Quoted:... Remember, if you use a fixed stock your cheek set changes with the seasons as you wear more or less clothing. I think you're referring to buttstock length-of-pull, unless you're putting hats on your face. Clarification: If you are wearing bulky clothing, the end of the butt stock will be further away from your body, thus your cheek set will be in a different position on the stock than if you were wearing just a T-shirt. |
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Quoted:...
Clarification: If you are wearing bulky clothing, the end of the butt stock will be further away from your body, thus your cheek set will be in a different position on the stock than if you were wearing just a T-shirt. Again, I believe you are referring to length of pull effecting eye relief. Length of pull is a measurement of buttstock length interaction. Eye relief is a measure of dominant shooting eye to-ocular lens interaction. When you write cheek set I believe you are referring to cheek weld. Cheek weld is a face-to-stock interaction that simply aligns the dominant shooting eye directly behind the ocular lens in a magnified sight or rear sight assembly. When someone is referring to a "nose-to-charging-handle" cheek weld, they are simply referring to a primitive manner of indexing the dominant shooting eye to the rear sight. |
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Quoted: What going through some of the picture threads, I noticed that every single scope I saw had the back of the scope lined up with the charging handle. When I installed my scope The back end is about 3 inches or more past charging handle, that is the only way I can see properly through the scope. Am I doing something wrong? Is there any adjustment that I'm not aware of?
There was another reason for asking this question, I had to remove my back up flip up sights because I had to push so far back and because I don't have a riser. I plan on using this rifle for hog hunting and if for some reason my scope is off, I really would like the ability to remove it and use the iron sights. If it looks odd to ARFCOM, but works, it's fine. If your scope has very little eye relief, and you like to shoot your AR w/ the stock fully extended, that's how you'll need to set it up. If you have rail space forward of your scope, just put your rear BUIS up front. You won't have as long a sight radius as you would if it was in the rear, but it should work up front just fine. Zero your irons first, then your scope. |
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If you have rail space forward of your scope, just put your rear BUIS up front. You won't have as long a sight radius as you would if it was in the rear, but it should work up front just fine. Zero your irons first, then your scope. I actually thought about this but thought it would not be very accurate, but now that I Think about it, it would be the same sight radius as my AK. Thanks for the suggestion. |
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Quoted:
What going through some of the picture threads, I noticed that every single scope I saw had the back of the scope lined up with the charging handle. When I installed my scope The back end is about 3 inches or more past charging handle, that is the only way I can see properly through the scope. Am I doing something wrong? Is there any adjustment that I'm not aware of? 1) Different kinds of scopes require the eye to be at different distances from the eyepiece, this is called "eye relief". Some scope makers intentionally try to make this value larger, but for an AR15 type rifle, shorter generally works better. 2) You may well be using poor shooting posture/position and/or just too long of a stock. In general with an AR, most people should have their nose probably about an inch back from the charging handle. You may see the expression "NTCH" sometimes which means Nose To Charging Handle - ie, having your nose in contact with the charging handle. That's a bit extreme for most and leads to things like inhaling combustion products and having your nose beat up by recoil, so a little back is better. If you're shooting with your head all the way at the back of the stock next to your shoulder you need to fix your shooting posture. 3) Scope mounting on an AR requires AR type optics mounts, not standard rings. Standard rings with most scopes just do not allow you to get the scope far enough forward, but people do it anyway and then use bad shooting posture (see above) to compensate. 4) Get your optic, mount and shooting posture straightened out and working and forget about the BUIS. If it happens to fit fine, if not, forget it. |
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