Pretty much.

Everything else is fluff.

A momentary on light to identify the target will keep you out of jail and maybe save the life of an innocent person you forgot to account for.

I consider a decent weapon light with momentary on tail cap or switch essential on a HD rifle.

Try telling the district attorney that the dead body in your hallway, a family member coming in late after you went to bed, is ok and that you didn't need to verify the identity of the target as an intruder before you "eliminated the threat."  See how that works out.

Not only did you lose a family member, but you gained admission to the "negligent homicide" cell-block at your state penitentiary.  Never shoot a target you have not identified as hostile and armed.  No way to do that at 3 a.m. without an appropriate momentary on light.

Just like LE, you are personally responsible for every round that exits your barrel.

*May vary by state law.  Mother In Laws from hell and ex-wives not included.

I agree with the OP.  I find myself looking for an optic that works well for me.  I was using a decent red dot sight but having trouble seeing a crisp dot due to my old eyes.  I found the silver lining in that cloud when a friend purchased his first AR and after trying my red dot purchased it too.  That left me with MBUS on my rifle.  I'm saving my pennies now for a 1-X LPVO.  An etched reticle and a little magnification when needed will improve my results in 25-200+ yard range I want the rifle for.  Meanwhile I have an AR platformed 22LR for training and shooting whole bunches on the cheap.  My wife has more or less claimed it!  I swiped the inexpensive reflex sight off it to use on my rifle until I get something else for it.  While zeroing that sight on my AR I came across a box of 68 gr BTHP my LGS gave mr when I purchased the rifle.  I had only used and zero'ed using M193.  Wow!  What a difference!  My groups went from 2-3 MOA to 1-2.  So yeah OP get an optic that works but keep an eye on those "consumables" next!  I've been inspired to try more ammo brands, weights and types now.

I've wore the same pair of bluejeans for 7 years because of AR15's.

Whooo!  It sure took a long time to read and try to understand this info.  I must say it was an informative read.  My AR does have a light, sling and red dot.  It is comfortable with stock furniture.  It is set up for HD but it is in the gun cabinet.  Under my bed is a HD 12 shotgun with a light.  At the age of 77 and worrying about an intruder in the middle of the night,  I not sure I could hit the broad side of a barn while being startled.  With my shotgun, I know I will stop whoever is intruding.  Additionally, I do not have to worry about bullets going through the wall and hitting a family member.  Just my 2 cent opinion.  But I must say a mounted light is a must.

This list for certain. Spendy learning curve.

I still stand by this.  

What is in the avatar is the first AR-15 I ever owned. It cost me a grand total of $160+, IIRC. Mostly donated parts. After replacing a bad disconnector, it runs like a top. The Bear Creek .223 Wylde barrel isn't the most accurate in the world, but it holds minute of bad guy without a problem.

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My first ever "upgrade' - AROptics red dot. Low speed, high drag.

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I upgraded when I could - a bought a PSA MOE+ lower. Very happy with that, and the CavArms lower was recycled into another person's first AR. I got a SIG Romeo5 red dot. I picked up a MagPul MS3 sling for it, and cheapo $20 flashlight holder with an old Surefire G2 Nitrolon light, right where my support hand thumb can activate it. This range pic had the light and sling off for just doing range toy duty.

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Is this high speed/low drag? According to many here, it barely qualifies as a functional firearm, much less a SHTF tool...but it's what I have. Perhaps I can upgrade even farther some day, but for now, I'm happy.

Amen to that!

Your last sentence says it all.....

I have been by passing this thread for days and decided to read it this morning and it is interesting...@MILSPEC556 makes some interesting comments/observations...

Watch the Kenosha Mile video with Kyle Rittenhouse. I’d argue a sling helped save his life with the weapon retention it offered.

To me there are two of the firearms safety rules that come to an impasse with the scenario of a potential home intruder.
1) know your target, backstop, and beyond
2) never point your gun at anything you aren’t willing to kill or destroy

I take issue with using a weapon mounted light to “search” for an unknown person or thing. I see this quite often on reality cop shows and it doesn’t matter where they are filming it at. I see cops using the light on their weapon (pistol or AR) as a flashlight, flagging cameras, people and who knows what else. When I was in LE, we had several officers get complaints from using their weapon mounted light as a flashlight. We had so many complaints in a short period of time that at the next weapons qualification we had a class on the difference between a tactical light and a flashlight and what they are to be used for.

While identifying your target prior to shooting is the best course of action. However, sometimes that isn’t possible when you are being shot at when it’s dark. When you are searching in the dark, the proper tool to use is a flashlight and not a tac light. The biggest problem I’ve run into is finding a good place to mount my tac light on my AR. It seems that where it is convenient for me, there is something in the way, namely my sling.

Surely you are kidding.

Ask Kyle Rittenhouse if he’s glad he had a sling ….Although it was probably the worst sling and sling set up I’ve seen. That sling did it’s job.  I believe he testified that he bought that sling the day of .

Ask Kyle Rittenhouse if he’s glad he had a sling ….Although it was probably the worst sling and sling set up I’ve seen. That sling did it’s job.  I believe he testified that he bought that sling the day of .

I will always try to guide people to quality, but if the rifle is solid, having at least some bare minimum sling-optic-light is better than nothing. KR may have had a shit sling setup, but it served him a helluva lot better than nothing. A Holosun and some whatever light is not an optimized solution, but it’s much better than irons and no light.

In terms of a “build”, I want to see the components that determine function rise to some certain level. The quality of materials, dimensions, and assembly techniques of the barrel, gas block/tube, BCG receiver set & extension, magazines, spring & buffer will determine if and how the gun works, so spend the money there first, and make those parts the emphasis of the build.

I don't think there are any "must haves" for an AR as long as it's working and sighted-in.  The "should haves" are, starting from the rear:

-A stock that isn't too wobbly.  I don't think it really matters which one you're using otherwise.  It should be setup to mount your sling in a way you are ok with.  
-7075 buffer tube.  Torqued to at least 35-40 ft-lbs rifle or carbine.
-A pistol grip with Loctite on the grip screw
-Make sure the safety has good tension
-A decent trigger.  CMMG makes nice GI ones for $35 so no excuse here.
-7075 lower and make sure the magazine clicks in nicely
-The magazine should be one of a reputable quality.  I have found that Gen 2 PMAGs work the best across all my guns.
-Chrome-lined or nitrided 16" or 20" barrel.
-A handguard and/or VFG setup that works.  Don't just plan on grabbing an MLOK rail with bare hands and no covers or VFG.  That can barbecue your hand after a few mags on a hot day.  
-Some kind of front sling swivel
-Flashlight in a place that's ergonomic
-A2 or something like a Smith Vortex flash hider.  No obnoxious comps.  
-A good 1x capable sight and good mount for it, mounted properly.  
-Good 5.56 ammo

This is kind of a checklist for a self-defense or security gun.

A true combat rifle btw should ideally have magnification, a red dot, paint, a night vision laser (DBAL-type), full auto capability, and a suppressor.  

I guess this qualifies - fits the thread title.

This started out as an experiment.  I wanted to see what I could build with left over parts from other builds.  I had everything but a stripped lower and stripped upper.  At the time, Anderson lowers were $40, at my LGS.  The stripped upper was sourced from MidwayUSA - their "AR Stoner.  Cheap but, its just a shell and proved to be good quality.

I had an old CMMG 16" gov't profile nitride barrel with A2 front sight base and standard A2 flash hider.  I also had left over - well everything else needed, waffle stock, plastic handguards, small parts and a well-worn smooth mil-spec weight trigger group, old first gen Magpul poly MBUS rear.  Slapped it together.  Threw on a basic sling. Worked great.  So well, I left it that way for a time.

Then, the "$2000 dollar rims on a junker" modding thing hit.  After all, its modular, right?  Easy to "upgrade" with "better" stuff, right?

In this case, though, I did focus on functionality and quality parts trying to meet my HD needs.

Handguards gave way to a Daniel Defense Omega 7.0 drop-in free float.  Quality improvement that allowed a weapon light with tape switch.  Not necessary, as weapon lights can be mounted other ways, but nice.  Has anti-rotation QD sling sockets.  Not necessary as sling was already attached permanently in the traditional manner.  Free-float capability was not really needed, but the old CMMG barrel was close to MOA (about 1.2" at 100 yards) with good ammo.  

Waffle stock gave way to a Magpul CTR - light weight, solid.  No wobble or rattle.  QD sling sockets.  Sling was upgraded to one hand adjustable Magpul MS3 and converted to QD.  Sling gets swapped and serves double-duty on another AR.

Streamlight RM-1 Pro Tac weapon light added in scout mount on the Omega.  Tape switch on Omega top rail for ambi access.  While not Surefire, it's not junk and works well.  A small handstop on the bottom rail positions the support hand in the dark to access the tape switch.

Optics.  The MBUS rear gave way to a less bulky MBUS Pro.  No real improvement in functionality, but certainly a good folding rear sight, arguably up there close to KAC micro.

It needed a red dot.  I wanted quality, light weight.  A mini-reflex made sense.  As this carbine was in an HD role, I was not concerned about snow, dirt, mud, but needed always on or instant on with no need to push buttons or twist knobs in the middle of the night.  Candidates were RMR and Deltapoint Pro.  I went with the DPP.  Larger FOV, clearer, almost tintless glass.  Works great with intensity set high for daytime or use at night with the weapon light.  Mount is absolute cowitness.  Cheekweld and head position will always be the same.

All-in-all.  A cheap stripped lower and upper with left over parts bin stuff became a very service HD weapon.  One may debate the somewhat pricey later upgrades, but thought went into them and they make sense to me.



I'll do my best to resist the temptation to change this setup.  It works.

Add a magnifier & bayonet.  

Just kidding.  Nice setup.

Ha!  Thanks.  Thought of chopping off that bayonet lug.  On a 16" it seems stupid, but it's a part of the FSB.

If an AR is setup for home defense/SHTF, at minimum it should have optic, BUIS, light and sling.

Well said indeed. That's how my home defense AR is set up.

The rest....no light. For those AR's I follow the KISS theory.

Very eloquently said.

Oh, I'm probably gonna start a firestorm...  But it seems to me that your priority of upgrades is subject to your expected intent.  For foundation, all of us whether conscious or not have done some form of risk assessment and made choices about how we expect to deal with those risks internally.  Some people choose to not carry firearms at all.  That is their risk assessment and they are probably content with their decisions.  Others choose to go the opposite direction.

I feel like there are multiple options to each persons own risk assessment and to claim that one size fits all order of priority isn't the best path.  I don't have a single white light on any of my home defense options.  The only light I have is on my carry pistols for when I'm away from home.  Why?  Cause I'm a moron?  No, it's not my priority.  My HD firearms are for MY home defense.  Not for clearing unknown buildings or running around outside at night.  If I believed that would be a possibility I would certainly agree that a weapon light was important.  So I wouldn't even begin to question someone who had one.  But for me, if someone is breaking into my house, my weapon light is call the light switch.  I'm gonna turn on every light in the house and be yelling warnings.  I don't want to catch the intruder off guard and get the drop on them.  I want them to be scared to death at the sudden activity.  But that's because my personal risk assessment is that I am more likely to see an unprepared thief of opportunity than some planned incursion into my house.  The odds that a bad guy I would encounter would cut power to my house is very nearly nothing.  My exterior is well lit and it's a very unlikely scenario where I live.  It could happen in a power outage, but I have a generator that powers my house in those cases and I also happen to know that my house is powered by one of the most reliable (and high priority) substations in my electrical territory.

So for me (and only me) I don't value a weapon light as much as other things.  I value a red dot/optic first.  Trigger second.  Sling third.  And a light, if I ever get one, last.  But I would also be the first to say if I expected to be out side the house in the dark defending my land from total societal break down...  my priorities would be very different.

I say this because the next time you are at the range and see that guy who would dare to have an HD rifle without a light (perish the thought), maybe he/she has a different risk assessment from yours.

Short answer: ALL defensive firearms should have a weaponlight outside deep concealment backups.

Long answer to your apparent negative bias toward weaponlights, read below:

From the tone of your post, it sounds like you are saying you should ALWAYS do covert searches with a handheld light.

If that is true, you need to take a modern low light tactics class my friend. You should ALWAYS willing to shoot/destroy unkown persons or things until they are found to NOT be a threat. It has not been done that way (primary search with handheld light) since Ken Good quit teaching as an instructor for Surefire many years ago. Sure, there are a few instances you would use a handheld to flash a blind corner before entry, etc. but those are the exception.

You use a weapon light to provide quick blips of light and move through the darkness when hostile/armed threats are a possibility. This blinds your opponents and obscures your exact location, number, and direction. You use it in a manner you won't blind yourself and take advantage of the environment by making use of reflected light, umbrella lighting, not looking at the wall you are bouncing a high candela beam off to not blind yourself, etc. You dont have to stay locked down the sights, staring at the hot spot of a continuously activated beam.

You engage continous light ONLY to deal with a located threat and you better damn well already have your weapon pointed at the threat until it is dealt with or you decide it is NOT a threat. You won't have time to transition to a weapon light without getting shot if you locate a REAL threat intent on harming you. Also, a handheld light used with a handgun is a quantum step backward in capability with the speed and accuracy of that handgun. That is for backup use only. With a long gun, you can't effectively use a hand-held light at all. The thought process you have espoused is akin to guys slicing the pie from sul with a handgun, quick peeks, sending the blind corner guy into a room first, and clearing with a rifle from the low ready. These are all bad tactics, but sure... you should not use an attached handgun light to illuminate paperwork you need someone to sign or search under vehicle seats with another officer using ypur attached weapon light.

Finally, a person with a pistol and a rifle should have a light on EACH firearm AND a handheld light. The hand held is for non tactical/administrative tasks, special use, and backup. The rifle light is often not easily made to be removed. That said each light should ideally have at least one backup. A handheld, handgun, and rifle light covers that need.

A handheld is the backup for my handgun light.
A handgun light is the backup for my handheld and rifle lights.
My rifle light is a backup for nothing.

Unfortunately, a rifle light is going to need to be dedicated to a rifle and you can't escape the need on a long gun for a dedicated long gun light.

To use a handgun light as a hand held, you simply remove it from the handgun. This is why all 7 of my handgun lights are Surefire A type attachment lights and not bolt on B types or Streamlights. It is also why all my rifles have a short onobstructed pic rail section at the front of the rail. I can remove the handgun light quickly and put it on the pic rail of a rifle or use it handheld. I have had my primary handheld battery die on night shifts with no choice but to swap to direct traffic away from a fatal accident, complete a late vehicle search, etc. with my handgun light.

You feel a general purpose rifle that is used for home defense doesn't need a light on it?  Do you just shoot at sounds in the night or how does that work?

I had them install lights in every room of my house that are connected to switches on the walls that allow me to turn on those lights.  There's at least one light in each room.  Some of them even have fans if I want to move the air around in the room.  Makes it a lot easier to see at night and sometimes I use them when I can't read at night.  LOL.  Overly snarky comment, not intended to offend.  Just being ridiculous.

But seriously, I don't understand the need to sneak around my house if I feel there's a threat.  My HD plan will include turning on lights and being extremely vocal after I've already called 911.  I'm not going to "room clear" in the dark.  Statistically, very few top tier military capable crews have attempted to break into my house recently, so I feel pretty confident that I won't be up against the Spetsnaz, GSG-9, or Mossad.  The most likely aggressor in a home invasion is going to be gang related, unprepared, and likely less motivated.  And in all truth it's more likely to be a single drug addict who is looking for a crime of opportunity.  They aren't expecting a fight at all.  And because of that, most home invasion scenarios that are actually possible involve bad actors who are already scared to death or high on something.  They aren't well organized or well prepared. (Sorry for being sarcastic, but it's meant for humor.)

Maybe you glossed over the part about the risk assessment.  My honest question for you would be, have you really done a risk assessment of your personal HD plan and what is the most likely scenario you might actually face on a day to day.  Remember, I said before that if we're talking about end of days total break down in society this all changes for me.  But for real life, day to day existence the likelihood of needing a weapon light in your house is minimal depending on your situation.  For me, where I live, how my house is laid out, what I know I will have visible etc, a light is not necessary on my HD weapon.  Outside/away from my house, it changes because I have less control over the environment.  Which is why my EDC pistol does have a light.  I don't have 40 acres of land, so I'm not likely to be out walking my property looking for invaders.

But after all of that, my only purpose in my post to respond to the comment someone made about not understanding someone at the range with an HD rifle and no light.  There are people who understand it's not necessary.  I don't look at people who are at the range with weapon lights and think they're strange.  It's their risk assessment that they need a light.  So be it.  There are people for whom their risk assessment leads them to never carry or own a gun.  And statistically speaking, that's not always a bad choice.  People go their whole lifetime not once even being robbed in some places.

I don't disagree with that.  And I don't intend to do any outside work with my HD firearms.  I just want them out of my house.  I only have an acre of land, so it's not like I have a lot of space to defend anyway.

Starting with the 2020 national electric code all one and two unit dwellings are required to have a disconnecting means on the outside of the house.  This is intended for fire departments to kill power.  Most apartment complexes and multi family dwellings already have the disconnecting means located in an accessable location due to the grouping requirements for services.  All those lights in your house are at the will of mother nature or a brown out.  

Here is a nice article from Jedi and a few others that are pretty reliable folks.

recoil should you carry a weapon mounted light.
Bluf...lights have gotten cheap and reliable and there is no reason to not have one on your gun.  


Target ID has more to do than anything even in your partially lit house you may have shadow locations.  Every house layout is different but unless you have a smart home with a type of all on intruder feature there is a chance you can turn on your hallway light with a dead space unlit deeper into the living, dining room or kitchen.  

There are dozens of examples of a spooked father shooting his child due to shit PID.  Here are a small example off of page one google

father shoots son Florida 2022
father shooting son california 2022
father shoots daughter ohio 2021

In the recoil article Jedi stated


Statistically the chances of shooting someone you love mistaking them for a burglar is likely pretty low.  The point of the post here was to talk about the hierarchy of needs for upgrades

If you have multiple AR15s or a bunch of gimmicks on a single AR you are not really worth arguing with.  The hope is that other new folks might start at the bottom and build a functional general purpose rifle.

I appreciate the time you took to put this all together.  As with all online discussions I find myself having to re-re-re-explain the point I made that is always missed.  At the beginning of this thread, the OP stated that he sees people at the range with HD rifles and no light and thinks it's weird.  My point is very simple.  Just because someone chooses to not have a light on their HD rifle, does not mean they are wrong.  I've been extremely clear.  I'm not trying to insult you, but I feel like you haven't read my posts.  Maybe you have, but it feels like you haven't.  Every individual will do some form of risk assessment of their own situation.  Whether implicitly or explicitly, they will do one.  Many of those people will decide that there is no need in their risk assessment for a weapon light.  I'm one of those people.  I've explained why a couple times.  In my specific situation, I am not worried about the need to have a light on my rifle.  Given where I live, the normal types of crime that exist around me, the places I go, the people I interact with regularly, etc.  So when you see someone at the range who doesn't have a weapon light, it's not weird.  It's their personal risk assessment.  For some people, that assessment will be nothing more than a rationalization to justify the purchase of something they heard a "guru" say they needed.

First off, where I live, there is no need to follow NFPA 70 (NEC).  I am in an unincorporated area with no permit or inspection requirements.  My house was built prior to implementation of the 2020 NEC.  Any disconnecting mean on the outside of my house are locked in a manner that flipping the switch is not simple.  The area is well lit and has security camera coverage.  It's not a blind spot and is easily visible.  Typical criminals do not like to expose themselves to light long enough to be seen, and the presence of additional motion activated lighting also provides deterrence.  I am rural and off of a road that is not a through route to any other area and I'm 2 miles from any semi major road.  Further, I'm several layers deep in houses around me, which makes my house much less likely to be a target of opportunity.  I have 3 state troopers living less than a half mile from my house and they drive marked work vehicles and park them in their drive ways.  My neighborhood is a VERY low risk of random break in.

The lighting in my house is partially controlled by a smart house system.  But is over lit by most standards because in every living space I added more lights than the original design contained.  With all lights on, there are no dim or dark spaces.  My exterior is lit automatically all night with additional lighting on motion control and I have video surveillance covering every face and corner of the outside as well as all lower level entrances from the inside.  My exterior is a deterrent.  My "neighborhood" is a deterrent.  The crime stats in my area do not reflect home invasions as a high percentage.  My house is backed up with a generator that is not accessible from the outside and my main panel is inside and directly attached to the generator.  Crime is not rampant during winter time because we frequently see several feet of snow and sub -20F temps.  Summers are very bright and well lit because the sun doesn't set until after midnight and really only skims the horizon until 2-3am.

In my personal risk assessment, a weapon light is not a priority.  I have been overly clear that I am only talking about myself and perhaps others who may have a similar personal risk assessment.  And my entire purpose for posting was to simply refute the idea that seeing someone at the range with no weapon light is "weird".  If my situation was different, if I lived closer to a city (or heaven forbid, in a city), if home invasion was more prevalent in my area, if my home wasn't powered from a substation that also feeds the regional hospital or had a history of unreliable power, if my exterior was more inviting to a BG, etc, etc, my assessment would be different.  I've said in every post, if we're only discussing a SHTF/WROL/Boogaloo/zombie apocalypse, my assessment would be different.

Your reference to Jedi's comment about lights/guns is exactly what I said in the post you quoted.  I know people who have never owned a gun beyond a hunting rifle or bird shotgun.  And they have never been robbed.  Never had a home invasion.  Never been mugged.  Did they make the wrong choice in their assessment that an HD gun wasn't necessary when they died of old age?  SO, I'll re-reiterate.  When you see someone at the range who is practicing with their HD rifle and it's got a nice optic, upgraded controls, and is a quality rifle, but doesn't have a light...  It's not weird.  They just decided it wasn't necessary for them.  And that's fine.

2024 will mark FORTY YEARS of continuous AR15 ownership and use.  Too many ARs in all of those years to recount, but the lessons were hard earned.  Unfortunately we humans have short memories, and I often repeated mistakes because "it'll be different this time".  It was not.  This is the culmination of my experience and resultant recommendations:

1) Purchase a BCM, Colt, Daniel Defense, LMT or KAC carbine.
2) Install a Geissele SSA-E trigger.
3) Install KAC BUIS.
4) Add an Aimpoint RDS or Trijicon ACOG with Trijicon RMR Piggybacked.  Mount the optic in a Unity Tactical QD if you're using in conjunction with NODS or a LaRue QD if you are not.  (Hopefully you've noted the absence of a LPVO on this line item.  They have a place, but it isn't on a "one and done" carbine for most shooters.  We're talking about 5.56 with a max realistic effective range of about 400 yards. PID with a 3.5x or 4x ACOG is more than adequate, and with practice any shooter should be able to hit a 18x24 target at 400 with a 2MOA RDS).
5) Add a SureFire M600 Scout with click tail cap.  Skip the pressure switch.
6) Add a Vickers 2 point sling with QD swivels.
7) Purchase Okay / SureFeed 30rd magazines (or MagPul Gen 3 PMags if you like plastic stuff).
8) Ammo. More ammo.  Most ammo. All the ammo.

There is very little chance the average person will be disappointed with the results if they take this approach.

Notice that I didn't spec the type of rail system, buttstock, model of AP, etc?  This is because these are largely personal details that honestly do not matter.  If you like a TA31 Horseshoe Dot over a Chevron.  Cool. If you prefer a CompM4 over a T2. Cool.  If you like DD's rail over BCM's. Cool.  My only comment there is ... monolithic is better for LAMs.

ETA: Someone will be here shortly to tell me their home assembled Radical Firearms with a $39 Amazon red dot is better than what I specified above.  Awesome.  That's really great for you. I'm glad you're one of those increasingly common people that believe they are some how more intelligent / special than those of us with HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF ROUNDS downrange.  

ETA2: Someone will also comment about being poor.  Spend less time on the internet, and more time building skills and a career.  Cash will follow.

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Its really simple and I can't seem to grasp the push back.  

The sling is for when you need to use your hands.

The light is for when there isn't enough light in the room for what ever reason under the non-existent sun

The hierarchy of needs remains the same.  For first purchase or GP overall rifle use as the basics they really should be out front.  

A rifle as a toy or general tool can focus on what ever other directions you want to go but if you want a quality home defense or general purpose hard use rifle this is it.