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Posted: 10/2/2014 6:14:51 PM EDT
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So I have been on a spending binge fixing up a mint condition pre ban rifle. When I lived in a free state while I was in the Army, I owned several ARs, some had free floating barrels. Now all of these rifles did the job just fine, but they really didn't seem any more or less accurate than the non free floating m4s I shot at work (and Ive shot plenty of .556 being an 11B), although nicer triggers DID make a big difference. I do remember being told that since the M4 rail wasn't free floating, you should re zero the rifle after you put an M203 on it, which makes sense. But I do not think mounting an M203 is a concern I will encounter anytime soon.
So the question is, now that I am a poor college student who sold all his guns and is trying to start again: Does a free floating barrel (I.E a more expensive hand-guard/ rail system) really make a perceivable difference to a rifle meant for intermediate combat distance (450 meters or closer)? It seems to me that most people cant out shoot their guns, and I am definitely not an exception. What is the hive mind's opinion? |
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Nice to see a fellow former infantryman. My take on the free float vs non free float is that you'll probably need to spend the money for good ammo before you'll see the accuracy gains. If your using cheap surplus ammo, the ammo is going to be more of a hindrance to your accuracy than running a drop in hand guard set up. Where a nice trigger can allow you to shoot the rifle more accurately, it's not actually improving the rifle's accuracy, just allowing you to get a cleaner trigger break and there for keep the rifle on target easier while firing.
edit: I went the non free float route because one: I'm too cheap to buy match ammo and two: My intended purpose of the rifle wouldn't have made use of the potential accuracy gain anyway. |
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If I'm replacing a HG I figure I might as well go the extra step and FF it. A high quality second-hand FF rail can can be found for 100 to 140 in the EE.
Pressure on your barrel from your HG can and will cause POI shifts. So it depends on wether or not that makes a difference to you and the type of shooting you do or may do in the future. Who knows, maybe a Marine will be kind enough to give you some tips and you'll be able to properly utilize a more accurate weapon  .
Question I'd ask myself is, if I'm buying aftermarket HG and it's in the same ballpark price wise, why wouldn't I FF it? |
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Quoted: Question I'd ask myself is, if I'm buying aftermarket HG and it's in the same ballpark price wise, why wouldn't I FF it? Because by the time you buy a low-profile gas block, a new barrel nut, and a tool with a barrel nut wrench on it, you are no longer in the same ballpark.  Not counting the fact that most FF handguards run about 3-4 times what the cost of a drop-in handguard cost. If I was wanting 450 meter accuracy though, I'd go ahead and FF that barrel. |
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It's a tool. If the purpose of your tool is punching paper and HD to 50yds I would go with what you like, FF or not.
If you have a CL barrel you're probably wasting your time with a FFHG. If you invest in a really GOOD barrel and plan to shoot little things to way out there then it only makes sense to FF it and get out of it what it was designed to do. You don't put a fire-breathing supercharged beast of an engine into your 70 Chevelle and put a single exhaust and basic muffler on it. Will it function? Sure, but why hold it back. Again figure out what you want the tool to do then make the tool match the job. |
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Quoted: Because by the time you buy a low-profile gas block, a new barrel nut, and a tool with a barrel nut wrench on it, you are no longer in the same ballpark. Not counting the fact that most FF handguards run about 3-4 times what the cost of a drop-in handguard cost. A few rail systems (e.g. Troy Alpha) use the standard barrel nut so you don't have to buy a new one. The rail systems that do require a specific barrel nut are including with the rail system.
Some rail systems require a specific wrench to install and sometimes the tool is included (e.g. Daniel Defense). Some rails use the standard barrel nut wrench (e.g. Troy Alpha). As for cost, rail systems are always going to be significantly more expensive than plastic handguards but Troy Alpha rails range from about $125-$165 depending upon length. Can you tell I like Troy Alpha rails?  |
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Quoted:
Not counting the fact that most FF handguards run about 3-4 times what the cost of a drop-in handguard cost. An FSB can be cut down to fit under most FF rails. This assumes that one chooses a rail that is long enough to cover the gas port. A few rail systems (e.g. Troy Alpha) use the standard barrel nut so you don't have to buy a new one. The rail systems that do require a specific barrel nut are including with the rail system. Some rail systems require a specific wrench to install and sometimes the tool is included (e.g. Daniel Defense). Some rails use the standard barrel nut wrench (e.g. Troy Alpha). As for cost, rail systems are always going to be significantly more expensive than plastic handguards but Troy Alpha rails range from about $125-$165 depending upon length. Can you tell I like Troy Alpha rails?
Quoted:
Quoted:Because by the time you buy a low-profile gas block, a new barrel nut, and a tool with a barrel nut wrench on it, you are no longer in the same ballpark. An FSB can be cut down to fit under most FF rails. This assumes that one chooses a rail that is long enough to cover the gas port. A few rail systems (e.g. Troy Alpha) use the standard barrel nut so you don't have to buy a new one. The rail systems that do require a specific barrel nut are including with the rail system. Some rail systems require a specific wrench to install and sometimes the tool is included (e.g. Daniel Defense). Some rails use the standard barrel nut wrench (e.g. Troy Alpha). As for cost, rail systems are always going to be significantly more expensive than plastic handguards but Troy Alpha rails range from about $125-$165 depending upon length. Can you tell I like Troy Alpha rails?
I'm also a fan of the Troy Vtac Alpha rail. They can be found in the EE for around 100-120. User can easily install himself, no barrel nut to change out. shave the FSP down with a dremel and you've got a great FF rail for the price of a KAC RAS. |
NO, FF seems to be the popular topic lately. The difference between FF and non FF is going to be hardly noticeable at all on a AR15. Now when you get into true "precision rifles" , AKA "Bolt Action", a FF rail, would be more noticeable. Those that claim groups that are 4" tighter at 50 yards with a FF rail vs Non FF have other issues going on, or could be all placebo. 
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Quoted:
...If you invest in a really GOOD barrel and plan to shoot little things to way out there then it only makes sense to FF it and get out of it what it was designed to do. You don't put a fire-breathing supercharged beast of an engine into your 70 Chevelle and put a single exhaust and basic muffler on it. Will it function? Sure, but why hold it back..... I rather like that analogy, 
I like informal target shooting, so I have done the little tricks ( barrel, trigger, scope, free-float) in an attempt to keep the groups as close together as possible, no matter the distance. I also reload my own ammunition. If I miss, I really don't want to be able to blame it on the rifle. An inexpensive free-float tube will allow the barrel to perform just as consistently (which is the key) as a more expensive rail, and if you're not planning to attach accessories, you can get by with just a tube. 450 meters is a pretty good distance as far as I'm concerned, and so would justify free floating to me. 
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Quoted:
I actually want to know how a good trigger improves accuracy. Is it because of the difference in break when pulling the trigger? Quoted:
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I would say barrel choice and trigger are far more important that free float. I actually want to know how a good trigger improves accuracy. Is it because of the difference in break when pulling the trigger? A good trigger is much more PREDICTABLE as to when the hammer will fall. (and is usually lighter too) As an example, when I tried out the new factory trigger on mine, I would line up the scope crosshairs on the target as steady as I could hold, then I would slowly add finger pressure while squeezing the trigger, and all I would get is a bunch of creepy, gritty, slop, and by then my body movement had caused the crosshairs to come off where I wanted the bullet to strike...and that's usually about the time the rifle would fire. 
A light and CRISP trigger allows you to drop the hammer when everything is lined up to your satisfaction. IMHO 
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I read the entire thread.
I've always thought you had to have four things to make an AR accurate. The best bolt/barrel combo you can lay your hands on. The best trigger you can afford. The best ammo you can make. Practice, practice practice. This led to AR#4. I sunk money where I needed to. The non-critical parts were from the spare parts box. Gratuitous pics of AR #4. Fairly accurate Franken-AR 
It's not just a trigger, barrel or free floating. it's all those parts working together that gets it done assuming the blob squeezing the trigger does his part. |
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