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Posted: 3/10/2013 6:27:04 PM EDT
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I’m taking on my first AR-15 build. I decided to build it with a gas piston system. I’ve been doing a lot of research on the various piston systems and I’ve narrowed it down to two systems. I’m looking at the Adams Arms and Black Rifle Arms piston systems.
I’ve read carrier tilt is present anytime a gas piston system is used. So I’m favoring the Black Rifle Arms Spartan system with their method of mitigating the carrier tilt problem, see link below. http://youtu.be/zzsE_J3XSWQ Their bolt carrier with the polymer attachment seems like a good solution to the carrier tilt friction problem. I was also going to equip the bolt with the POF Roller Cam Pin in place of the standard bolt cam pin. Any opinions on the Black Rifle Arms system? |
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Most gas piston system manufacturers figured out the tilt problem and fixed it a long time ago. I have two and my cousin has two and no tilt problems with any of them. All are different manufacturers.
I use synthetic motor oil for lube and I don't have a friction problem. Alluminum pistons have been used in iron blocks for a hundred years. Looks to me like that plastic piece that is rammed into the back of that bolt carrier could possibly give you a problem over time from flex and possible breakage at the joint. Just one more un proven solution to a non existent problem. JMHO |
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I've been running Black Rifle Arms Gen I system for 2 yrs now and their Spartan for a few months and have never had a issue with either one. The polymer end on my Gen I still looks new with no distortion, people make opionions/comments about something they do not know anything about (carrier polmyer end) because they have no idea what the material is used of nor have they ever seen one in person let alone shoot one.. Its also a easy replacement piece that they cover under there warranty if their was a manufacturing defect. Call them if you have any questions, many here don't know all the R&D that went into the system. I have owned several piston systems over the last 7 yrs, so I'm not new to this.
Edited for typos |
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I've been running Black Rifle Arms Gen I system for 2 yrs now and their Spartan for a few months and have never had a issue with either one. The polymer end on my Gen I still looks new with no distortion, people make opionions/comments about something they do not know anything about (carrier polmyer end) because they have no idea what the material is used of nor have they ever seen one in person let alone shoot one.. Its also a easy replacement piece that they cover under there warranty if their was a manufacturing defect.
You don't have to shoot one, or hold one, or even see one. I watched the video. They are a two piece carrier with a joint and a plastic part vs one piece of steel. I have seen plastic parts on 22lr bolts and I was not impressed because they broke. They might hold up just fine in this application over time, I don't know, and frankly you don't either. But I do know that a one piece bolt carrier is not going to break at that joint because it doesn't have one. I wouldn't want to be in the middle of something important and have that thing break and have to call time out, (but its okay because it is warranted for life). I also (like you) have a few years experience with piston AR's, and like I said, I never had a problem with carrier tilt with the older more original way of doing it, and even if you do have carrier tilt it doesn't put you out of service like a broken carrier could. Maybe this two piece carrier has been researched and documented and said to be the best, but if it really was a significant improvement the other manufacturers would be copying it, and they aren't, and I don't expect they ever will. But hey, you pay your money and you take your chances. It's your money. You need to get what you want. |
| Polymer is used in all sorts of application and after 8000 rounds and my carrier buffer not showing any wear or signs of fatique I'll take it over other piston systems I've had. My upper runs flawless, smooth, light recoil so really if I like it like others say that is all that matters especially when I'm the one with experience behind it. |
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I know nothing of Black Rifle Arms so I cannot comment on them. AA has had a few hiccups on their QC from their move, but they are still topnotch and have made everyone happy by fixing aforementioned hiccups. I like em and think they are great.
If you already have a DI upper or are building, don't forget about Osprey Defense. They are a great company with a great product as well. I had their kit in my old Bushy and it was flawless. I ran it as my patrol rifle for years before switching over to my Hogan H-223. As a matter of fact, my younger brother has my Bushy now with the Osprey Defense conversion. I wouldn't put it in his hands unless I trusted it with my own life first....... |
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Thanks for the opinions, very helpful. I didn’t know carrier tilt has become a non-issue. Interesting fact to know. What about using the roller bolt cam pin. The reason I’m looking at using that type of pin is from what I read in this article.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_126/604765_AdamsArm_Bolt_Cam_PROBLEM_____PICS_.html Basically the post describes excessive wear that happens between the bolt cam pin and the upper when it’s first used in the gun. Another member mentioned aluminum pistons in an iron block earlier on this thread. Using that reference and having built several performance engines myself. Most wear in a fresh engine occurs in the first few hours of running. That’s when all the parts are getting friendly with each other. I assume that’s what’s going on with bolt cam pin to upper friction when the gun when it is first fired? Going back to the engine reference, I always built my engines with roller tappets as opposed to flat tappets because of the lower friction offered by the rollers. I assume the same concept would be true for the AR-15? |
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