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Posted: 5/26/2011 6:26:00 PM EDT
| I know there is a LWRC vs SCAR thread already, but I wanted to hear from the LMT owners out there who also own a SCAR or who have used one. Which do you prefer and why? I am looking for pros and cons specific to police use, if you can comment in that regards that would be great. I am looking for a patrol rifle and can't decide between these two, help me choose. The reason I like these two so much is the monolithic rail among other things.Thanks. |
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I own a Piston LMT MRP with a 16 inch barrel. Its very soft shooting, reliable, and accurate. Most parts (except the barrel, piston, and bolt carrier are common with a normal AR15. I do not own a SCAR, but would love to own a 17S. I've read that the SCAR is better balanced than the front-heavy LMT.
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I own a LMT MRP and a SCAR H. IMO it depends on the caliber as both have pros and cons.
For 5.56 I went with the LMT. Easier to obtain parts and Ive heard they have great customer service. I use P Mags so there is no modification needed (you have to do this with the SCAR L). For .308 I went with the SCAR H. One of the lightest .308 rifles there this. Recoil is not that much more than you average 5.56 AR. Supposidly with the SCAR H you can convert it to 5.56 and any thing in between (if FN decides to release a conversion kit). Only draw back to the SCAR H is that parts and mags are hard to obtain. LMT does offer a .308 version (in use by british military) but they dont offer a piston system (hopefully they will develop one). Both are great weapons and you cant go wrong with either one. |
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I'm not a fan of the SCAR 16S. You lose all the customizable abilities and ease of parts that the AR-15 provides. The SCAR is also heavier and bulkier. I'd easily chose the MRP over it.
However, if you are talking about the 17S, that is a different story. That rifle is truly a revolution in the .308 platform. It's remarkably lighter than any competition and such a soft-shooting gun with the PWS brake. Now, you say you are looking for a patrol rifle. To me that screams 5.56 and nothing else. Go with the MRP. |
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I own a LMT MRP and a SCAR H. IMO it depends on the caliber as both have pros and cons. For 5.56 I went with the LMT. Easier to obtain parts and Ive heard they have great customer service. I use P Mags so there is no modification needed (you have to do this with the SCAR L). For .308 I went with the SCAR H. One of the lightest .308 rifles there this. Recoil is not that much more than you average 5.56 AR. Supposidly with the SCAR H you can convert it to 5.56 and any thing in between (if FN decides to release a conversion kit). Only draw back to the SCAR H is that parts and mags are hard to obtain. LMT does offer a .308 version (in use by british military) but they dont offer a piston system (hopefully they will develop one). Both are great weapons and you cant go wrong with either one. Cool. Where did you find the SCAR H? I've been looking for a .308 SCAR for months and have not been able to find one in stock (without paying 3k +) anywhere. Its nice to hear that the SCAR H doesn't beat the crap out of you like some semi-auto .308's. I suspect the muzzle brake on the SCAR has something to do with that. I put a DPMS Mucilek brake on my LMT and it cut recoil and muzzle rise to near .22 rimfire levels. (The blast and noise is nasty though). LMT customer service is top-notch by the way. I sheared one of the MRP bolts mounting the barrel to the upper. LMT had new ones to me within a week, free of charge. |
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I'm not a fan of the SCAR 16S. You lose all the customizable abilities and ease of parts that the AR-15 provides. The SCAR is also heavier and bulkier. I'd easily chose the MRP over it. However, if you are talking about the 17S, that is a different story. That rifle is truly a revolution in the .308 platform. It's remarkably lighter than any competition and such a soft-shooting gun with the PWS brake. Now, you say you are looking for a patrol rifle. To me that screams 5.56 and nothing else. Go with the MRP. The Scar is NOT heavier than an AR15. It's lighter if anything, depending on what you put on it. Your statement about it being bulkier is argumentative, not sure what you think is bulky about it, but the folding stock will combat that argument. Don't forget the Scar 16 has a light weight barrel on it, making the rest of the platform appear "bulkier" than it really is. 
OP: I have both, several LMT's (MRP's and Standards) and FN Scar's. I would say the Scar hands down is a better platform, it addresses every desire wanted from an AR15. But if you plan on using it for LE work I would go with the LMT. For the sole reason that there are not many parts available for the Scar yet. The LMT will do you well. I have brought my LMT in the bottom picture through a few carbine courses, it's never failed me once. FN SCAR 
TOP: LMT Standard with Knight's RAS rail. BOTTOM: LMT CQB MRP 
LMT with Knight's Armament URX II rail 
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| LMT is an excellent decision and I use the MRP piston for patrol use. I haven't shot the SCAR yet (have some friends with some) but, have handled a few and do like them. But, since your looking for a rifle for patrol use I would go with the LMT. Being in the AR platform it would be to your benefit to have a rifle that your coworkers could use if you are unable to use it. (injured, they have better access, and etc.) Not that the SCAR is bad but, just that the AR platform has more familiar controls and is used more by LEO's than the SCAR. Spikes tactical sells a 22 conversion kit for the LMT and you can train on the cheap. |
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I have all of the rifles spoken about here, but I use a 6921 (bi-lock on the end of it) with RAS II rail, SOPMOD stock, and T1 for work. I would not hesitate to use my SCAR 16, MRP with piston or without piston, and would truly love to carry a .308 in my SCAR-17 or MWS.
To the original OP, I notice that my SCAR 16 recoils so slowly that I believe I could pull the trigger faster than the rifle cycles. The cyclic rate is noticeably slower than that of 6920 or the LMT MRP with piston or without, and I guess you could say it is a very soft recoiling rifle as well. But in that slow cyclic rate, for me it becomes a dwell time issue for shot recovery. It is so slow that if I want to shoot quickly, say at a close target, I feel as though I have to wait for the rifle to finish its cycle before I can even think about recovering my sight (I use Aimpoints exclusively) and pressing the next shot. This might fare well in a full auto gun, but I am too used to the 900-1000 rpm cycle. In all, I prefer the shooting experience of the MRP with piston because it is a very easy recoiling rifle, AND it allows me to recover my sight for the next shot very quickly. This is just my $.02. |
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I have all of the rifles spoken about here, but I use a 6921 (bi-lock on the end of it) with RAS II rail, SOPMOD stock, and T1 for work. I would not hesitate to use my SCAR 16, MRP with piston or without piston, and would truly love to carry a .308 in my SCAR-17 or MWS. To the original OP, I notice that my SCAR 16 recoils so slowly that I believe I could pull the trigger faster than the rifle cycles. The cyclic rate is noticeably slower than that of 6920 or the LMT MRP with piston or without, and I guess you could say it is a very soft recoiling rifle as well. But in that slow cyclic rate, for me it becomes a dwell time issue for shot recovery. It is so slow that if I want to shoot quickly, say at a close target, I feel as though I have to wait for the rifle to finish its cycle before I can even think about recovering my sight (I use Aimpoints exclusively) and pressing the next shot. This might fare well in a full auto gun, but I am too used to the 900-1000 rpm cycle. In all, I prefer the shooting experience of the MRP with piston because it is a very easy recoiling rifle, AND it allows me to recover my sight for the next shot very quickly. This is just my $.02. You must have some type of super hero finger. I find it hard to believe your finger can beat the cycle rate. |
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I do not own an LMT. I DO own an LWRC. IMO, the same basic issuesa are in play. The LMT is a piston AR, so many of the pros and cons are there. In general, i think the SCAR is a superior. Let me tell you why:
1) The gas system is incredibly well engineered. It's tunable, and very simple, mechanically. Honestly, the first time i took it apart, it was clear to me why this das system is superior: not much can go wrong! 2) Better bolt: the SCAR bolt is beefier than the AR bolt in every way. Plus, it only uses 6 lugs, instead of seven. My gues is that sheared bolt lugs are a thinkg of the past on the SCAR. Plus, the cam pin hole is much stronger. Also, the SCAR has a larger extractor which grips more of the case rim. 3) Charging handle. Some folk don;t liek teh reciprocating charging handle on teh SCAr, but I have found it be quite a nice feature. Certainly the location is superior to the rear handle on the AR. However, some care needs to be taken when selecting optics mounts. 4) The stock on the SCAR is very comfortable. The folding feature is nice, but not really necessary 5) Ambi mag release and selector, standard. 6) The front sight on the SCAR is fully adjustable and attached to teh gas block. You make all zeroing adjustments with the front sight. And when you swap barrels, you're also swapping the sights... sot eh zero follows the barrel. Nice feature, IMO. 7) Long recoil impulse. this makes the SCAR very soft shooting and follow-up shots are a breeze. Conclusion: Nothing wrong with a top qaulity piston AR like an LWRC or an LMT. But let's put it this way... my SCAR gets shot a LOT more than my M6A2, and I really like the A2. But the SCAR is just better. |
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I have all of the rifles spoken about here, but I use a 6921 (bi-lock on the end of it) with RAS II rail, SOPMOD stock, and T1 for work. I would not hesitate to use my SCAR 16, MRP with piston or without piston, and would truly love to carry a .308 in my SCAR-17 or MWS. To the original OP, I notice that my SCAR 16 recoils so slowly that I believe I could pull the trigger faster than the rifle cycles. The cyclic rate is noticeably slower than that of 6920 or the LMT MRP with piston or without, and I guess you could say it is a very soft recoiling rifle as well. But in that slow cyclic rate, for me it becomes a dwell time issue for shot recovery. It is so slow that if I want to shoot quickly, say at a close target, I feel as though I have to wait for the rifle to finish its cycle before I can even think about recovering my sight (I use Aimpoints exclusively) and pressing the next shot. This might fare well in a full auto gun, but I am too used to the 900-1000 rpm cycle. In all, I prefer the shooting experience of the MRP with piston because it is a very easy recoiling rifle, AND it allows me to recover my sight for the next shot very quickly. This is just my $.02. The SCAR's tuned cyclic rate is 600-650 rpm. In order to pull the trigger faster than teh cyclic rate, you have to do faster than 1/10th iof a second. I've seen guys quick on a trigger, but not many that can fire than fast consistently. |
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I have all of the rifles spoken about here, but I use a 6921 (bi-lock on the end of it) with RAS II rail, SOPMOD stock, and T1 for work. I would not hesitate to use my SCAR 16, MRP with piston or without piston, and would truly love to carry a .308 in my SCAR-17 or MWS. To the original OP, I notice that my SCAR 16 recoils so slowly that I believe I could pull the trigger faster than the rifle cycles. The cyclic rate is noticeably slower than that of 6920 or the LMT MRP with piston or without, and I guess you could say it is a very soft recoiling rifle as well. But in that slow cyclic rate, for me it becomes a dwell time issue for shot recovery. It is so slow that if I want to shoot quickly, say at a close target, I feel as though I have to wait for the rifle to finish its cycle before I can even think about recovering my sight (I use Aimpoints exclusively) and pressing the next shot. This might fare well in a full auto gun, but I am too used to the 900-1000 rpm cycle. In all, I prefer the shooting experience of the MRP with piston because it is a very easy recoiling rifle, AND it allows me to recover my sight for the next shot very quickly. This is just my $.02. The SCAR's tuned cyclic rate is 600-650 rpm. In order to pull the trigger faster than teh cyclic rate, you have to do faster than 1/10th iof a second. I've seen guys quick on a trigger, but not many that can fire than fast consistently. Agreed, or that fast consistently and on target. |
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I have all of the rifles spoken about here, but I use a 6921 (bi-lock on the end of it) with RAS II rail, SOPMOD stock, and T1 for work. I would not hesitate to use my SCAR 16, MRP with piston or without piston, and would truly love to carry a .308 in my SCAR-17 or MWS. To the original OP, I notice that my SCAR 16 recoils so slowly that I believe I could pull the trigger faster than the rifle cycles. The cyclic rate is noticeably slower than that of 6920 or the LMT MRP with piston or without, and I guess you could say it is a very soft recoiling rifle as well. But in that slow cyclic rate, for me it becomes a dwell time issue for shot recovery. It is so slow that if I want to shoot quickly, say at a close target, I feel as though I have to wait for the rifle to finish its cycle before I can even think about recovering my sight (I use Aimpoints exclusively) and pressing the next shot. This might fare well in a full auto gun, but I am too used to the 900-1000 rpm cycle. In all, I prefer the shooting experience of the MRP with piston because it is a very easy recoiling rifle, AND it allows me to recover my sight for the next shot very quickly. This is just my $.02. The SCAR's tuned cyclic rate is 600-650 rpm. In order to pull the trigger faster than teh cyclic rate, you have to do faster than 1/10th iof a second. I've seen guys quick on a trigger, but not many that can fire than fast consistently. Agreed, or that fast consistently and on target. Maybe i should have said I "feel" like i could pull it faster than the cyclic rate. It is not a specific claim, but my point is that I can recover from my shot with the MRP piston faster than the SCAR when firing either in semi-auto. I am with Strongbow regarding the advantages and strong features over the M4; it's just a really fine rifle, and I love owning them. But in the end, I am too used to the AR family and would bring a variant of one to the fight. If the guy next to me in that fight had a SCAR, I'd be glad he picked it because it too is a fine machine. Now if I can bring my SCAR 17, that's a different matter... |
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Just shot my SCAR 16S in less than ideal conditions, was in the middle of a mid-day thunderstorm while trying to sight in a ACOG TA31ECO.
(I should have set the damn CCD gopro camera to spot metering, sorry not so good of pic here). I was in #30 spot, oldest bro to my left: 
I finally setlled on a setting that I was happy with the results. The recoil impulse is smooth, at least when compared to other ARs (sighted in a Colt LE6920 too just before the SCAR). Shot intervals was about 8-12 seconds, 19 rounds using regular Winchester 55gr white box FMJ ammo. It was raining so much that sometimes I found it hard to see the target but then I'd send one when there was a brief moment of no wind. 
The target was soaked for hours even after I got home. Hence the wrinkle line. 
I'm sure the A2 is a good gun, I even shot a friend's A2 when I was deciding on the next gun. I love shooting the SCAR. |
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I have all of the rifles spoken about here, but I use a 6921 (bi-lock on the end of it) with RAS II rail, SOPMOD stock, and T1 for work. I would not hesitate to use my SCAR 16, MRP with piston or without piston, and would truly love to carry a .308 in my SCAR-17 or MWS. To the original OP, I notice that my SCAR 16 recoils so slowly that I believe I could pull the trigger faster than the rifle cycles. The cyclic rate is noticeably slower than that of 6920 or the LMT MRP with piston or without, and I guess you could say it is a very soft recoiling rifle as well. But in that slow cyclic rate, for me it becomes a dwell time issue for shot recovery. It is so slow that if I want to shoot quickly, say at a close target, I feel as though I have to wait for the rifle to finish its cycle before I can even think about recovering my sight (I use Aimpoints exclusively) and pressing the next shot. This might fare well in a full auto gun, but I am too used to the 900-1000 rpm cycle. In all, I prefer the shooting experience of the MRP with piston because it is a very easy recoiling rifle, AND it allows me to recover my sight for the next shot very quickly. This is just my $.02. The SCAR's tuned cyclic rate is 600-650 rpm. In order to pull the trigger faster than teh cyclic rate, you have to do faster than 1/10th iof a second. I've seen guys quick on a trigger, but not many that can fire than fast consistently. Agreed, or that fast consistently and on target. Maybe i should have said I "feel" like i could pull it faster than the cyclic rate. It is not a specific claim, but my point is that I can recover from my shot with the MRP piston faster than the SCAR when firing either in semi-auto. I am with Strongbow regarding the advantages and strong features over the M4; it's just a really fine rifle, and I love owning them. But in the end, I am too used to the AR family and would bring a variant of one to the fight. If the guy next to me in that fight had a SCAR, I'd be glad he picked it because it too is a fine machine. Now if I can bring my SCAR 17, that's a different matter... I don't begrudge you the choice at all.... Lik eI said, I LOVE my LWRC M6A2. And given LMT's usual quality, I can't imagine the MRP is anything other than a great rifle. |
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