AR Sponsor
Posted: 2/9/2014 3:04:30 PM EDT
|
I've finally got the itch to do a ground - up build, something I've put on the back burner for too long. I've owned and sold 2 AR's - a DPMS without so much as a tear, and a much nicer accurized Colt HBAR that I had to sell to finish grad school. Now that the time and money are right, I want to get back http://<ahttp://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o185/Zipperin/cheap-xm-clone-stick.jpg</a>" />into this. I've already got the tools and jigs and a good working knowledge of how it all goes together. What worries me the most is that I've missed the boat on some of these parts.
I want to build a shorty, XM clone with the 11.5 barrel and the 5.5 end piece, pinned and welded. I also want to avoid all NFA issues and having to buy a stamp. http:// Where do I start? Matt |
|
Just depends on how authentic you want your build to be. You can get all the info you need here, but you can also check out www.retroblackrifle.com. There is a section over there showing military carbines and which parts they use. Also, check out Ekies sticky at the top of the RETRO section.........carbine parts.
Your picture shows a somewhat inaccurate 177E2 build. The xm177e2 used the 11.5 inch barrel like you want. Member "Brick" here machines the faux moderator you want. Unlike your picture, the E2 used a Delta ring, not a straight slip ring. The E2 also would have used a vinyl acetate coated stock, not a fiberlite like shown in your picture........just depends on how authentic you want. You can get A1 style lowers from NoDakSpud, but they have quite a waiting list right now. You might can buy a 11.5 inch barrel, or you can have a 16" carbine barrel cut down. (member John Thomas does barrel work) 6 hole handguards come up fairly often in the EE and on GB. ........just tell us how close you want to get, and someone will guide you along. Lots of good people here in this forum. |
|
Thanks for the info. I get confused on the versions/matching/legalities/type issues between models. For example, do I need to build the shorty on a A1 lower? Is that because of the preban/postban thing? I'd hate to have to wait for year for a lower when so many other lowers out there are available. It doesn't have to be a matching numbers type thing like a retro Chevelle with the correct 427. I just want a heavy-duty short barreled 5.56 that I can tweak here and there with a few custom parts, engravings, coatings, and optics. The maneuverability is the issue. I have all the long-barreled varmint guns I need.
I've emailed around a bit for the 11.5 inch barrel, tony's customs, etc.... does not seem to be too many out there right now. But I've already found the 5.5 inch faux moderator/compensator here, so that's a start. Some things I'd like: 11.5" barrel with good quality like PT/MPI tested in 5.56, chrome or not, possibly even hammer forged. M4 feed ramps... Hard to get a short barrel from someone like Bravo as NFA rules apply and they don't do the combo 5.5 end. Upper with FA, flat top for optics options, removable carry handle CAR type folder http:// I looked hard at this one, should have ponied up then.... http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o185/Zipperin/olycara3ft3.jpg I'll read the retro stickies - thanks for the great info.!! Matt |
|
The cut to the chase would be how do I build ANY variation (lower, upper. etc.) of the short XM guns legally without running into the SBR dilemma?
Seems that there are tons of you tube builds out there, and many barrels @ 14.5" that are under the 16" minimum with the pinned and welded comp/moderator/flash hider add-on. Looks as if that's the same with companies out there selling the 14.5 barrels. Next step down in length always get the NFA disclaimer? I see the pinned and welded 5.5 compensator/moderator/ as the sticking point. Can someone give me the skinny on what I need to do for a shorty build? Matt |
|
First, no you don't have to use a Nodak lower unless you're really afflicted with our retro black rifle disease. Nodak's lowers are the closest thing to early style lowers that you can find, and they are of outstanding quality. But if you're not that concerned about looking "correct," you can certainly build your shorty on a modern "A2" style lower. (It really wouldn't look right on a modern billet lower like a Lancer, though!)
Many of us build retro rifles on A2 lowers, either for simplicity (I usually have a couple laying around the workbench) or as a temporary solution while we wait for our order from Nodak. Away from the dedicated cadre here on the board, few ever notice the difference. My recommendations: For the barrel, search GunBroker for terms like "XM Moderator" and see if you can find one from Brick (probably the closest reproduction to the original mods). Then find a 14.5" or 16" pencil barrel (thin profile, and .625" under the FSB). This doesn't even have to be an original Colt, so pick the rifling twist you want. Next, send the barrel and moderator to ADCO or to one of the members here who does the work (Braceman? John Thomas?) and ask them to cut and thread the barrel, then mount and pin the mod to reach 16.1 to 16.25 inches total. They'll know what is needed--as long as the mod is not easily removed and the total length is no less than 16", you don't need to worry about the NFA. While they're doing your barrel, start looking for a pre-A2 upper (you can decide on forward assist or no forward assist, and you can even get away with a brass deflector if that's important to you). Again, I understand you're not looking for real "authenticity, but the A2 rear sight (though a fine improvement) stands out like a sore thumb. An XM-style carbine with an A2 upper is not an XM-style upper. As for the stock, the early aluminum ones from Colt are pretty expensive these days, but the fiber version without the reinforcing ribs have a similar look. The advice above will give you a reasonable approximation of an XM177 carbine, and at a reasonable price. Of course, later carbines came in all sorts of flavors, so build what you like. but the XM177's are just plain sexy. ETA: The A2 rear sight is ugly on a retro rifle, but the A2 rear sight attached to a removable carry handle is an abomination to all that is decent in the world. |
|
Quoted:
The cut to the chase would be how do I build ANY variation (lower, upper. etc.) of the short XM guns legally without running into the SBR dilemma? Seems that there are tons of you tube builds out there, and many barrels @ 14.5" that are under the 16" minimum with the pinned and welded comp/moderator/flash hider add-on. Looks as if that's the same with companies out there selling the 14.5 barrels. Next step down in length always get the NFA disclaimer? I see the pinned and welded 5.5 compensator/moderator/ as the sticking point. Can someone give me the skinny on what I need to do for a shorty build? Matt First of all, look at retroblackrifle.com and the model 629. The XM177E2 build is best done with a ltwt 14.5" or 16" barrel and a pinned moderator like Bricks. Do not be tempted by HighpoweredArmory stuff. Go with Brick -he sells on GB too. The 5.5 faux moderator just doesn't look right to us retro guys - I didn't know the difference at first either, but now it sticks out like a sore thumb, at least as far as I'm concerned. Just my .02 The other thing I recommend is going back several pages and looking at XM177 threads. You can see a lot of pics and get a lot of info that way. Welcome to the forum! ETA: Too slow - Olgunner beat me to it. SHouldn't you be working? 
|
|
Many thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I am sure there will be many more questions as "the abomination" takes shape. I can certainly appreciate your enthusiasm for
period pieces - I have a pre-'64 Model 70 in .220 Swift that just got a period correct Lyman Targetspot. Leuopold just wouldn't do..... God Bless
Matt |
|
Just my honest opinion, but that faux maderator is going to make your rifle handle like a greyhound bus. They in many cases take a nice maneuverable lightweight rifle and turn them into a front heavy rifle with less velocity and the same length as a 16" rifle
If I were going for a retro-ish carbine build I would do a Colt 653 with a 14.5 barrel and pinned FH. Much lighter, better handling. |
|
Quoted:
Just my honest opinion, but that faux maderator is going to make your rifle handle like a greyhound bus. They in many cases take a nice maneuverable lightweight rifle and turn them into a front heavy rifle with less velocity and the same length as a 16" rifle If I were going for a retro-ish carbine build I would do a Colt 653 with a 14.5 barrel and pinned FH. Much lighter, better handling. Bear in mind that a 14.5" barrel with standard birdcage FH is an NFA item--even pinned. You'll need an extended FH or some sort of spacer to get the overall length to a full 16". That measly quarter inch is asinine...but that's our gubmint! |
AR Sponsor