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Posted: 6/11/2010 12:36:57 AM EDT
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Been looking at some M14 kits - would be nice to have a semi auto version just for the "retro" of it - and would be fun to shoot. They sure are expensive! Fulton Armory - M14
Even the kits - less the $900 after-market receiver - are really high! LRB M14 Kits If I understand correctly they cannot be modified to be semi-auto - you have to buy a SA receiver? Kind of cool that they are making a bit of a comeback in Iraq/Afghanistan these days. |
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M14's are still in use by the military in the form of sniper rifles (I believe).
Question for you guys: I was talking to a range officer not too long ago who owns a full auto M14, and he said that he needs a key to make it function as such. My dad used to tell me the same thing about M14's. What do they mean by key? |
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M14's are still in use by the military in the form of sniper rifles (I believe). Question for you guys: I was talking to a range officer not too long ago who owns a full auto M14, and he said that he needs a key to make it function as such. My dad used to tell me the same thing about M14's. What do they mean by key? Squad Designated Marksmen rifles, FYI. The snipers from our company team had an M24, M-16A4 and a Barrett. Every platoon had one M-14 for their SDM. That's how our companies worked anyway. Not saying it's the case everywhere though. 
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That's interesting. I wasn't sure exactly what a SDM was but found this on wikipedia
The SDM is not meant to be a squad sniper who engages the enemy with precision fire at extreme ranges, but instead is trained to directly support the squad with well-aimed shots at ranges slightly beyond the normal engagement distances for riflemen.
It also mentioned that the weapon for such was a "accurized M16 rifle" - what prompted the recent revitalization of the M14 in this role? The caliber, extended range...? I've gotten several IMs about kits - might be a fun project. |
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The M14 is certainly "retro" in the sense the Army trained with it until circa 1969 even though it was issuing the M16 in Vietnam. Troops in Europe carried until the early 1970s. Most ARNG and USAR units moved from the M1 to M16 circa 1972 and skipped the M14 completely which was used in foreign military sales.
The M14 was revived as a long range rifle officially and unofficially as far back as 1990. Still a 300 meter rifle with iron sights but carries a heavier bullet out to that range well. With optics it can easily go reliably to 500 meters. Anything past that range requires a gifted, or at least well trained shooter. Plan to spend $2000 on a M14-type rifle if you want top quality. Used will run a bit lower. The LRB receiver is the current darling of the M14 crowd. USGI "kits" are rare and expensive mainly because the Army started using the M14 again several years ago as a long range rifle and took back all the parts it could get it's hands on. CMP used to sell M14 parts. Not in maybe 10 years. Smith Enterprise is another top tier M14-type rifle. Fulton Armory is glossy, but the quality wasn't there the last time I checked. Springfield Armory continues to produce an excellent M14-clone in the guise of their M1A rifle. Used to be mostly USGI parts but is now commercial. Early all-USGI M1As are very nice rifles! Here's two on mine with traditional wood stocks: Top is my H&R "M14". All USGI H&R parts on a Springfield M1A receiver. Bottom is my Springfield M1A Bush model. A mix us Springfield and USGI parts. There's no weigh difference between the two, the Bush barrel is larger diameter. 
Size comparison between the Bush model and a 14.5" DSA 7.62mm NATO "AR-type." 
–– Chuck |
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M14's are still in use by the military in the form of sniper rifles (I believe). Question for you guys: I was talking to a range officer not too long ago who owns a full auto M14, and he said that he needs a key to make it function as such. My dad used to tell me the same thing about M14's. What do they mean by key? No, you don't need a key or anything to make it fire full auto. A persons M14 is either full auto capable or semi auto only at the time, but all M14s are can fire full auto depending on what parts are installed. The rifle must have a selector installed to be able to fire full auto. Most M14s have a selector lock installed which only allows semi auto fire. This one has a selector switch: 
This one has a selector lock: 
The change only requires a couple of small parts but can only be done by an armorer. Most NM M14s and M21s had the full auto parts welded so that they will only fire semi auto. The differences between an M14 receiver and semi auto commercial M14 type receiver are a protrusion on the bottom for the full auto parts to install to, a dismount notch half way down the operating rod guide, and a groove in the bottom front of the receiver for the connector to sit in. Cast semi auto receivers are larger in some areas for more strength. If you have any more questions you can IM me. Dustin |
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The M14 Firing Line is a pretty decent forum for all things M-14-style. Pay close attention to Gus Fisher's board therein:
Bang Head Here |
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M14's are still in use by the military in the form of sniper rifles (I believe). Question for you guys: I was talking to a range officer not too long ago who owns a full auto M14, and he said that he needs a key to make it function as such. My dad used to tell me the same thing about M14's. What do they mean by key? No, you don't need a key or anything to make it fire full auto. A persons M14 is either full auto at the time or semi auto at the time, but all M14s are full auto capable. The rifle must have a selector installed to be able to fire full auto. Most M14s have a selector lock installed which only allows semi auto fire. This one has a selector switch: http://www.nicolausassociates.com/images/M14-Postcard-Download.jpg This one has a selector lock: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/M14-large.jpg The change only requires a couple of small parts but can only be done by an armorer. Most NM M14s and M21s had the full auto parts welded so that they will only fire semi auto. The differences between an M14 receiver and semi auto commercial M14 type receiver are a protrusion on the bottom for the full auto parts to install to, a dismount notch half way down the operating rod guide, and a groove in the bottom front of the receiver for the connector to sit in. Cast semi auto receivers are larger in some areas for more strength. If you have any more questions you can IM me. Dustin Thanks for your info! I understand now why they think a "key" is needed. I was showing my dad how my AR's will only flip into the semi selector position, and he was thinking that it needed a key as well in order to toggle full auto, even though I kept telling him the rifle was semi-auto. He has no experience with M14's or M16's. He was an Army machine gunner (carried the .30 cal and later carried the M60), and he went through basic with an M1. He was leaving the Army (in 1963) when the M16 was being phased in. |
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I have a bunch of USGI M14 parts I have collected over the years but instead of building another M14 I am thinking of trading them for 604 parts. Good or bad idea? As long as you get the same value in 604 parts as you give in M14 parts there is nothing wrong with it. Also, would a complete (or another complete) M16 clone or a complete (or another complete) M14 clone give you more satisfaction? Which would you take to the range more? Which would you rather give to your kids? I love all types of US Military rifles, but the M14 is above the others for me. Dustin |
My ultimate bush rifle would be a LaFrance M14K with Alpine folding stock. Here are some pics I stole shamelessly from a recent thread. They used an M60 gas system to soften recoil. Apparently it really works. If I could have one gun when TEOTWAWKI happens, this would be it. 
You can see how much shorter the LaFrance folder is here than the Beretta BM59 Alpine folder, previously my fav. 
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Dummy "selectors" –– with or without the lever –– are available. I have these on both of my "M14s." They mount to the stock and are purely cosmetic.
 <––- Click the photo for a link.
There were few M14s with the selector lever in service –– the button was standard –– but the rifle has always been considered a "machine gun" by ATF. Witness the MKS fiasco 10 years ago using the welded de-militarized receivers. –– Chuck |
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Love that M-14K Morg. Been wanting a BM-59 para stock for a while but at the current 4-5 hundred asking....eh I ain't feeling it. The S2 would look killer in one.
A shot of my old M-1A(SA factory built with GI parts) and my Socom II. Wonder if the LaFrance is lighter? Looks heavy but the Socom is a hoss. 
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Love that M-14K Morg. Been wanting a BM-59 para stock for a while but at the current 4-5 hundred asking....eh I ain't feeling it. And that's when you can even find one! 
Better yet, try looking for one with the correct plastic pistol grip and folding buttplate. If, IF!, you see one for sale, it will be more like $600-ish. 
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My ultimate bush rifle would be a LaFrance M14K with Alpine folding stock. Here are some pics I stole shamelessly from a recent thread. They used an M60 gas system to soften recoil. Apparently it really works. If I could have one gun when TEOTWAWKI happens, this would be it.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/Morg308/m14kl.jpg http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/Morg308/m14kc.jpg http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/Morg308/m14k.jpg http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/Morg308/m14kfs.jpg Put me in for one too. I bet those 'lil bastards are LOUD |
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Those are some nice looking rifles there! I like the Nigerian stock on that one. I really like the Bush Rifle that LRB sells. If I had the coin, I'd probably spring for one. Maybe .308 will come down in price after the war's over? (10 years from now...  )If you're referring to the pics in the post above your's, that's an E2 stock, not a Nigerian. |
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A removable selector switch.
Here's my rifle. I bought it in California while I was stationed there in the 90s, that's why there's no bayonet lug.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us |
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In a world ending situation I would take my short gas Para FAL.It's what the above rifles are trying to be. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x140/torquemada55/PICT4217.jpg Oh yeah! Thats nice. Details pls. Who did the work on your FAL? I've been thinking about a super short FAL like that. Mines a full length SAR-48 masquerading as a SA R1. 
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Cool photo.  |
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My ultimate bush rifle would be a LaFrance M14K with Alpine folding stock. Here are some pics I stole shamelessly from a recent thread. They used an M60 gas system to soften recoil. Apparently it really works. If I could have one gun when TEOTWAWKI happens, this would be it.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/Morg308/m14kl.jpg http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/Morg308/m14kc.jpg http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/Morg308/m14k.jpg http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/Morg308/m14kfs.jpg You can see how much shorter the LaFrance folder is here than the Beretta BM59 Alpine folder, previously my fav. http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/Morg308/m1a1-alpine.jpg Now that is one fine peice of metal and wood. One day I am going to have one of those built. Or buy a Xfer'able M14 and have it built. Apparently on automatic, the M14K is where its at. Besides an M16 and M1 garand.... the M14/M1A is one of my favorites. I am going to shoot it tommorrow at a 25m, 300m and 500m. It sat in the back of my truck for a while and the rear sight screw came loose. knocking the perfect zero off. I need to get it set at 25m. Things line up perfect when that is done. My handcrafted reloads help. They make padded cases for a reason. |
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The short gas Para FAL was built for me by Adam762 of the FALfiles.
I used a DSA Type 2 upper as that was the only thing I had available at the time and I also had all brand new Aussie parts for the rest of the kit. Adam supplied the modified Inch lower and we got a DSA folder and para group for the upper. http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=286513 http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=277133&highlight=l1a1+para Anyhow, I hope this helps, the links make it easier to see who to contact and you can go from there. Btw, yes I am very fond of my L1A1's. But, the FAMILY is much happier with the AR platform. What can I say, they are mostly all smaller than I am........ 
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The short gas Para FAL was built for me by Adam762 of the FALfiles. I used a DSA Type 2 upper as that was the only thing I had available at the time and I also had all brand new Aussie parts for the rest of the kit. Adam supplied the modified Inch lower and we got a DSA folder and para group for the upper. http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=286513 http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=277133&highlight=l1a1+para Anyhow, I hope this helps, the links make it easier to see who to contact and you can go from there. Btw, yes I am very fond of my L1A1's. But, the FAMILY is much happier with the AR platform. What can I say, they are mostly all smaller than I am........ Again very nice and thanks for the info. Yeah I've got a butt load of 5.56 weapons but my favs are the 7.62s. If something needs sorting out once and for all a .308 MBR is the answer. |
| Back to old pics. in country again. M-14, plated flak jacket, green slash pocket jungles, single mag pouches, "BATA" jungle boots, plastic issued watch. As much as i love my AR's it will be hard to ever have a weapon that did the job at hand any better than my wonderful M-14 did in 1966. http://i50.tinypic.com/2z7imnb.jpg |
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This is cool, but man, you guys are getting me started on M-14's now. Not good... I just caught the M14 bug myself, here's what I ended up with: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=6&t=315882 |
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How about a few Thompsons..these are pretty retro: http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o74/joefriday22/Tommyguncollection.jpg Not mine and I can't begin to remember where I found the picture so no credits to go with it. Rob Damn ! Half a million plus worth of Thompsons |
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