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Posted: 4/20/2009 6:23:16 PM EDT
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I have an A1 contract upper that was made by Capco/ Martin Marietta. It is black. Barrel is MP/C and it is now on my NDS Black A1 lower. It was originally on a preban Essential Arms lower as a whole rifle that I bought in mint condition. I have since sold the EA lower to a preban state. (It was grey and the upper was black and it was a two tone look I didn't like anyway.) I think Essential originally bought overrun contract uppers, slapped them on their lowers and sold them as whole guns.
My basic question is when did A1 rifles appear all in Black? Also does any one know when Capco and Martin Marietta made my upper? When the contract was since it is black? My upper also had a delta ring which I traded for a slip ring but it still has an A2 door on it. I am guessing it was made in the early 80s? 
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The military ones were always various shades of gray. It wasn't until the commercial uppers and lowers came out that they started showing up in black. Once the uppers could be manufactured by contractors they chose to do them in black. I'm not really sure why the aftermarket companies chose black instead of gray. Most of the black lowers seen on military M16's have been refinished at a Depot like Anniston Army Depot. I'm not sure what that black stuff is but it doesn't come off!
In years past I owned several pre ban PWA lowers with PM marked uppers. Both had a nice dull black color to them. If you were lucky back in the day you could get a purple upper or charging handle from Nesard!!! 
OH MY GOD!!! This picture was taken 20 years ago!!! 
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The military ones were always various shades of gray. It wasn't until the commercial uppers and lowers came out that they started showing up in black. Once the uppers could be manufactured by contractors they chose to do them in black. I'm not really sure why the aftermarket companies chose black instead of gray. Most of the black lowers seen on military M16's have been refinished at a Depot like Anniston Army Depot. I'm not sure what that black stuff is but it doesn't come off! In years past I owned several pre ban PWA lowers with PM marked uppers. Both had a nice dull black color to them. If you were lucky back in the day you could get a purple upper or charging handle from Nesard!!! http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/501/medium/PWAAR15_002.jpg OH MY GOD!!! This picture was taken 20 years ago!!! http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/medium/45Bravo19.jpg I think the black stuff is actually Norrell's moly resin, and it is not easy to remove. I wonder why the sp1 series had an even lighter gray finish than most of the military rifles and whether or not that was done intentionally. |
Here is my A1 that I bought in 1983, and all parts are original to the rifle, so I guess it is not considered retro
http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/Pericles-photo/arammo.jpg Notice the upper is gray (L M) marked, and it has what is referred to here as the A2 door. The lower is SGW 18xx(and yes it came with M16 parts). I got it intended to be a 603, but as we know now, the FA, port door, sling would have to be replaced. Or gather the appropriate parts and wait on a NDS A1 lower. What to do? The answer was obvious. http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/Pericles-photo/build.jpg |
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The military ones were always various shades of gray. It wasn't until the commercial uppers and lowers came out that they started showing up in black. Once the uppers could be manufactured by contractors they chose to do them in black. I'm not really sure why the aftermarket companies chose black instead of gray. Most of the black lowers seen on military M16's have been refinished at a Depot like Anniston Army Depot. I'm not sure what that black stuff is but it doesn't come off! I'm sorry - much as I respect your opinion, I'm not buying it. I know you're an armorer, but what about the black uppers and lowers I've seen in late VN pics? I have an upper in my possession I'm about to send a friend - it is brand new. I've seen the black refinished uppers, but this looks to be original anodizing IMO or some other professionally applied finish. The barrel is marked C MB so early chrome circa 1972 or so. I can't remember the forge codes on the upper, but have to dig it out this week. It is not a spray painted or refinished XM upper like some I've seen. The whole thing reads mid-seventies. I know early A2's were even grey, but this upper is 100% new, replacement, not rearsennalled IMO. I have to ship it to my buddy soon, maybe I can get his okay to have you look at it first? I'm telling you though, the thing is pristine. FWIW, has anyone considered that the US military may have utilized a moly coating after the SEALs proved Kal-guard on the Mk4 Mod O in VN? That would certainly explain why coatings like this are so hard to remove, and also explain my upper - so nice it could be a Mk4 ModO upper that never got off the shelf. I know I'm going out on a limb here, but I've seen uppers spraypainted grey, and yet I have this one which is, I swear, NEW, and if it was redone by guys in an armory, then they were talented as hell. I'm willing to have you look at it for evaluation - I'm sure my friend would be as well. Just stirring the pot... 
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Steveszz5 posted some pics of his dad (Air Force) with a black slickside in Vietnam in 1968 in this post. That doesn't necessarily mean 45bravo is wrong, it could be refinished. However, it is military, and in the '60's.
ETA: I like the black ones, got the barts together to build one last year, but haven't got around to assembling it yet: 
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| When I was in the Army (mid 1980's), Most of the A1s we had were black, ALL BLACK. This was true for the Colts and the H&Rs. Were they all arsenal refinished . . . who knows. For some strange reason, the Hydromatics that we had in Basic were not black. I remember them as having a "greenish" tint, but it would probably be considered grey. |
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My buddy bought a USAF 604 upper (it has the milled-down forward assist hump), brand spanking new, and it is black. It's absolutely '60s vintage. IMHO (and his) there's no way it was refinished. The thing is pristine. So that's actually a 605 upper, right? 
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My buddy bought a USAF 604 upper (it has the milled-down forward assist hump), brand spanking new, and it is black. It's absolutely '60s vintage. IMHO (and his) there's no way it was refinished. The thing is pristine. So that's actually a 605 upper, right? http://www.retroblackrifle.com/sitebuilder/images/605Bump-289x170.jpg Yes. 
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I have an A1 contract upper that was made by Capco/ Martin Marietta. It is black. Barrel is MP/C and it is now on my NDS Black A1 lower. It was originally on a preban Essential Arms lower as a whole rifle that I bought in mint condition. I have since sold the EA lower to a preban state. (It was grey and the upper was black and it was a two tone look I didn't like anyway.) I think Essential originally bought overrun contract uppers, slapped them on their lowers and sold them as whole guns. My basic question is when did A1 rifles appear all in Black? Also does any one know when Capco and Martin Marietta made my upper? When the contract was since it is black? My upper also had a delta ring which I traded for a slip ring but it still has an A2 door on it. I am guessing it was made in the early 80s? http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll126/mjkberg/M16A1/IMG_1696.jpg http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll126/mjkberg/M16A1/IMG_1692.jpg http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll126/mjkberg/M16A1/IMG_1698a.jpg You think wrong, Essential Arms never sold complete rifles. |
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I certainly wasn't trying to impugn 45Bravo's information - he is an armorer after all, and has likely forgotten more about these rifles than I will ever know, but I have seen pictures of rifles in Vietnam with black uppers or lowers, and pics dated not long after that ('75-76) with the entire rifle black. The date of the upper and barrel I have are both in the '72 timeframe, and they don't show the signs of most arsenal built 'paint jobs' I've seen. Without scratching it, I can't verify it's anodizing, but it sure is nice.
I have to pull it out this weekend to send to my friend Ol'Gunner, so I will take some pics. It's without a doubt the single nicest A1 upper condition-wise I've seen, but of of course, I haven't seen as many as some. I've noticed some dark grey colors migth as well be black - so maybe that's what I'm seeing, but it's not XM grey. IIRC, Victor at US anodizing mentioned that the Navy finish they do has a tone of blue in it, and is very dark, looks almost black. I will have to put it on a black lower for a pic for giggles, but it sure doesn't look refinished to me, looks like a new, replacement upper. |
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Let me try to clear the air...
It has been my experience over the last two decades that the vast majority of factory Colt M16's that I have handled have been finished in some shade of gray. When Colt allowed contractors to produce spare parts, including uppers, the color of the finish wasn't specified, only the type. This is likely when shades of black started to appear. I don't know exactly when Colt allowed contractors to produce upper receivers but it is likely that they could have been produced as far back as 1968. It was sometime in the mid 1970's that aftermarket AR15's started becoming commercially available. Most of those that I've seen and handled were finished in black. I think Essential Arms was one of the few to stay with the original Colt gray color. I currently have at two black A1 uppers. One is PM marked and the other has no forge code but does have Colt proofmarks in front of the ejection port. I cannot tell that it has been refinished but it is possible and there is no way that I know of to tell that it has not been refinished. As I've said before, I am not the sayer of so. I can only share my experience no matter how vast or minuscule. I wasn't around in 1968 so I can't say that I've ever handled an A1 at that time. But, I do know that pictures don't always tell the whole story, particularly when it comes to color. Pictures age as do our memories. |
I found this thread very interest since several months ago I was hammered for even suggesting that the CAR15s we were issued in El Salvador in the late 80s were black. Even after posting a photo I was again damned for believing the rifles in the photo could have possibly been black.
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Those 2 black ones look kinda funny to me with the gray port door and gray rear sight,,they really stick out llike a sore thumb!  Funny thing about the military, they don't really care that much about mixed and matching parts as long as it works when your done. 
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Let me try to clear the air... It has been my experience over the last two decades that the vast majority of factory Colt M16's that I have handled have been finished in some shade of gray. When Colt allowed contractors to produce spare parts, including uppers, the color of the finish wasn't specified, only the type. This is likely when shades of black started to appear. I don't know exactly when Colt allowed contractors to produce upper receivers but it is likely that they could have been produced as far back as 1968. It was sometime in the mid 1970's that aftermarket AR15's started becoming commercially available. Most of those that I've seen and handled were finished in black. I think Essential Arms was one of the few to stay with the original Colt gray color. I currently have at two black A1 uppers. One is PM marked and the other has no forge code but does have Colt proofmarks in front of the ejection port. I cannot tell that it has been refinished but it is possible and there is no way that I know of to tell that it has not been refinished. As I've said before, I am not the sayer of so. I can only share my experience no matter how vast or minuscule. I wasn't around in 1968 so I can't say that I've ever handled an A1 at that time. But, I do know that pictures don't always tell the whole story, particularly when it comes to color. Pictures age as do our memories. Sounds good to me. I have never seen a black SP1 ('64-'85) and those were all manufactured in-house by Colt. |
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I don't know about the off brand stuff but Cindy the head of Colt CS told me that Colt switched from Gray to black between late '98 to early '99. That was also the time frame that Colt switched from the pinned in steel sear block to the current production no machining in the sear area.
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| What is clear is that what Colt did and what the US military did with regards to color are two completely different stories. Colt lost the M16 contract to FN in 1988. M16A2's were black long before Colt switched its civilian production to black. Photos of military issue M16 variants showing black rather than grey before 1998 are common and I would not consider those rifles as being off brand. I would dare say the majority of those on the retro board when writing of retros are of the military issue type and not Colt's civilian line of AR15s. |
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Quoted: Basic Training 1980.. Two Black A1's and a Grey. 101 http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/scan000123.jpg Good trigger discipline. I'm 18, and many of my friends have joined the military. One friend in particular posted photos on facebook of him and his buddies in basic training aiming M16A4s at each other with magazines in their weapons with their fingers on the trigger. 
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Basic Training 1980.. Two Black A1's and a Grey. 101 http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/scan000123.jpg Good trigger discipline. I'm 18, and many of my friends have joined the military. One friend in particular posted photos on facebook of him and his buddies in basic training aiming M16A4s at each other with magazines in their weapons with their fingers on the trigger. BS detector going off. How on Earth are they able to take pics and screw off with operational weapons while in basic training? Sorry, but no. What did they take the pics with? They are not allowed cell phones or digital cameras. |
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BS detector going off. How on Earth are they able to take pics and screw off with operational weapons while in basic training? Sorry, but no. What did they take the pics with? They are not allowed cell phones or digital cameras. Trust me, there is tons of ways to get contraband like cameras into the barracks. Depending on where you are at in the training cycle, you have unescorted access to "shoppettes" were you are expected to get your toiletries and such replenished. They sell stuff like cameras and other "Pogey Bait" that are not allowed back in barrack but always do wind up there. |
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