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Posted: 7/27/2006 9:10:17 AM EDT
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Hi all, I've been lurking around the site for awhile now, and I'm really appreciating all the information that's out there. I think I'm becoming more interested in a retro upper for a new High Standard lower that I recently bought. Sounds like the CDNN uppers are considered a good deal. My question regards color matching the upper and the lower. I've read much about the Norell's finish, and a little about U.S. Anodizing. Wondering if it makes more sense to re-do the black lower to try to match the grey upper, or re-do the grey upper to match the black lower. Any opinions? I think the grey would be more authentic, but it sounds like it's tough to match that CDNN grey color.... Also, the Norell's seems to the favored way of refinishing. Not sure I want to attempt it myself right now (although it sounds like a fun project). Does anyone offer professional refinishing in Northern California / SF Bay area, in case I chicken out on doing it myself? Oh, and I see that Fulton Armory offers a "Legacy" slick side upper as well. Any opinions on their quality,etc? Thanks for your thoughts! |
IT's not CDNN's grey color here, as the color of the upper belongs to Colt whose SP1 uppers they are selling.  YMMV, but I'm not anal enough about upper and lower color matching to care one way or the other as it's the functionality of the weapon that carries the higher priority to me. Mike |
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My two cents. Buy the CDNN upper. Figure out what lower you want. Buy your retro parts (A1 PG, stock, & sling). Put your upper on the lower. If the color not matching bugs you that much, you have a few options. Get the Norrells Gray/Black & an airbrush gun from your local hobby shop. Airbrush and bake the lower. It still may not match, but may be close enough. If you just don't want to hassle it, send it to Norrell's Refinishing and let them do it right. From their website: Complete AR-15 and M-16 rifles and carbine..................$150. AR-15 and M-16 complete upper or complete lower receiver....$ 75. AR-15 and M-16 stripped upper or lower receiver (no parts)..$ 60. We specialize in refinishing AR-15 and M-16 rifles and carbines to several original Colt colors. We offer three colors that match many Colt rifles but in some instances they will not match perfectly to your upper or lower as there are more Colt color shades and sheens than these three. Generally speaking we refinish AR-15 and M-16 rifles and carbines in two colors which are mid-years (1970s thru 1980s) Colt Grayish-Black or later Colt Flat Black. We do offer a Gray flat that happens to match some of the early Colt AR-15/M-16 rifles. If you want your upper and lower to match perfectly then they need to be refinished at the same time. We change our formulation of these Colt colors over time, therefore, as the shades we offer change you may not get a perfect match a year later to a part we refinished. As far as Fulton Armory goes, the CDNN route is cheaper. And if your looking for a Slick side, I have one in the EE. It has the black finish that is more likly to match a new lower. |
Re the Fulton pieces, they are NOT M16A1 profile. Fulton is using DPMS upper receivers and they come two ways. You can get an early M16 smoothside top or a C7 late type, which has the forward assist, but also the later ejection deflector. If you want a smoothside M16 clone, the ones they're selling may not be a bad idea, since the color will be a lot closer to the current black finish that's standard on just about all current lowers. If you're wanting to build an M16A1 clone, though, it's Mil Surp (or a Colt SP1/2 type upper with the front hole sleeved to 1/2 inch) all the way. 
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I ordered some handguards from them about 6 weeks ago. Took them 2 weeks (and an email) before they shipped. However, the handguards were in very good shape. Don't know about the butstock though. I would like to see if others here have had their order take weeks to ship from Sherluck... Tzvia |
yes, it is complete. dont expect it to be in very good condition either. mine was about 65% condition. sling svivel and trap door were rusty took 2 weeks for me 
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Well considering about a month back the government was selling off their triangular handgaurds by the pallet it looks like they are breaking down their old stores. On another note. I heard from the capt. before he left that the C forge code on the upper reciever of these rifles meant that they were complete rifles. So I wouldnt doubt that the government is breaking down it's stores of M16A1s and selling off the uppers to the highest bidder. Really a shame that they are probably destroying the old lowers and the bolt assemblies. 
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Clearly the army is just a bunch of pack rats. Probably have had those uppers on ice for years. Shows you how much confidence they had in the A2s! They probably had to wait until all the cold war generals either retired or died until they could sell them off. |
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My CDNN shot very well with the new bolt and bolt carroier I had as a spare. It shoots 55's nice and tight. Does anyone know...are they 1-7 or 1-12? Mine has a C MP Chrome Bore but no indication what the twist is....fit and function were 100% and I consider the price for a NOS Colt Triangular Handguarded, true Mil-Spec Barrel well worth the money. |
They are 1-12 twist. Elvis |
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Has anyone headspaced these CDNN uppers???? Since they were complete assemblies I "assume" they were headspaced when assembled, but, not with the bolt "we" are using I bought 2 of them. I am all done putting them together, even purchased Essential Arms Gray receivers (better match than black, but not a match). I am seeking input from fellow CDNN purchasers on the headspace issue. |
I haven't seen it myself, but I've been told that there are new, WWII production Jeeps sitting in a government warehouse in Memphis, TN. I've also heard (from several sources) that the Air Force had new, replacement engines for WWII fighters, up until at least the 1970's. Ya gotta wonder what else the military has stashed (and probably forgotten) in long-term storage. |
I'd imagine the rifles these uppers came off of have been re-arsenaled to A2 or A4 configuration. Changing out the upper is way cheaper than a whole new rifle, and I'd imagine they need all the rifles they can get with things the way they are in the sandbox. |
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Mine is working fine, since it was an m-16, that is what it is being used as. The front sight was pinned on crooked, had to deal with that, but I put it togther with dpms parts on a converted rra receiver and used the counterpoise system. Took a while to break in the barrell, but it is very accurate and I am between 3000-4000 rnd count with not one jam or misfire of any kind!@!!! This make me smile a lot. Terry (checked headspace with cylmer no-go and it is fine) |
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I purchased 2 of them, and as soon as my headspace guage arrives I am going to take 'em out. I purchased a Essential Arms Gray lower, and as mentioned elswewhere, it is lighter than the CDNN upper. But, I have tried them with my other Black lowers and the Gray looks better to me mismatched than does the black. Back on topic however, I bought 2 because I was afraid there were not that many... Since I like what I see, I may pick up 2 more.... |
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I was told the CDNN A1 uppers are bring backs from Central America. New Colt M16A1s sent there in the early to mid 80's as military aid. Not U.S. Army selloffs. CDNN had buttstocks, PGs, and bolt carrier groups last year when they first came out with the uppers. Must have sold off the furniture, and BCGs tho. My first A1 upper from them looked like it just came out of the factory, along with the Colt BCG, PG, and buttstock. The most recent upper was caked in dried grease, and had a bent ejection port door. Bent it back, but it has a wrinkle in it now. Still a good buy. |
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Why are any of y'all worried about headspace? These are new upper assys; either upgraded to A2 configuration at the Colt factory, or at an Ordnance depot. That means THEY HAVE NO WEAR ON THE LUGS If you put a new bolt assy in, or even a used one w/o a lot of use, your headspace will be fine. I swear, the headspace brainwashing that goes on around here. 
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It is my understanding that you are testing the bolt when headspacing an AR If the bbl was headspaced with an in "spec" bolt and it passed, that is one half of the battle. Now you could potentially be faced with a out of spec bolt... right? I was not going to do it because base on AR design I think the odds are very, very low that it is out of spec, but for 15 bucks, why not..... |
No, actually they are not... M16A1 lowers get A2-ified or M4-ified... Most folks who've been in the service should be able to verify this - I know I've drawn 'em before (M16A2 that says 'A1' on the lower)... |
Hell it was one of the last things Richardson mentioned before he left so dont blame me. |
That is kind of interesting. I thought I remebered them saying the lowers were destroyed but, hey, it could have just been a stupid marketing error. I have heard lately of guys spotting A1s floating around ROTCs. Do you know if they did that with just the full fence A1 lowers or did some of the partial and no fence lowers survive? That would be kind of cool to see. |
I don't know about the army, but the Air Force still has a shit-load of no fence lowers floating around, some still configured as original M16's. |
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