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Posted: 4/23/2016 9:43:18 AM EDT
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I purchased this rifle from a company that assembles different parts than sells The entire rifle. The barrel is a DPMS 20" 1-10 twist, upper, lower and BCG are all PSA and the scope is a Leapers 6-24. I just took it to the range for the first time, I started at 25 yards just to sight in the scope and had no problem getting some groups. When I pushed out to 100 yards everything went to shit. I'm using 147 grain freedom munitions ammo, 50 it's fine at 75 it's sketchy, but 100 it's all over the place. I happened to have someone 150 grain Tula which was more accurate at 100 but not as accurate as I expected with the set up and I would still get flyers.
I spoke to an older gentleman next to me who shoots competitively long-distance, he looked at my set up and my shooting posture and my groups and he said that I should go with a higher quality ammo. When I spoke to the gunsmith at the range, The first question he asked is what was the twist rate, when I told him, he recommended a higher grain ammo. Have any of you run into the situation before? What are your opinions about the recommendations I received? |
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Some barrels take a while to "break in" by smoothing any rough spots off the rifling. I'd give it a couple hundred rounds to settle in.
And yeah, some better ammo wouldn't hurt, either. What you're using now is fine for range fodder, but isn't going to win any accuracy awards. Try some Federal Gold Medal Match 168gr or 175gr and see how that works. |
| My suspects would be the ammo and the scope. I'm not personally familiar with that scope, but I don't think the brand is even close to a precision optic. When you use a variable scope in the range of 6-24 it should be some decently expensive glass. This is a true case of "you get what you pay for". Military ball style ammo is fine for plinking and even in the SHTF scenario where you want lots of lead coming out of the barrel. Most of it, however, isn't anything precision. Target Sports USA has Federal Match 168g BTHP priced for about $200 for 200 rounds with free shipping. Get you some of that. On the scope variable range, I'd suggest something in a lower range for most .308 AR's. I'm not sure what the ultimately expected precision is common for your particular barrel, but even something like one of those Armalite target/match 20" .308's don't need a 6-24 scope. |
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Agree with the posts above. I used to go through this all the time until I finally understood that you can't expect shit for groups with average ammo You're using reman, to boot. You need to buy some decent ammo before you try for a small group. That said, you can use crappy ammo just fine for sighting in a scope but you need to shoot at least 10 round groups. Adjust the scope to move the whole cluster and be happy when it's centered. Also, for a new gun just put one or two hundred shots down range first. Get everything worn in a settled in. That's the best use for fmj reman. -Stooxie |
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Quoted:
Agree with the posts above. I used to go through this all the time until I finally understood that you can't expect shit for groups with average ammo You're using reman, to boot. You need to buy some decent ammo before you try for a small group. That said, you can use crappy ammo just fine for sighting in a scope but you need to shoot at least 10 round groups. Adjust the scope to move the whole cluster and be happy when it's centered. Also, for a new gun just put one or two hundred shots down range first. Get everything worn in a settled in. That's the best use for fmj reman. -Stooxie Freedom makes new as well as reman ammo, fyi. In my experience new manufactured Freedom is less accurate some of the other cheap surplus ammo. As others said you need to go through break in and buy better ammo. |
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Tula ammo is the bottom of the barrel. Not only is it some of the least accurate ammo on the market, it wears barrels out twice as fast as common lead core bullets.
168 grain Sierra Match Kings usually shoot great from any rifle. Try them first before condemning your rifle's accuracy. Ditch the Leapers scope. It might work on a .22 rimfire for the kid, otherwise buy a quality (made in the USA, Japan or Germany) scope. |
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Try some Federal Gold Medal Match and work backwards.........decent ammo by anybodys standard.....I've been shooting 308/762 NATO for years...........in semi auto's and Bolt guns..........Sierra 150 grain boat tail PSP is an amazing bullet ..........
147 grain FMJ for me has never produced any kinds of groups that I would rate outstanding............ |
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First - safe and clear. Field Strip and separate the upper from the lower. This probably isn't the lower's doing so we'll focus on the upper.
Hold the optic in one hand and the upper in the other. Try wiggling, twisting, turning, bumping every way you can. Feel for ANY minute sign of something being loose. Get the correct size tools for your optic mount and back off then re-tighten all fasteners - noting any that you tighten further than the original position. If it moved or you tightened anything more than +1/8th turn STOP. Put a scope protector on the optic and try to move the barrel relative to the upper. If you have handguards on a delta-ring remove them. If you have a fixed FSB hold it and try twisting it and the barrel relative to the upper being careful not to bend the gas tube. It helps to put the upper in a vise but it isn't strictly required. If it moves, STOP. Remove the BCG if you didn't already. Check the locking lugs on the bolt and the barrel extension area for ANY signs of metal shavings. If you see any STOP. Check the chamber for any signs of scratches, burrs etc - if you see any STOP. Next clean the bore thoroughly. A proper copper solvent, CLP, bore guide, a proper jag, chamber brush, patches and cleaning rod are all needed for this IMO. Also check the barrel crown - use a loupe if you can find one. If the crown shows any burrs STOP. Now that the bore is clear - set it in a rest or somewhere else it won't move of its own accord. Use the bore and sight down at something contrasty downrange. I use a big orange target. Adjust the scope as requird to be on the target. Pick up the upper and slap the optic around just in your hands. If it can't take this it can't take recoil. Put the upper back and find the target again. If the scope reticle moved STOP. If you get stopped let us know where, else grab 168 GMM and let us know how it goes. |
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You're expecting precision? What are you expecting? MOA? Better than MOA? If so, lets look at the precision rifle aspects... they consist of four things...
Shooter Scope Ammo Rifle Scope- complete piece of shit... sorry, but that's that... Leapers is junk, end of story. Ammo- not conducive to precision... period. Rifle- Who knows... built with mixed parts... suspect to say the least. Shooter- if you can shoot other QIUALITY set ups, that rules YOU out. I don't mean to sound like an asshole, but I stand by what I posted. |
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You're expecting precision? What are you expecting? MOA? Better than MOA? If so, lets look at the precision rifle aspects... they consist of four things... Shooter Scope Ammo Rifle Scope- complete piece of shit... sorry, but that's that... Leapers is junk, end of story. Ammo- not conducive to precision... period. Rifle- Who knows... built with mixed parts... suspect to say the least. Shooter- if you can shoot other QIUALITY set ups, that rules YOU out. I don't mean to sound like an asshole, but I stand by what I posted. Put a Leaper's on an AR10 and prepare to watch the gears crap the bed like a spastic geriatrics patient with gastroenteritis. The materials used for the Leapers scope were of higher value before the Chinese factory assembled them into something resembling a rifle optic. |
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There is absolutely zero benefit to come out of mounting a Leapers, Barska, Counter Sniper, BSA, etc. scope on an AR10/LR-308, or SCAR.
They will fail very soon. Reticles will cant all of a sudden, you'll get backlash from the start, gears won't track, optical elements will break loose from their positions in the tube. They are total abortions that target budget-minded customers who don't know the reputation of the companies and their total lack of QC. Avoid them like the plague. |
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There is absolutely zero benefit to come out of mounting a Leapers, Barska, Counter Sniper, BSA, etc. scope on an AR10/LR-308, or SCAR. They will fail very soon. Reticles will cant all of a sudden, you'll get backlash from the start, gears won't track, optical elements will break loose from their positions in the tube. They are total abortions that target budget-minded customers who don't know the reputation of the companies and their total lack of QC. Avoid them like the plague. Agree... while my real world experience is less than LRRPF52's, I pay attention to what he posts when it comes to PR. I teach Precision Rifle and CONSTANTLY see cheap gear fail and students become extremely frustrated when they hit the field with gear like the OP's set up (scope/ammo)... it was doomed from the start... to think otherwise is a waste of time and energy... I'd be interested in what the OP means by "sketchy" and "all over the place"... |
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Quoted: There is absolutely zero benefit to come out of mounting a Leapers, Barska, Counter Sniper, BSA, etc. scope on an AR10/LR-308, or SCAR. They will fail very soon. Reticles will cant all of a sudden, you'll get backlash from the start, gears won't track, optical elements will break loose from their positions in the tube. They are total abortions that target budget-minded customers who don't know the reputation of the companies and their total lack of QC. Avoid them like the plague. |
| Before you slap a lot of money in an optic as 'the fix' for the issue - make sure it isn't something else, first. Alternatively you could put a quality optic on NOW and eliminate that possibility and have good glass moving forward. I recommend Vortex's first focal plane PST as a place to start. If finances don't allow that range, take a look at Vortex' Crossfire range. Burris, Nikon and Leupold have offerings you should consider as well. Sadly I don't recall a first focal plane scope between the two which for me was a non-starter. YMMV. |
I am not looking to punch the same holes at 500 yards. My minimal expectation was to meet or exceed the accuracy of my Zastava AK chambered in .308. With my bad eye sight while using a UTG 3-12 scope and the same cheap ammo, I am able to get 4-6 inch groups, which I am very happy with considering my lack of experience and the quality of my rifles and ammo. I am hunting pig, not rabbits.  . I was hoping that this rifle would be more precise and improve upon that grouping and maybe reach out to 150-200 yards with simlar accuracy.
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| If budget is tight, go get a SWFA SS 10x for $299. Then go buy a few boxes of hornady 168 a-max ammo, not the superformance, and see how well it shoots with descent ammo. All the above statements are right on. Chuck that POS scope. Heck, go iron sights if you have to. That 1:10 twist really likes 168 grain bullets. Have shot plenty of surplus ammo out of my oracle before selling it. 168 gr shot the best. |
I found the problem, it was me, not the rifle. Had a guy next to me at the range take a few shots and it was dead on. I changed my bipod and grip and started shooting some nice groups. ( for me that is). The reman is still crap at 100 yards, but I can shoot 1 inch or less groups at 50 yards, which I don't quite understand. The Tula and Hornady FMJ 155 were consistent, but my aim wasn't. Guess the barrel does needs some more breaking n as some of you mentioned and I need more practice. On the attached photo the six in the middle and on the left are the Harnady, the right is Tula.
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Well - one thing nice fish...
2nd thing - it may be my perception but it looks like that scope is way back almost into your eyeball? Are you sitting at a bench shooting this or standing? Lots of places you can go for information about fixing up your shooting posture, scope mounting etc. One of the reasons so many of us run cantilever mounts is the scope is otherwise too far back on the rifle. Glad the fix wasn't 'spend money now'. That's always nice. |
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I agree, from experience Quoted:
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There is absolutely zero benefit to come out of mounting a Leapers, Barska, Counter Sniper, BSA, etc. scope on an AR10/LR-308, or SCAR. They will fail very soon. Reticles will cant all of a sudden, you'll get backlash from the start, gears won't track, optical elements will break loose from their positions in the tube. They are total abortions that target budget-minded customers who don't know the reputation of the companies and their total lack of QC. Avoid them like the plague. I have a 5th Gen Leapers on my 308 bolt gun and it has been problem free. Older Leapers did have issues. |
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