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Posted: 12/19/2015 9:59:24 AM EDT
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Guys I have a small issue with my sig.
Everything is stock. I shoot it suppressed (thread on gemtech hvt). I have shot several different types of ammo, in several different mags, on various gas settings and I continue to have the same problem. This is my first piston rifle so I figured I would ask the experts. Whenever I get the rifle good and clean, and oiled up, the rifle shoots great. After approximately 10 rounds, I start to have failure to load issues. It would appear that the bolt doesn't have enough force to bring the bullets out of the magazine and into the chamber. I am up having to take the magazine out of the weapon and manually cycle the bolt to get the bullet to see properly. Generally, when I take the mag out, and pull the charging handle all the way back, and let it slam home, it has enough ass to fully seat the bullet into the chamber. The rifle does get extra dirty because of the suppressor so I tried different lubes. I also tried to run it on the dry/wet side with no change in performance. Do I need a heavier buffer, heavier spring? Any ideas? |
| Trust me from experience, that issue will not improve via anything you do to the rifle much less Sig's people. I'm no technical expert but I put a ton of rounds down range as an LE Sniper and there are some major design flaws with that weapon. If you look closely what you'll more than likely find is that your bolt is ramming live rounds directly into the rear area of the chamber, not into it as it should. This is likely causing your failure to feed as well as some obviously deformed projectiles. Our team had some of these guns and couldn't wait to get rid of them. Best fix I can recommend is that you clean it thoroughly, place it in its original box then promptly sell it. Take the money you get from it and buy a LaRue. They're made in the US, insanely accurate and the customer service is without a doubt the best I've seen from any gunmaker. You won't regret it. |
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Trust me from experience, that issue will not improve via anything you do to the rifle much less Sig's people. I'm no technical expert but I put a ton of rounds down range as an LE Sniper and there are some major design flaws with that weapon. If you look closely what you'll more than likely find is that your bolt is ramming live rounds directly into the rear area of the chamber, not into it as it should. This is likely causing your failure to feed as well as some obviously deformed projectiles. Our team had some of these guns and couldn't wait to get rid of them. Best fix I can recommend is that you clean it thoroughly, place it in its original box then promptly sell it. Take the money you get from it and buy a LaRue. They're made in the US, insanely accurate and the customer service is without a doubt the best I've seen from any gunmaker. You won't regret it. The bullets are almost making it all the way in. A sharp rap on the FA will sometimes fix the problem but not always. I have numerous Larue rifles and will agree with you on how awesome they are, but I want to fix this sig, as I like it. |
| Good luck finding a remedy. My rifle sat in Sig's custom shop almost two months as a result of this issue and their brain trust came up with the end all be all fix of installing an Accu-Wedge. My specific gun topped with a high end Leopold scope shot from sandbags with match grade ammo rarely if ever produced better than 2" groups. |
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I have a 716. Great rifle that has never malfunctioned since inception with approximately 350 rounds to date with both factory and hand loads. I shoot loud with no suppressor. Go loud and see what happens. Loud this thing runs like a machine. Zero problems at all. It is suppressor related |
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Good luck finding a remedy. My rifle sat in Sig's custom shop almost two months as a result of this issue and their brain trust came up with the end all be all fix of installing an Accu-Wedge. My specific gun topped with a high end Leopold scope shot from sandbags with match grade ammo rarely if ever produced better than 2" groups. IM sent |
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Loud this thing runs like a machine. Zero problems at all. It is suppressor related Quoted:
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I have a 716. Great rifle that has never malfunctioned since inception with approximately 350 rounds to date with both factory and hand loads. I shoot loud with no suppressor. Go loud and see what happens. Loud this thing runs like a machine. Zero problems at all. It is suppressor related You said in your OP that you've used different gas settings and gotten the same results, but without the suppressor, it runs fine. Have your checked your gas settings to ensure they are different. How does the gun run on different settings without a suppressor? |
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You said in your OP that you've used different gas settings and gotten the same results, but without the suppressor, it runs fine. Have your checked your gas settings to ensure they are different. How does the gun run on different settings without a suppressor? Quoted:
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I have a 716. Great rifle that has never malfunctioned since inception with approximately 350 rounds to date with both factory and hand loads. I shoot loud with no suppressor. Go loud and see what happens. Loud this thing runs like a machine. Zero problems at all. It is suppressor related You said in your OP that you've used different gas settings and gotten the same results, but without the suppressor, it runs fine. Have your checked your gas settings to ensure they are different. How does the gun run on different settings without a suppressor? I moved the selector on the gas block to different settings. It runs perfectly in every setting without the suppressor on there. Once the suppressor is added, it runs fine but will have some issues getting the bullets to fully seat in the chamber. This happens once things get nasty, as they usually do when one uses a suppressor |
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I like the 716.
I like the gas piston. In theory, I would like a piston tuned to subsonic suppressed use... Are you shooting supersonic? The patrol has a long dwell time and a 16" barrel. Now, you are adding a suppressor. Its going to be just brutal on your rifle. DB Edit: Its going to be hard on your suppressor as well. |
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The suppressor is increasing your cyclic rate.
That makes feeding difficult in many guns. I would start with blending and polishing the feed ramps, especially if you're shooting HPBT ammunition. Factory guns rarely have this area matched up well, and it requires either the best machining possible, or hand fitting. Another thing I would do straight away is get Lancer mags. What mags are you using? Lancers will probably solve your issue right away. |
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The suppressor is increasing your cyclic rate. That makes feeding difficult in many guns. I would start with blending and polishing the feed ramps, especially if you're shooting HPBT ammunition. Factory guns rarely have this area matched up well, and it requires either the best machining possible, or hand fitting. Another thing I would do straight away is get Lancer mags. What mags are you using? Lancers will probably solve your issue right away. Using Pmags exclusively but I've tried numerous ones. Would it matter if the bullets are way past the point of needing to worry about the feed ramps? The are an inch (at most) from being ready to fire when this happens |
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My 716 3gun gouged brass heavily for the first several hundred rounds - numerous fail to feeds. When it had issues, I tore it down, reinstalled the flatwire spring in my garbage can and installed a real buffer spring. No issues or jams since. I wanted to do this as it would seem to solve my problem but I wanted to check with the oracle first |
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Sorry if I missed something but do you have a Sig 716 Gen 1 or Gen 2? I have a 516 and am about to buy a 716, after shooting a friends, and he said to make sure I get one of the new ones. Just like the Gen 1 516s, the 716 Gen 1 had issue that have supposedly been fixed.
I would call Sig and let them know. They are pretty good about fixing issues. Another unlikely issue could be the setup. My buddies Noveske loves my SAKER suppressor yet seems to hate his AAC (Can't remember the model). He swapped to another buffer and the rifle works fine with his can. Each can causes different levels of back pressure, which can cause issue. For example, I have to run my 516 SBR on unsurpressed when using my SAKER 762 (it is very sluggish if I use the suppressed setting), yet the rifle shoots amazingly well when I use a SAKER 556 on the suppressed setting. To keep it short, I would call Sig. Explain your situation and they will help you out. Semper Fi |
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I run my Sig 716 with a Silencerco Specwar 7.62. I had a ton of issues with the rifle but I've learned a couple of things:
1. It does like to run wet. I think as time goes by, it's loosening up a lot. It was pretty tight to begin with. 2. If I'm running suppressed, I have to run the gas system in the suppressed setting. That's the smallest pip next to the X. If the X is pointed straight up, then you're on the suppressed setting. It's a little counterintuitive because the index mark for the gas system is not top dead center, it's to the right of top, so what setting you are on is actually the one to the right of the top, if that makes sense... My Sig turns into a club if I overgas at all with a suppressor on it. As long as I run it in the suppressed setting, it runs just fine. And like I said, if the X mark is pointing straight up, that's the correct suppressed setting. |
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Maybe I should reconsider the 716. The one I shot had a Dead Air can on it and seemed to work fine.
Even before I shot it, I heard there were issues from other shooters. Maybe I should see how well his is working for him (maybe mount my SAKER to it) before picking one up. |
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even though it runs perfectly without a suppressor ? Quoted:
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Sounds like you might have either a misaligned gas block or something wrong with the piston itself. If the gun is new call sig and have them look at it because this is not normal. even though it runs perfectly without a suppressor ? That's what I was thinking. I have an earlier 716 and have had zero problems with it - but I don't run it with a suppressor. I have a feeling your problem is a combination of the specific ammunition you're using AND that you're using a suppressor. Have you tried a different load with the can? |
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That's what I was thinking. I have an earlier 716 and have had zero problems with it - but I don't run it with a suppressor. I have a feeling your problem is a combination of the specific ammunition you're using AND that you're using a suppressor. Have you tried a different load with the can? Quoted:
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Sounds like you might have either a misaligned gas block or something wrong with the piston itself. If the gun is new call sig and have them look at it because this is not normal. even though it runs perfectly without a suppressor ? That's what I was thinking. I have an earlier 716 and have had zero problems with it - but I don't run it with a suppressor. I have a feeling your problem is a combination of the specific ammunition you're using AND that you're using a suppressor. Have you tried a different load with the can? Two different cartridges. Both brass. One was some Winchester "deer" ballistic ammo. (Had great results with it this year in terms of ballistics and lethality if anyone is wondering) |
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is it nosediving the cartridges or just not bottoming out all the way after ejection thereby reducing the feeding energy?? It is not nosediving the cartridges. They are making into the chamber, just not all the way. I'm going to put an actual buffer spring in there and try her out |
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It is not nosediving the cartridges. They are making into the chamber, just not all the way. I'm going to put an actual buffer spring in there and try her out Quoted:
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is it nosediving the cartridges or just not bottoming out all the way after ejection thereby reducing the feeding energy?? It is not nosediving the cartridges. They are making into the chamber, just not all the way. I'm going to put an actual buffer spring in there and try her out are you experiencing bullet setback?? what do you mean "an actual buffer spring" in there? What kind of action spring is in it? You changed it out? |
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even though it runs perfectly without a suppressor ? Quoted:
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Sounds like you might have either a misaligned gas block or something wrong with the piston itself. If the gun is new call sig and have them look at it because this is not normal. even though it runs perfectly without a suppressor ? Hmmmm, these tiny cell phone screens and I missed that part. Makes me now wonder if its the piston. You have unscrewed the piston, cleaned it well, and examined the rod/ spring? I have two 516s so I am assuming that the 716s piston is very similar. Normally the cycling problem can happen without the can then with the can. It's very odd. I'm also assuming you tried with the different settings on the piston. I would send it back to the geniuses that made it. Are you using the original buffer and buffer spring? |
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Hmmmm, these tiny cell phone screens and I missed that part. Makes me now wonder if its the piston. You have unscrewed the piston, cleaned it well, and examined the rod/ spring? I have two 516s so I am assuming that the 716s piston is very similar. Normally the cycling problem can happen without the can then with the can. It's very odd. I'm also assuming you tried with the different settings on the piston. I would send it back to the geniuses that made it. Are you using the original buffer and buffer spring? Quoted:
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Sounds like you might have either a misaligned gas block or something wrong with the piston itself. If the gun is new call sig and have them look at it because this is not normal. even though it runs perfectly without a suppressor ? Hmmmm, these tiny cell phone screens and I missed that part. Makes me now wonder if its the piston. You have unscrewed the piston, cleaned it well, and examined the rod/ spring? I have two 516s so I am assuming that the 716s piston is very similar. Normally the cycling problem can happen without the can then with the can. It's very odd. I'm also assuming you tried with the different settings on the piston. I would send it back to the geniuses that made it. Are you using the original buffer and buffer spring? The 716's piston is pretty much identical to the 516's, just scaled up. But again, the OP has stated that the gun is flawless WITHOUT the suppressor. WITH the suppressor, it seems to run for a while and then fail. That sounds to me like the suppressor is causing the problem, though I don't know if it's back pressure or something else. |
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