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Posted: 11/14/2015 3:17:53 PM EDT
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I own many A.R. 15's, but don't know anything about 308. Other than I've always wanted one. A friend of mine has a 2004, bushmaster 308, BAR10, low serial number 87. Wants $3000. That a good deal? Roughly 2,000 rounds been fired thru it. Said the only thing he doesn't like is the rounded forearm.
The only thing my research has come up with is that was the first year they made them, but I also heard they had some problems with the bolts breaking? But he said he has never had a problem. I have not seen the gun but he is a pretty good friend and would not try to get over me. So I believe what he says. It comes with a scope, sorry I don't know what type, and lots of other extras. He said with everything I have invested, around $3000. I know this sounds very ignorant of me not having this information, but he's a really good friend and he's down on his luck and hes run to his house now to pick it up to bring it back and show it to me. But I would like to have some kind of information before he gets back to know if $3000 is too much for it, as right off the top of my head, that sounds too expensive |
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No way in hell I'd buy that. He's ripping you off.
As mentioned above for that $ buy a Larue OBR. Me personally, I'd recommend a Sig 716, a decent set of rings and a good scope ie leupold Mk4. Mine is very accurate. You could get the Sig, rings, and good scope for $2600-2700. |
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I bought a Bushmaster ORC in 2013 for $1,200. I love it. Shoots great, reliable and comfortable. I alternate between a Burris 1x4 and a Nikon 3x9 depending on what I'm doing. $3,000 seems excessive by a large margin but I don't know anything about the rifle in question.
Do some more research before purchasing. |
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$3000 is waaayyyyyy to much for that rifle. At that price you could get a SCAR 17 or, as others have mentioned, a LaRue OBR.
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Isn't that the rock river licensed to Bush master? I don't think they did a good job with it... Just buy a new rra if you want to use FAL mags. If suggest you look for something sr25 compatible. That's correct. Bushmaster contracted to use the RRA design for the BAR-10. The BAR-10 had some problems and Bushmaster eventually stopped producing them. The current Bushmaster rifles are completely different from the BAR-10 design and use parts rebranded from their sister company DPMS. RRA then redesigned parts of the rifle to correct the issues and they sell it as the LAR 8, which you can get starting around $1100-$1200 with a warranty. |
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I own many A.R. 15's, but don't know anything about 308. Other than I've always wanted one. A friend of mine has a 2004, bushmaster 308, BAR10, low serial number 87. Wants $3000. That a good deal? No. < Edited. No linking to your own sales ads in a tech forum. IM inbound. HS > |
| Just so I know. Did the fact that it had a low serial number add anything to the value? He was saying something about only 1000 of them remained because they junk a lot of them because they were having problems? He said it was somewhat of a rare gun? Anybody shed any light on that ? |
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Unless it's gold plated, it's not worth $3000. It's not worth anywhere near that.
Serial Number wouldn't matter to me in this case. I wouldn't buy it, but that's just me. In the end, it's completely up to you whether you want it or not. Tell your friend if he thinks it's worth so much, he should put it up for sale on Gunbroker (or a similar site) and see what he can get for it. |
the guy is full of shit and trying to take advantage of you,at best it is worth 700-800 if it runs.anyone who would pay 3k for it is a fool.there are a lot better guns out there. of course if it is coming with a like new s&b pm2 scope it may be worth it.in that case he may not need to kiss you first.
pete |
| Oh no, I already told him I wasn't interested thanks to the input I found here. I would've let the thread die, but I was just curious about a low serial number, if that ever really meant anything in the real world? Because I told him no, I didn't want to ask him again, but initially I remember him saying something about there's not many of those versions left. I'm going by memory, but something about they had problems with the first run guns in 2004 and wind up junking them. Then came out with the second run which is what everyone has today. But that he had one of the first guns from the first run. Again, this is what he is telling me, doesn't mean there's any truth to it. But he is a friend and wouldn't purposely lie to me, so it's very possible this is what was told to him rom a salesman at a gun store. And we all know if it came from a salesman, there's no truth to it. But just wanted to make triple sure. |
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Just so I know. Did the fact that it had a low serial number add anything to the value? He was saying something about only 1000 of them remained because they junk a lot of them because they were having problems? He said it was somewhat of a rare gun? Anybody shed any light on that ? Quoted:
Just so I know. Did the fact that it had a low serial number add anything to the value? He was saying something about only 1000 of them remained because they junk a lot of them because they were having problems? He said it was somewhat of a rare gun? Anybody shed any light on that ? I sold a lot of those rifles back when they came out. There was a lot of enthusiasm about them because it was still during the Clinton Ban, and since they were engineered around the FAL mags, you could have plentiful 20rd mags for cheap, as aluminum FAL mags were around $7 at the time. Something happened with the metallurgy on the bolts on more than a few of the rifles, and RRA wasn't happy about it, so when the agreement between them dissolved, Bushmaster stopped making them. RRA took their design back, and re-introduced it as the LAR-8, as someone mentioned in the thread. Bushmaster has since ceased being Bushmaster, other than in name under the Freedom Group. They shut down the Windham, Maine company and moved operations to Ilion, NY (Remington). After the Freedom Group buy-out, they started making DPMS stle receiver rifles (Freedom Group bought DPMS as well.) I'm not sure who is even supporting the BAR-10 rifles now with CS, warranties, repairs, etc. Thread from 2006 discussing bolt failures Quoted:
Oh no, I already told him I wasn't interested thanks to the input I found here. I would've let the thread die, but I was just curious about a low serial number, if that ever really meant anything in the real world? Because I told him no, I didn't want to ask him again, but initially I remember him saying something about there's not many of those versions left. I'm going by memory, but something about they had problems with the first run guns in 2004 and wind up junking them. Then came out with the second run which is what everyone has today. But that he had one of the first guns from the first run. Again, this is what he is telling me, doesn't mean there's any truth to it. But he is a friend and wouldn't purposely lie to me, so it's very possible this is what was told to him rom a salesman at a gun store. And we all know if it came from a salesman, there's no truth to it. But just wanted to make triple sure. No, that's all accurate what your friend told you. They were made for a short time, then discontinued. |
| So if that is accurate and he has a Bar10 few other people have, does that not make the gun worth more? I'm not going to buy it, but just want to know so I can learn :) I have always been under the understanding, that the more rare a gun, the more valuable it is. |
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So if that is accurate and he has a Bar10 few other people have, does that not make the gun worth more? I'm not going to buy it, but just want to know so I can learn :) I have always been under the understanding, that the more rare a gun, the more valuable it is. Maybe several decades from now, someone would think it is worth something, but it was really a failed project that was poorly executed in production. It's never going to be "The rare and highly coveted Bushmaster BAR-10!" |
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Maybe several decades from now, someone would think it is worth something, but it was really a failed project that was poorly executed in production. It's never going to be "The rare and highly coveted Bushmaster BAR-10!" Quoted:
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So if that is accurate and he has a Bar10 few other people have, does that not make the gun worth more? I'm not going to buy it, but just want to know so I can learn :) I have always been under the understanding, that the more rare a gun, the more valuable it is. Maybe several decades from now, someone would think it is worth something, but it was really a failed project that was poorly executed in production. It's never going to be "The rare and highly coveted Bushmaster BAR-10!" Gotcha! Thank you sir (s) |
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The 2004 Bushmaster .308 is the FAL mag style, is it not? The design that they later sold to RRA (or transferred, whatever..)?
If it is the FAL mag rifle, IDGAF if it comes with 10 gold bricks, RUN the F away from this deal. Unless you collect Bushmasters and want a commemorative wall hanger, in which case I would offer $400 for it. That is a retarded design that didn't work worth a crap when Bushmaster made 'em and still sucks now that RRA is selling them. There is no "fix" or improvement, or mitigation, the fix is to sell the stupid thing. You have been warned. ETA: lol, guess I should have read the replies before posting. |
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So if that is accurate and he has a Bar10 few other people have, does that not make the gun worth more? I'm not going to buy it, but just want to know so I can learn :) I have always been under the understanding, that the more rare a gun, the more valuable it is. There are several thousand BAR-10s and BM-308s (same rifle, Bushmaster was threatened with a lawsuit and changed the name) still out there. When they gave up rights to the design (which we had licensed to them) we picked it back up, spent quite a bit of time revising it, and brought it out as the LAR-8, of which tens of thousands have sold over the past seven years or so (I stopped counting at approx. 20,000 covering just three years) and it is still in production. Steve/RRA . |
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The 2004 Bushmaster .308 is the FAL mag style, is it not? The design that they later sold to RRA (or transferred, whatever..)? If it is the FAL mag rifle, IDGAF if it comes with 10 gold bricks, RUN the F away from this deal. Unless you collect Bushmasters and want a commemorative wall hanger, in which case I would offer $400 for it. That is a retarded design that didn't work worth a crap when Bushmaster made 'em and still sucks now that RRA is selling them. There is no "fix" or improvement, or mitigation, the fix is to sell the stupid thing. You have been warned. ETA: lol, guess I should have read the replies before posting. Barrysuperwharever, Obviously, you don't know what you are talking about. First, I have it from Bushmaster that there were 1519 of the BAR-10's made. Of course, that was long ago so my number may be off by a few, but not more. I have 3 of them. Not only are they tack drivers, but the run every single time. Secondly, I have more than a half dozen of the Rock River Arms LAR-8's. They all shoot like a house of fire and function 100%. I have them in .308, .338FED, 7mm-08. Lastly, no, I wouldn't pay $3K for. BAR-10. I'd buy a new RRA for much less. It is a fine rifle, accurate, reliable, and is still supported by great people like Steve. Sure you are welcome to your opinion, but don't post it here like it's fact... you expose yourself. 8654 |
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I own many A.R. 15's, but don't know anything about 308. Other than I've always wanted one. A friend of mine has a 2004, bushmaster 308, BAR10, low serial number 87. Wants $3000. That a good deal? Roughly 2,000 rounds been fired thru it. Said the only thing he doesn't like is the rounded forearm. The only thing my research has come up with is that was the first year they made them, but I also heard they had some problems with the bolts breaking? But he said he has never had a problem. I have not seen the gun but he is a pretty good friend and would not try to get over me. So I believe what he says. It comes with a scope, sorry I don't know what type, and lots of other extras. He said with everything I have invested, around $3000. I know this sounds very ignorant of me not having this information, but he's a really good friend and he's down on his luck and hes run to his house now to pick it up to bring it back and show it to me. But I would like to have some kind of information before he gets back to know if $3000 is too much for it, as right off the top of my head, that sounds too expensive If probably stop being friends with that guy. Sounds like wa trying to rip you off. |
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"Sounds like was trying to rip you off"
I don't see why you think that? It's already been established that everything he told me was true. Every last word of it. So in fact, he was not lying to me. So the only thing left up for discussion as to why you would think he's trying to get over on me, was the price. He simply said " based upon what he has in it" it would take $3000. I never pursued further because I told him no. But we still don't know what " he has in it". He could have a $2000 scope on it for all I know. Could be he did many improvements and aftermarket stuff. But probably, my guess, is a combination of that plus the following. Most probably, he was just honestly confused as myself, and was under the assumption that I myself would have thought was a safe assumption. By the way he talked, he genuinely believed it had extra value to it because of the following. He has a brand-name rifle, with a very low serial number, from a batch of weapons that had a very low number ever produced, from a new line of weapon just being introduced, and of which was later discontinued from being made from use. I have to say, even if it isn't true, it sure has all of the nice elements involved that would make it very true! But no, I don't see that he was trying to rip me off. After all I'm not in high school, I'm 55 and I've been buying and selling weapons my whole life and he knows this, so he wouldn't try to get over on me because I'm not exactly a novice at this. But when I'm in over my head about a weapon I don't know, I'm not afraid to ask either. Obviously this weapon is not the run-of-the-mill typical gun for sale that has a known past, making its value easy to determine. There was somewhat of a complicated history behind it which would lead anyone to believe that it could possibly be worth a lot of money. Hence why I posted this thread to find out. |
| There's two things that don't go together. Highly used Bushmaster and 3K. So while he thought he had a super rare gun. It really isn't anything special at all and he is asking LaRue prices for something that isn't a LaRue. In other words he's trying to rip you off. Sorry you don't see it that way. |
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By the way, I haven't had the heart to inform him of everything I learned here. It would probably break his heart. The man genuinely believes he has a rare item. Best to let him go on believing it  This way he can rip off some other unsuspecting person that doesn't have enough brains to ask around. |
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There's two things that don't go together. Highly used Bushmaster and 3K. So while he thought he had a super rare gun. It really isn't anything special at all and he is asking LaRue prices for something that isn't a LaRue. In other words he's trying to rip you off. Sorry you don't see it that way. AND "This way he can rip off some other unsuspecting person who doesn't have enough brains to ask around" Sometimes it's really OK Spizike, to just say "yeah, now that you've explained it I get it." There's nothing wrong with that. But to keep persisting in trying to explain to ME, about a friendship that I've had with somebody for 15 years, based on limited knowledge, even after that limited knowledge has been broadened for you, for no other valid reason, other than so you can save face, is really not cool. This thread is about the value of a weapon, not the virtues of a friendship... Some people like yourself, try so hard to go out-of-the-way to start arguments, why is that? So fast to call someone's friend a crook, a thief, a rip off artist, a con man, and these are actuations you throw out with absolutely no information at all. |
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This way he can rip off some other unsuspecting person that doesn't have enough brains to ask around. Quoted:
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By the way, I haven't had the heart to inform him of everything I learned here. It would probably break his heart. The man genuinely believes he has a rare item. Best to let him go on believing it This way he can rip off some other unsuspecting person that doesn't have enough brains to ask around. Not cool. If you go back and read the OP, the price includes optics. We don't know if that means Leupold, NF, IOR, or something else. Even when the BAR-10 was brand new, I think we sold them for around $1500-$1600. Dealer cost was $1378 IIRC. From the OP: It comes with a scope, sorry I don't know what type, and lots of other extras. He said with everything I have invested, around $3000. I still wouldn't touch it, but there is no need to indicate his buddy is trying to cheat him, since there is more being offered here than just the rifle. |
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Not cool. If you go back and read the OP, the price includes optics. We don't know if that means Leupold, NF, IOR, or something else. Even when the BAR-10 was brand new, I think we sold them for around $1500-$1600. Dealer cost was $1378 IIRC. From the OP: I still wouldn't touch it, but there is no need to indicate his buddy is trying to cheat him, since there is more being offered here than just the rifle. Quoted:
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By the way, I haven't had the heart to inform him of everything I learned here. It would probably break his heart. The man genuinely believes he has a rare item. Best to let him go on believing it This way he can rip off some other unsuspecting person that doesn't have enough brains to ask around. Not cool. If you go back and read the OP, the price includes optics. We don't know if that means Leupold, NF, IOR, or something else. Even when the BAR-10 was brand new, I think we sold them for around $1500-$1600. Dealer cost was $1378 IIRC. From the OP: It comes with a scope, sorry I don't know what type, and lots of other extras. He said with everything I have invested, around $3000. I still wouldn't touch it, but there is no need to indicate his buddy is trying to cheat him, since there is more being offered here than just the rifle. I'm not saying that op doesn't have enough brains. He actually did. While I agree he could have a super high end scope usually someone won't spend more on a scope than a gun. |
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AND "This way he can rip off some other unsuspecting person who doesn't have enough brains to ask around" Sometimes it's really OK Spizike, to just say "yeah, now that you've explained it I get it." There's nothing wrong with that. But to keep persisting in trying to explain to ME, about a friendship that I've had with somebody for 15 years, based on limited knowledge, even after that limited knowledge has been broadened for you, for no other valid reason, other than so you can save face, is really not cool. This thread is about the value of a weapon, not the virtues of a friendship... Some people like yourself, try so hard to go out-of-the-way to start arguments, why is that? So fast to call someone's friend a crook, a thief, a rip off artist, a con man, and these are actuations you throw out with absolutely no information at all. Quoted:
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There's two things that don't go together. Highly used Bushmaster and 3K. So while he thought he had a super rare gun. It really isn't anything special at all and he is asking LaRue prices for something that isn't a LaRue. In other words he's trying to rip you off. Sorry you don't see it that way. AND "This way he can rip off some other unsuspecting person who doesn't have enough brains to ask around" Sometimes it's really OK Spizike, to just say "yeah, now that you've explained it I get it." There's nothing wrong with that. But to keep persisting in trying to explain to ME, about a friendship that I've had with somebody for 15 years, based on limited knowledge, even after that limited knowledge has been broadened for you, for no other valid reason, other than so you can save face, is really not cool. This thread is about the value of a weapon, not the virtues of a friendship... Some people like yourself, try so hard to go out-of-the-way to start arguments, why is that? So fast to call someone's friend a crook, a thief, a rip off artist, a con man, and these are actuations you throw out with absolutely no information at all. Realistically I rarely and I mean rarely ever try to start arguments on here. Sorry I felt so strongly about this. However you made me realize I do have a friend that always thinks his stuff is worth way more than it really is. I won't stop being his friend, just don't buy anything from him. |
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Here's what i think is going on, i think your friend was fooled into the rifle, or possibly bought it new.
If he has approx 3k invested into it, with whatever extras there are for this rifle, and whatever scope he has; if asking 3k I'm sure the scope is not a Millet or nikon, he's probably asking a price for what he truly had invested in it. Many casual gun owners are unaware of the value of used guns. It's not entirely their fault, but certainly mostly is. You need to know what you have, and that's your responsibility alone. You being general, not OP or his friend specifically. But, it still being the older BAR-10, it's not worth any price sadly. Regardless if his was a "good" one or not, the design in general was inferior. I think you should inform him off the weapons history. Since he has 2k rounds through it, something might be ready to break. Best let him know so he can be prepared. He's never gonna get his money back, and i think he should keep it until it breaks. Then make it a wall hanger. |
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Here's what i think is going on, i think your friend was fooled into the rifle, or possibly bought it new. If he has approx 3k invested into it, with whatever extras there are for this rifle, and whatever scope he has; if asking 3k I'm sure the scope is not a Millet or nikon, he's probably asking a price for what he truly had invested in it. Many casual gun owners are unaware of the value of used guns. It's not entirely their fault, but certainly mostly is. You need to know what you have, and that's your responsibility alone. You being general, not OP or his friend specifically. But, it still being the older BAR-10, it's not worth any price sadly. Regardless if his was a "good" one or not, the design in general was inferior. I think you should inform him off the weapons history. Since he has 2k rounds through it, something might be ready to break. Best let him know so he can be prepared. He's never gonna get his money back, and i think he should keep it until it breaks. Then make it a wall hanger. Not necessarily true. RRA's redesign allows for just about everything on or in a BAR-10 or BM-308.to be replaced with current LAR-8 components. Certain components will require more than others, but there's nothing inherently wrong with either rifle or which can't be fixed/repaired/replaced. We did that specifically because there are/were thousands of those models already on the market. We get several in every year for upgrades of one sort or another. Most are still chugging along on their original parts, however. The bolt issue was confined to a specific batch per BM, so was not endemic to all of them...although we did significantly change it once the design was brought home. Steve/RRA |
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Well there you go, have your friend send in his Bushy to RRA to be updated. Would certainly help the resale value, or at the least have better peace of mind.
I wasn't trying to say the entire design was inferior, but rather the way BM handled it. I thought the bolt issue was a large batch that potentially effected a large number of rifles. |
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He bought it brand-new. And he was definitely aware that they had issues with it and chunked them all, which I think is what in his mind made him think it was so valuable, that he had one of only a "few" left of the original batch, serial number 87, in existence.
If he was trying to rip me off, he would not have offered that information about how the first run were duds and they sold them all for scrap metal. That's not something you would offer in the process of selling a weapon that WAS one of the weapon they trashed :) make no mistake, he was PROUD of the story, and offered it as evidence and proof that it was worth so much to him. He didn't try to hide the fact that they had problems with it. But in his words, he never had a problem with it. He did say something about the bolt, either in regards to the fact that that's what they had issues with or he updated it, but in all honesty, I wasn't paying too much attention at that time, I was in the middle of working on my truck and half listening. I heard "needs money, gun for sale" words that normally always get my full attention!!! But his story was intriguing enough that I already knew I was going to post a thread here and find out for myself before I bought it.. Because he bought it new and followed the history of it, I am sure he convinced himself it had a lot more value then it really did. He is not the type to be a member of forums or go on a computer and research, he's just not the type individual. But because I am even more curious than ever before after reading all of this, I'm going to call him tonight and get the specifics. Whether he had It updated, what kind of scope it was, blah blah. I post here this evening. No problem Spikize, I myself can get out of hand and have so many times when writing things :) no harm no foul my friend |
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It's a sitemark scope. $200 to $300 for it so not much there. And it's also completely stock. And yes, he verified, that he assumed it was worth a lot of money because it was so rare. And that he's never had an issue with it and after 2000 rounds he's never had one malfunction. He concluded that this must not have been one of the bad ones that was involved. And as such, it would be worth a lot of money being it was rare with an even rarer low serial number.
At least that's his thought process behind it, wrong or right... So bottom line, here's what we have concluded. It would have been insane for me to purchase it for that much money (AR15 forum to the rescue) and other then the only benefit being there is no record of it in case the government comes a knocking, it would be a foolish purchase. I will add that he really does believe it's worth that much and is adamant about it, and is quite shocked to hear it's real value. Now, I don't think it's worth $400-$500 as some have speculated. I would think a good buy is $750-$1,000. But he really thinks it's worth a lot more, which to me, means he genuinely thought it was worth a lot more money than it is and so there was no purposeful ill intent going on. What was going on? Ignorance. Plenty of it. But the world abounds of that :) |
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Ya know, not really. I mean IF the right deal came along I would buy it. But not going out of my way to get one. Truth is I'm a little bored with the Ar15 platform. Own three of them. Here's my layout to date.
1) Colt LE6920 with all the goodies. Geissele 2 stage SSA-E trigger, flashlight with remote, tripod, Wilson oversized combat bolt release, Ordin oversized mag release, BCM charging handle, Ergo Grip, Bushnell AR15 3x12 scope compensator, limb saver butt pad. And an IR laser to go with my MOD-3 Gen 3 pinnacle night vision goggles. 2) Smith and Wesson M&P 15 with only an Armasight Zeus 640 3x24 75 Thermal Scope. But I just put on a Hiperfire latest and greatest and fastest trigger that's probably NOT the best trigger to be paired with a Thermal scope... 3) Good ole Bushmaster back when Bushmaster was Bushmaster. 2003 model with carry handle and remote flashlight. But it's old and was afraid the Hiperfire be too much for its very shot barrel. Why I paired it with the Smith. Same goes for the carry handle too top heavy for the thermal. So the Smith got both even though wasn't the best combination. So I have "maxed out" with my AR15 toys. Deep down I want a 308. But truth is just cuz I want one. In reality I just don't have anywhere to fit it into my plans if SHTF, which is why I own what I do. Consistent research and others opinions always sway towards A.R. 15, being able to carry a lighter weapon with lighter ammo, which means more ammo. And that the AR15 can do what the 308 can do as well. But there are always the die hard 308 fans that will adamantly disagree with my last statement. So in a very long wonded response, yes, but only if it was dropped into my lap :) |
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