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Posted: 1/30/2013 3:55:00 AM EDT
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I'm looking to build a new upper for my AR
I want to hunt with it, I have read all the posts about you could kill an elephant with a .22 if you had proper shot placement. Well I'm not going to be delusional enough to believe that I am always going to make the perfect shot. I live in Northern CA  so I have that issue hanging over my head as well.
I would like to hunt pig and deer, but I may also try for elk if the opportunity arises. I'm thinking Fort Hunter Ligget for my hunting area primarily as that is where my friends hunt. They are all using .308 bolt action rifles and I considered doing an AR10 build but parts seem to be impossible to get right now, or I could just buy a bolt action rifle, but I'm not sure I could get another rifle past my wife. So my question is what do you recommend, I am looking at the 6.5 grendal, or the 458 socom or any of the other large caliber uppers 50 beowulf, 450 bushmaster, but I'm not locked into any of them, and am open to any suggestion. Right now I'm no info overload and I don't have any experience with any of these builds so I'm asking for your insight. Thanks, Scott |
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just my thinking here
I don't know much about the other rounds too much, but everything you mentioned are a specialty/small niche rd I noticed that they are all on a small platform Grendel is great due to it's awesome bc, but it is not devistating in terms of hunting rds go Have you considered 308 lost of ammo out there and since your in CA, and limited to mag cap why not carry big rds that can get out there a ways and still put some hurt lots of joes here love 6.5 type rds in the ar10 platform I say keep it simple 308 |
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I think parts for everything are hard to get now. People are buying ammo for guns they don't have, then buying that gun to match....crazy I tell ya.
Have you looked at the 300blackout? it has the ballistics similar to a 30/30. I am in the process of building one for next hunting season. I am in no hurry so I am just getting on back order lists. |
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Of those AR platform rifles i would pick the 6.5 for deer and hog, nothing much bigger although people have said its been done. The beowulf, socom are cool, limited ranger and have you seen the price per round of those? nuts.
My opinion, wait and get either an AR10 variant or you can never go wrong with a nice bolt action. one thing to consider with the AR10's ( a DPMS), i had one and it was one heavy SOB lugging it up and down hills and through the woods. |
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Although I love the AR platform, In today's retail/political climate I would get a Ruger M77 in .260 Rem./6.5 Creedmoor/6.5-284 w/ a 20" or longer Bbl.
A short action in 7mm is also a option like the 7mm-08 caliber, or a 308 Win. if you like that caliber, All will handle just about any game animal in NA at sane ranges w/ great accuracy and low recoil...In bolt actions I will always go with a Mauser type action like the Ruger M77...JMHO. Good Luck. |
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Quoted:
Of those AR platform rifles i would pick the 6.5 for deer and hog, nothing much bigger although people have said its been done. The beowulf, socom are cool, limited ranger and have you seen the price per round of those? nuts. My opinion, wait and get either an AR10 variant or you can never go wrong with a nice bolt action. one thing to consider with the AR10's ( a DPMS), i had one and it was one heavy SOB lugging it up and down hills and through the woods. This is the way I look at it also. If you truly want to hunt elk, the only legitimate rounds are the Beowulf/Socom types at less than 200 yards, an AR10/DPMS platform in something like the 338 Federal, or a bolt action gun in a 30/06 or above. I have a 6.8 SPC and like it, but compare its ballistics against a .243 Winchester and you'll see what I mean. Nobody in their right mind should be recommending a .243 class gun as an "elk rifle". Not trying to start any arguments here, but in my world even a .308 is considered pretty light for elk. |
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I'm going to suggest something no one else has, something I have experimented with A LOT. You can buy factory ammo, or reload. It gives you about the most power you will get in a AR15 chassis, unlike the big bores it has range out to 600 yds with authority. Since it's not a "combat" cartridge it won't be grabbed up in times like these, and you buy the whole upper, simply pin it on, and go hunt. Ready?
30 Remington AR Rem sells complete rifles, DPMS sells uppers and mags, Rem has ammo and brass, uses common 30 cal bullets. Case looks like a FAT Grendel, 6.5 Grendel on left, 5.56 on right, 30 RemAR in middle 
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Use the right tool for the job.
.556/6.8 upper for pigs, varmints 6.8 upper for deer long action bolt rifle for everything bigger than deer. .308 is marginal for large game such as Elk, but if you use it, go with one of the loads from Buffalo Bore. If you are close enough and skilled enough to get the shot placement, a good .308 load should be fine, but those are some important "ifs". |
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I would stick with 5.56 or .223. You will kill deer with a lung shot, doesnt have to be perfect. You might have to hone up on your tracking skills though. To me, thats part of the hunt.
I usually go for head shots, I dont trophy hunt, so I want to save as much meat as possible. There are plenty of good hunting rounds in .223, so you could find a good bullet. Get a longer barrel, maybe 24", and you will reach out there no problem. There was a company making bolt action uppers for AR lowers. Also, you could get a crossbow upper as well. I think the bolt action upper people are out of business. I cant find them on google anymore. |
| Do not believe .223 is legal for deer in Ca. 6.5 or 6.8 would be were I would go if I still lived there. That is if you wanted to stay with the ar15. If you wanted to step up to the AR10 go with the 308. Very capable of taking anything in Ca and all others in the lower 48. If you want some fun but not the range I went with the 458 SOCOM. But you better act fast as they are trying to eliminate the "LOOPHOLES" in the ca law. |
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Hi Scott,
I too live in CA, the South San Francisco Bay Area to be more precise and I too faced the same predicament. Although the most common and popular caliber for AR15 is 223 it is not "Illegal" to hunt the game you mention with it, but it is not recommended by the CA Department of Fish and Game. As a hunter I wanted a rig that will allow me to humanly get a clean kill on something larger than a coyote (Since 223 is mainly recommended for varmint). All the calibers you mentioned are great game takers, but if you don't hand load your ammo you will be paying top price to keep your rifle going "Bang!!" The Grendel/264LBC is the most common out of the list you provided, but that doesn't make it that much easier to find. You would be confined to buying your reloading supplies (brass and bullets) online, I'm sure you will find local stores that sale powder and primers. What I did: I decided that if I was going to hunt I would not shoot anything farther than 300yds. Not because I couldn't hit it, but because that is the distance I consider adequate to stock, close-in, and then shoot an animal...that and I don't want to walk a mile away to find my animal. I also decided that even though I hand -load and have all necessary equipment, it would be nice to use a round that I could buy just about in any gun/ammo store anywhere. That brought my spectrum of choice down to the 5 calibers you always find in a gun store: 223, 30-06, 308, 243, and 7.62x39mm. Out of those, only the 223 and 7.62x39mm fit an AR15. The 7.62x39mm is legal to hunt and can take most of the animals you will find in CA with the exception of black or brown bears. I haven't looked back since and couldn't be happier with my choice. 7.62x39mm is cheap so I have a large stock I use for plinking as often as I want, and have a great selection of hunting bullets. If you are ever in the San Jose area, drop me a line. If at all possible, we'll go to a local range and I will let you try my bang stick in 7.62x39mm. I'm sure you will love it as much as I do. Regards, Erick |
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I consider the .308 Winchester to be the minimum round for elk. I know Mark Larue has killed an elk with a 6.5 Grendel, and others as well, but we all get emotionally involved with things we have a stake in. You will be hard pressed to find a hard core elk hunter, that lives in elk country, hunts them every season, and is absorbed into the lifestyle that would recommend much smaller than a .308 round. I have killed, or witnessed killed, enough elk in my lifetime to form a valid opinion. Elk are not whitetail, they are not antelope...they are animals that weigh near 1000 lbs on the heavy side. They can run for miles and miles wounded faster than you can follow with an ATV. I have watched impact shots from the likes of .300 Weatherby Mags, 7mm Rem Mags, .338 Winchesters hit the boiler room, and had to track then for over a mile. What does the the 6.5, the .243 Win, or any of those AR type rounds have over a belted magnum? Follow up shot? Maybe. Having said that, I am leaving my Belted Magnums and my .300 RUM in the safe this year and using my LR308 for Speed Goat, Muley, Whitetail and Elk hunting this year. |
| Have you looked into the .308 Arrow uppers. It is made a few miles from where I live, and it has some pretty impressive stats. It fires a short .308 Arrow cartridge between 2500 and 2900 fps. The best part...it feeds through a standard AR lower. Arrow Arms is the manufacturer and Hornady produces the ammo. |
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Sticking with the AR15 lower, you might try looking into something in the super short magnums. WSSMs can be packed into an AR15 length action, and there are at least a couple commercially available uppers if you aren't into building your own. It sounds like you're a fan of bigger bores, so you might want to research the 358WSSM.
If 308AR platform is a consideration, you might want to look into the 7mm-08 cartridge. It's an easy fit into any 308AR system. 7mm-08 has reliably taken plenty of large game to include elk, moose, and even black bear. It also doesn't lose much in a shorter "tactical" length barrel, allowing you to have a more traditional length/weight AR. If you go bolt gun, obviously, the sky's the limit. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Of those AR platform rifles i would pick the 6.5 for deer and hog, nothing much bigger although people have said its been done. The beowulf, socom are cool, limited ranger and have you seen the price per round of those? nuts. My opinion, wait and get either an AR10 variant or you can never go wrong with a nice bolt action. one thing to consider with the AR10's ( a DPMS), i had one and it was one heavy SOB lugging it up and down hills and through the woods. This is the way I look at it also. If you truly want to hunt elk, the only legitimate rounds are the Beowulf/Socom types at less than 200 yards, an AR10/DPMS platform in something like the 338 Federal, or a bolt action gun in a 30/06 or above. I have a 6.8 SPC and like it, but compare its ballistics against a .243 Winchester and you'll see what I mean. Nobody in their right mind should be recommending a .243 class gun as an "elk rifle". Not trying to start any arguments here, but in my world even a .308 is considered pretty light for elk. This is absolutely true. ^^^ And I seethat Forester hails from elk country, as well. |
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