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Posted: 11/27/2012 4:20:56 AM EDT
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Are the latest breed of $2500+ dollar semi .308 rifles really, really, that much better than an $1-1300 dollar DPMS OR CMMG...?
I mean if one was to upgrade parts, trigger, etc. you would still be saving hundreds. Is there anyone here who has run both side to side and can point to where yes-my $2500 ++ is better than, and here is why: xxxxxx. Please don't point to simply direct impingement vs. piston, I am not concerned with that please. I believe there are a few guys here who hammer their .308 in the field, completions, etc. Thank you, GS |
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The Basic DPMS LR-308 and CMMG 308's Rifles are perfectly serviceable for their Intended task(s).
You upgrade some of the parts like the trigger group, sights/optics,furniture, etc., they certainly hold their own against much fancier and expensive rifles of similar design etc. You definitely can put the savings you have towards better triggers, sights/optics, or match grade barrel etc. For example, I recently built a DPMS LR-308 Pattern Rifle for a close family member (all standard off the shelf DPMS parts mostly) and once he got it home, he went out and purchased a case of ammo (I did not know that we was going to fire the whole case plus a few more boxes of ammo). He called-up his brother and a few friends to his farmhouse property and decided to fire the whole case of ammo plus a few extra boxes he had on hand all in one day ! That's over 500 rounds in a single day ! The DPMS fired all the ammo w/o a hitch. He did mention that the Rifle was very tight (fitment of all the parts as well as the upper and lower receivers were especially tight [as I had warned him when he picked it up]). I had left the Rifle very "wet" as you should with the typical DPMS LR-308 pattern Rifles...so within 100 rounds or so he had the rifle barrel smoking and he would let cool slightly and then continue firing (more like a torture test)...Needless to say with 540 rounds through the Rifle, it got a proper break-in...Lol. I do not condone that type of service in one day though. it's hard to argue though that when a you build a Rifle of this type weather it is a Armalite AR-10 pattern or a DPMS LR-308 pattern Rifle, It nearly always functions better and/or is very accurate when you put the time, care and effort in building it yourself. It hard to beat something like a nice MA-TEN scratch build (when of course you buy a matched upper and lower receiver set) and nice quality barrel, trigger group and furniture for your Rifle and then put some love Into It. Anyway... Good Luck. |
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I have an LR-308 I shot it one year for 3 Gun Matches! GOOD GOD the frustration. !!! it would jamb, allot! with all types of ammo. I just recently put a http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2692 barrel on the gun! yes the gun now works, just fine and I have tested, it with factory and hand loads. The chamber on the DPMS barrel was super tight, casing it to fail to extract. and the case would be stuck in the gun! I will shoot the gun in He-Man class! for the Rocky Mountain 3 gun and the Texas Multi gun match! Guns that don't run SUCK! |
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The 7.62 AR platform is a inherently accurate rifle, no matter what the roll mark. DPMS makes a very good entry level rifle at a entry level price.
Personally I think spending a extra 300-500 dollars on a ArmaLite AR-10 is worth it. You get 7175 forgings, better fit and finish, and a life time warranty. |
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The price you pay will depend on what you want the rifle to do. I bought a LR 308 Oracle and couldn't be happier. It shoots sub MOA at 100 yards with factory ammo, has never had a malfunction thru 360 rounds fired, and the fit and finish is very good. But all I do with mine is shoot paper targets. When I went looking for my 308, I looked at and had enough $$ to buy up to a $4,000 rifle. But I couldn't see paying 2 to 3 times as much as the DPMS. I just didn't see that there was that much of an improvement. I also wanted something that would take Magpul magazines and there are a lot of accessories for the DPMS platform. I just wanted something to punch paper with and the DPMS does that extremely well. Over the last few months I have done a lot of cosmetic mods, handguards, stock, grip, etc. But the only functional change was to put in a 4lb Timney trigger assembly and a Enidine Hydraulic Buffer. The lower price of the LR 308 left me enough to do all the upgrades that I wanted and was able to buy a very good scope for it.
I also read all the user reviews that I could find and I'd say at least 85 percent or more of the reviews were very positive. The biggest problem seemed to be ammo feed problems that cleared up when people went to Magpul mags. On the positive side the LR series seems to be very accurate for most users. I trust user reviews over any other info on guns. If the users don't like something you'll hear about it very quickly. |
| I have a LR308 "Sportical".It eats all ammo that Ive put through it,no hiccups.I have a Bill Springfield trigger job and a Trijicon sight on it and it shoots good and accurate.Now if I had a 3 or 4 power Leupold I could see just what real accuracy it has.As far as battle field accuracy its performed well out to 600 Yards no problem. |
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I've had my DPMS LR 308B for about 5 years. +/- 1600 rds downrange. In that time, it has never failed, broken, jammed or caused any problem
when fed good ammo. (lacquered cheap import ammo was not good) It has also shot consistently sub moa with decent ammo, usually my handloads (IMR 4895 & Sierra 168 HPBT) Its chamber is tight. Resizing cases fired from it is much easier than those fired from other rifles (particularly those fired in M1a rifles) I have 5 magazines for it, the two original DPMS mags, two C products mags and one 10 rd mag. All feed flawlessly, all have been deburred and had the followers deburred. Not because of a problem, but because that's what I do with all of my firearms magazines. It was ordered from the factory with the 18" cryo bull barrel, JP trigger & adjustable gas block. The only changes made have been replacing the pistol grip with a Magpul MOE grip and polishing the chamber lightly. (mainly to clean out the residue from trying cheap lacquered ammo) In all, it was money well spent, well invested in an accurate, reliable rifle. I cannot imagine that spending twice the money would get me better reliability, or better accuracy. Roger |
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I agree with Dr69er.
There's nothing wrong with a DPMS. This one ( Oracle )here shoots great, is light enough for "Running and Gunning" Fun to shoot. Good Deer hunting gun. But it has had substantial modifications to it. 
Then again something can be said for turning a set of quality parts, into the perfect gun of your choosing. From this, 
To this. 
But then again it cost 3 times as much as my DPMS. |
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Quoted:
I have an LR-308 I shot it one year for 3 Gun Matches! GOOD GOD the frustration. !!! it would jamb, allot! with all types of ammo. I just recently put a http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2692 barrel on the gun! yes the gun now works, just fine and I have tested, it with factory and hand loads. The chamber on the DPMS barrel was super tight, casing it to fail to extract. and the case would be stuck in the gun! I will shoot the gun in He-Man class! for the Rocky Mountain 3 gun and the Texas Multi gun match! Guns that don't run SUCK! That Ranier looks like a great barrel, are you getting sub MOA out of it? Did you consider having a gunsmith open the chamber of your original LR barrel?I'd rather have a barrel that is a little tight but that can be opened than one that is too sloppy..... |
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I was on the fence about trading the gun in and getting a LaRue OBR. but I Fellow 3 Gunner, told me to try the new barrel. I did think about opening up the chamber. renting a tool and putting it on the lath ,,but went with the 20 inch barrel. So that I could get more velocity out of my loads. as well but more important is getting the gun to run as close to %100 as possible, as the even at %95 that jambs the gun up every magazine you put through it. The Old DPMS 16 in barrel. was accurate! I got a .75 inch group at 200 yards once,,,, but for 3 Gun matches, you can't have a gun that jambs up and you can't just rack the bolt and keep shooting. I have not been able to shoot real groups with it yet, the range I want to, had a shooting platform and with the other shooters up on this platform it was moving around. with the movement I was able to get 2-3 inch groups. with the new load, and the cement benches at the other range I shoot at. I'll know what accuracy the gun will give me. |
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Thank you all. I am curious to here from some of the other folks, who did not choose DPMS, and why? I went AR10A because I could change it around to fit me at a lower price point than everything else on the market; I wanted forged receivers so that took freedom group offerings off the table. |
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DPMS is a great rifle in the .308 platform and you get diminishing returns for the extra money (i.e paying 3x the price of a DPMS may get you a few extra features, but not a gun that is 3x better). DPMS rifles also have a lifetime warranty (check their industry section out - they take care of their customers) and most LR's shoot on par with many mid-tier heavy barreled bolt guns.
If you plan on using your rifle as a crowbar, hammer, ladder etc., then get a stronger forging. Otherwise, you are going to have to really try to break the DPMS receivers. If you want a looser chamber get a 7.62x51 Nato chamber or you can swap your barrel for a Fulton or other aftermarket to accomodate your use. DPMS LR's do have tight chambers, but the jamming issue in this thread should have been taken up with the warranty IMO. An undergassed rifle will have issues with rounds sticking in the chamber and improperly sized or out of spec brass will also easily stick in these chambers. I built up two custom uppers using top end barrels and components and I didn't see a marked improvement over the accuracy of the stock DPMS rifle. I no longer have the custom uppers, but I still have two DPMS LR rifles that are not going anywhere. If you want piston or special barrels & coatings, then LWRC and POF USA (and others) do make remarkable weapons. They will be easier to clean and require a little less maintenance, but the accuracy will be about the same as a DPMS. In summary, if you need a GI Proof rifle that will see shithole conditions of dust, mud, sand and sweat then you may want one of the higher priced rifles. If you are a casual shooter, the DPMS is an excellent product with a very reasonable price. |
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Its not about breakage or misuse; its about dimensions. The forged alloy receiver, because it is made of stronger material, can use less of that material.
If you plan on using your rifle as a crowbar, hammer, ladder etc., then get a stronger forging. Otherwise, you are going to have to really try to break the DPMS receivers. Using a material that is weaker requires more of it to get the same result. Thats why a DPMS receiver has walls twice as thick as an Armalite receiver. |
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Its not about breakage or misuse; its about dimensions. The forged alloy receiver, because it is made of stronger material, can use less of that material.
If you plan on using your rifle as a crowbar, hammer, ladder etc., then get a stronger forging. Otherwise, you are going to have to really try to break the DPMS receivers. Using a material that is weaker requires more of it to get the same result. Thats why a DPMS receiver has walls twice as thick as an Armalite receiver. Yea but the Armalite uses the least available bolt and magazine combo though I guess they finally figured out that converted M14 mags were NOT the future of the platform...... |
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Its not about breakage or misuse; its about dimensions. The forged alloy receiver, because it is made of stronger material, can use less of that material.
If you plan on using your rifle as a crowbar, hammer, ladder etc., then get a stronger forging. Otherwise, you are going to have to really try to break the DPMS receivers. Using a material that is weaker requires more of it to get the same result. Thats why a DPMS receiver has walls twice as thick as an Armalite receiver. Yea but the Armalite uses the least available bolt and magazine combo though I guess they finally figured out that converted M14 mags were NOT the future of the platform...... This is true, but I never considered the magazine difference an issue after the Gen2 AR10 mag was released. I had some PMAGs and SR25 mags already so I went with the AR10A. If I didn't have them, the mag difference wouldn't have been any issue for me. I'm sure it is for others. As for bolts, yes more bolts for SR25 on the market its true; and Armalite bolts are not as easy to get a hold of. That said, I've never seen any AR 308 bolt break and its not like Armalite bolts are impossible to find or more expensive. Also it is possible to run an SR25 pattern bolt in an Armalite upper, providing the barrel extension is also SR25. So, that's another way to go if you plan on swapping barrels, particularly since theres probably a 10:1 ratio of SR25 pattern barrels on the market compared to Armalite pattern. |
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Its not about breakage or misuse; its about dimensions. The forged alloy receiver, because it is made of stronger material, can use less of that material.
If you plan on using your rifle as a crowbar, hammer, ladder etc., then get a stronger forging. Otherwise, you are going to have to really try to break the DPMS receivers. Using a material that is weaker requires more of it to get the same result. Thats why a DPMS receiver has walls twice as thick as an Armalite receiver. Yea but the Armalite uses the least available bolt and magazine combo though I guess they finally figured out that converted M14 mags were NOT the future of the platform...... This is true, but I never considered the magazine difference an issue after the Gen2 AR10 mag was released. I had some PMAGs and SR25 mags already so I went with the AR10A. If I didn't have them, the mag difference wouldn't have been any issue for me. I'm sure it is for others. As for bolts, yes more bolts for SR25 on the market its true; and Armalite bolts are not as easy to get a hold of. That said, I've never seen any AR 308 bolt break and its not like Armalite bolts are impossible to find or more expensive. The only reason really the mag difference is important is cost, you can buy a PMAG for $16 in bulk at cost through Brownells...there are also several other suppliers and that's usually a consideration with me anyway. As far as the bolt goes, yea, not the big of a deal but the DPMS type are a little easier to find and again, more than one supplier is always a good thing....There are a couple of companies you can buy 7075 lowers and uppers in DPMS pattern from if you are willing to build a rifle.... ETA, your right about the barrel nut combo and I see a lot of guys going that route. |
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