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Posted: 6/22/2012 9:43:57 AM EDT
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When comparing an off-the-shelf $1800 .308 AR-15 variant to an off-the-shelf $3200 .308 AR-15 variant, what, in general, is driving the price difference?
And a somewhat subjective question; Is it worth it? |
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Barrel and trigger seem to vary between guns in that range. With the less costly guns you probably get a decent barrel that is capable of MOA or better and standard trigger or even a nice two stage. Jump up to the more costly guns and you are probably looking at Geiselle triggers or alike and a name brand match barrel such as Lothar Walther , Shilen or something from another more "prestigious" barrel manufacturer. Fore ends will also change as well as standard features. The more expensive guns might come standard with back up sights, an aftermarket stock and grip, aftermarket muzzle device and a nickel or chromed bolt carrier. On the less costly guns, you are probably looking at a standard A2 stock, standard A2 grip, birdcage flash hider and plain bolt carrier. And IMO, I would build it myself. You can source just about all the same parts that the more expensive guns use, for slightly more than the cheaper guns cost.
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There are some significant differences depending on the parts that are used. Price out a build piece by piece exactly the way you want it and you'll see a high price tag. Now price it using more basic parts like a A2 stock for instance, DPMS pattern barrel, DPMS pattern BCG, etc... and you'll see the price go down. I would LOVE to compare accuracy with my home built 308 vs a LaRue. I'm not doubting LaRue's accuracy, but I've always been curious considering I didn't skimp on mine yet it didn't cost over $3000.
Monolithic upper receivers cost more than forged uppers with most any hand guard. The LaRue OBR has not only a monolithic rail on top, but also 20 moa of built in cant. This conserves optic internal adjustment for long range, but also allows for proper alignment with rail mounted NV and thermals. MEGA should make their monolithic uppers with built in cant. The OBR also has a unique adjustable gas block. High quality barrels and triggers are expensive. Special coated/treated BCGs are not cheap. Good modular hand guards are usually not cheap. Any anti-rotation hand guard costs big bucks in comparison to any Yankee Hill hand guard. Usually there is a significant difference in cost between piston or DI. Brand names alone also come with a price tag. |
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whats driving the price, a few things,
as long as you have a match barrel and trigger, the rifles are going to be pretty much equal.as long as they are configured simalarly upper and lower receiver sets range from 400-600 match barrels run 400-600 match trigges run 200-300 stocks range from 100-200 bcg's are around 250-300 the rest of the parts will run you maybe 200-300 dollars so for a decent parts gun, it will run anywhere from 1500 to 2500 bucks so inside of that price range certain companies put their own spin on the 308 and thats what you are paying for laure gives you built in MOA into a rail LMT gives you the MRP and quick change barrels POF and LWRC gives you a piston knights has some innovative features as well but the lions share of their premium, results from getting the government to massivly overpay for there system, are these rifles worth it, it all depends i really like the MWS and its ability to change barrels, so thats worth it to me, on the other hand, i dont think that the larue and its built in MOA is worth it, if i am dropping 2000-3000 dollars on a rifle, i am going to want to use it how ever i want, that means, getting a spare upper or barrel to suite my needs. |
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AR10's are made by Armalite. I have never seen a $3,000 AR10. My Christensen Arms .308 is called a CA-10 Recon. They state that it is built on the AR-10 platform. It cost $3800 before tax, but I believe it's worth EVERY penny. They also have other calibers using the same platform. They all have match grade Shilen barrels, modified and wrapped in their proprietary carbon fiber. It is supposedly "state of the art and the best barrel currently available"!! This did not come from the company, I heard it during an episode of "American Guns". They were building this guy a rifle and this is the barrel they used. That quote came from the guy who built the rifle. Also, the Christensen rifles all have piston systems, Timney triggers and titanium flash hiders. Additionally, every metal on metal part, as well as the barrel, is lined with nickel boron, which is stronger than chrome. I've been told that everything undergoes MPI testing, but I plan to call the company to verify this. Weight is 6.5 lbs unloaded. Lastly, they have 4 different, crazy cool camo patterns, (if you go to the web site, go to the CA-10 Recon area and the camo patterns are under the "SCM Stock" tag. Mine is "Kings Snow Shadow" and my rifle has the camo on the entire rifle including the stock...I have the CTR stock). Camo is extra, but everything else, including the piston system, is standard and the company expects 1/4 MOA at 100 meters!!!!! I'd post a pic of mine but don't know how. If anyone could walk me through it, I'd be really grateful!!!! 
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AR10's are made by Armalite. I have never seen a $3,000 AR10. Here you go, a $3,000 AR10. The latest evolution in the Era of AR Innovation, the ArmaLite AR-10 SuperS.A.S.S. is the ultimate suppressor capable, long range rifle system available. Engineering innovations include the adjustable gas system to optimize rifle function with suppressor as well as the AR design enhancements that our engineers have made standard on every ArmaLite AR-10. *The holder of an active FFL must contact ArmaLite to order this product. *Sights,Scopes, bi-pod and mounts not included with Rifles. The SuperS.A.S.S. TM is configured as follows: Adjustable Gas System to Optimize Rifle Function with Suppressor Armalite Floating Rail System with Rail Covers Magpul Adjustable Buttstock .875 at the Journal (Under the gas block) Length of Pull: 14 1/2" Semi-Auto Caliber: .308/7.62 X 51mm NATO Barrel: 20" Triple lapped, Ceramic Coated AISI 416R Stainless Steel Match, Threaded 5/8x24 Rifling Twist: RH 1:10" 150-175 Grain, Recommended 168 Muzzle Device: Flash Suppressor Front Sight Base: Quad Picatinny Rail Handguard Upper Receiver: Forged Flattop with Picatinny Rail & Laser Engraved Rail Numbering 7175-T74 Aluminum Lower Receiver: 7175-t73 Aluminum (forged) Trigger: National Match two stage - 1st stage 2.5 lbs - 2nd stage 4.5-5 lbs Overall Length: 41 - 42" Weight: 11.84 lbs Accuracy: 1 MOA Included with Rifle: One 10 Round Magazine, One 20 Round Magazine, USMC Quick Adjustable Sling, Sling Swivel Mount, Owners Manual, Limited Lifetime Warranty, Black Hard Case Your Price: $3,078.00 EA Out of StockCall to Order |
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My Christensen Arms .308 is called a CA-10 Recon. They state that it is built on the AR-10 platform. It cost $3800 before tax, but I believe it's worth EVERY penny. They also have other calibers using the same platform. They all have match grade Shilen barrels, modified and wrapped in their proprietary carbon fiber. It is supposedly "state of the art and the best barrel currently available"!! This did not come from the company, I heard it during an episode of "American Guns". They were building this guy a rifle and this is the barrel they used. That quote came from the guy who built the rifle. Also, the Christensen rifles all have piston systems, Timney triggers and titanium flash hiders. Additionally, every metal on metal part, as well as the barrel, is lined with nickel boron, which is stronger than chrome. I've been told that everything undergoes MPI testing, but I plan to call the company to verify this. Weight is 6.5 lbs unloaded. Lastly, they have 4 different, crazy cool camo patterns, (if you go to the web site, go to the CA-10 Recon area and the camo patterns are under the "SCM Stock" tag. Mine is "Kings Snow Shadow" and my rifle has the camo on the entire rifle including the stock...I have the CTR stock). Camo is extra, but everything else, including the piston system, is standard and the company expects 1/4 MOA at 100 meters!!!!! I'd post a pic of mine but don't know how. If anyone could walk me through it, I'd be really grateful!!!!
That's kind of amusing. First off let me say that I mean no offense with this post. You obviously have a keen understanding for every technical detail of your relatively complex, state-of-the-art weapon system, yet you don't know how to post a pic on the forum.  I'm sure the latter will be easily remedied because you strike me as no idiot, but I suppose that's precisely what makes this...amusing!
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By the way, thank you all for providing your knowledge and opinions in here. As an engineer, I have an appreciation for and an understanding of what it takes to develop and produce quality products. I recently got back into guns after about 15 years of being out of the game. I'm trying to get back up to speed, and your responses help.
And thank me, too (that is, I'm thanking myself here...geez...get over yourself...) for cultivating such a useful discussion. [kissingmyselfsmiley] I have an HK91A2 and I want to adopt a cousin for it so they can eat the same ammo together, share a bore brush, and do unspeakables to each other in the velvety darkness of the gun safe. |
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in the end when you add most of the stuff up it comes out to the same price wise
you could get the plane jane and upgrade stock, trigger, rail sys about 7-800 hundreds worth However, for the conviniece of doing this little by little, you are losing resale value When you go with a plus 2500 rifle you could sell it fast for well over 80% not as easy with something you built, or something you added too also you want to get the best rifle that you can afford Just my thoughts, |
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dnilson - Read this, it includes instructions on how to post photos on arfcom. |
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Had two .308 ARs (CMMG and a build).....CMMG is sold, build is for sale, picked up LaRue OBr last monday. Buy once cry once. Sounds cool, but lacking in information or specifics that would help one to decide whether or not to follow your ... what appears to be a recommendation? I see you posted in this topic about your 'home built' which sounds damn near like a tack driver. |
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Had two .308 ARs (CMMG and a build).....CMMG is sold, build is for sale, picked up LaRue OBr last monday. Buy once cry once. Sounds cool, but lacking in information or specifics that would help one to decide whether or not to follow your ... what appears to be a recommendation? I see you posted in this topic about your 'home built' which sounds damn near like a tack driver. It is. The build shoots great, likely how an off the shelf $1800 .308 would......the point is, would fitment and so on be "good enough" for you? For me, the slack between receivers and othe little fitment things were not an issue when it came to accuracy.....but after handling an OBR, I still wanted an OBR. I may still use the build to shoot Heavy Irons in 3-gun instead of selling it. It's not that there is anything wrong with it, and it's under your $1800 off shelf price, it just wasn't an OBR. |
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MOA is MOA whether it comes from a $1000 ORC or a $3000 OBR. Price difference is all about bells and whistles and the roll mark on the lower.
Worth is a very personal thing, especially for an expensive firearm. There is no right or wrong answer as long as you are happy with your choice.. |
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dnilson - Read this, it includes instructions on how to post photos on arfcom. Thanks for the help! I'll have to transfer the pics from my phone to the computer then post them! Thanks again!! It's true, I'm no idiot, but when it comes to computers I'm barely literate. 
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AR10's are made by Armalite. I have never seen a $3,000 AR10. Then you haven't looked. $3000 AR-10 With the starting price of $1800 you can buy many of the ArmaLite models. 7.62 AR's under $1800 may have lesser quality components. Receivers made from 6000 series aluminum instead of 7000 series. Modified AR15 RE's and buffers instead of the true 7.62 size RE. At the top of the OP's price point you have Noveske or LMT with accessories. |
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MOA is MOA whether it comes from a $1000 ORC or a $3000 OBR. Price difference is all about bells and whistles and the roll mark on the lower.
Worth is a very personal thing, especially for an expensive firearm. There is no right or wrong answer as long as you are happy with your choice.. MOA isnt SUB-MOA tho
Seriously tho. I've had two different .308 AR type rifles that shot in the .6" ballpark with match ammo, there was more to it than "bells and whistles" when deciding to sell them and buy an OBR, and for me it came down to fitment and considerations when shooting at longer distances. With more slack in the receivers, you need to roll your wrist and take up the slack with your strong hand. This adds YOU to the equation of long range accuracy. With the tight receiver fitment of the OBR, you can barely grip the pistol grip if you want or do what I do and just have the tips of my fingers on the front of the grip while taking a shot....further removing me, my muscle steadiness, and my heart beat from the equation when taking a shot. If you are shooting inside of 500 yards, pretty much ANY .308 AR type rifle you are looking at will work fine with barrel lengths from 16"-20"....if you are wanting to stretch the rifles legs a bit, other things start coming into play. The remaining .308 rifle I have for sale locally, I would let go for $1300 and have around $1500 in it......$300 below the low mark set by the OP...but the accuracy has been excellent in this rifle and it has many "bells and whistles" that some $1800-3000 rifles dont. With a cut up $4 cutting board from walmart and a $30 barrel wrench, there is no reason you cant build an accurate rifle for less money if you are ok with a little receiver slop, dont care about rollmark, and want to cherry pick any bells and whistles you may want to pay more for. |
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