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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - thumper? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/10/2010 6:51:27 PM EDT
 whats the best ar15 thumper round an why? 
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458 socom IMO, lots of bullet choices for handloading, factory loads from Corbon and SBR. Uppers and complete rifles from Marty or RRA. ^^^ this! ...and the 458 Socom uses standard AR mags.  What they said......AND .458 is NOT a proprietary round. When companies hold such tight contol over a round, specifying who can manufacture ammo and who can chamber it in a weapon, ( ie: .450 Bush & .50 Beo) it's a recipe for obscurity. ETA: I forgot to mention also that the developer of the .458 (Marty) takes an active and continuing interest in further refining the round, as well as helping to troubleshoot for anyone who cares to post any difficulties they encounter!
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458 socom IMO, lots of bullet choices for handloading, factory loads from Corbon and SBR. Uppers and complete rifles from Marty or RRA. ^^^ this! ...and the 458 Socom uses standard AR mags. 50 beowulf not only has bullet choices (I load with five different bullets for myself and there are quite a few more options) and uses standard mags (bring over a box if you don't believe me), but brass is cheaper than socom, you can roll your own upper (barrels from midway, satern), and it does subsonic, although there are fewer suppressors sized for the wulf.. That being said, it IS a different critter than the Socom. The way I look at it, socom is the hot rod and beowulf is like the town car. There just aren't as many real rifle bullets for the beowulf, but who cares as both are touted as short range rounds anyways... |
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The 450 Bushmaster is the "THUMPER"...........................with Bushmaster and now the Remington making regular factory production rifles in 450 Bushmaster more and more factory ammo, brass,acessories, etc will come on board. Actually, 44 Auto Mag is the TRUE Thumper, as that is the caliber that the late Col. Cooper specified when he coined the concept.... and the AR-15 is NOT the platform he envisioned... |
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Marty is being a real nice guy here............allow me to clarify.
Cooper's Thumper specification required a 20 round magazine.....of which every manufacturer wants to forget. It was also chambered in a round identical to or similar to the 44 AutoMag, in a platform similar to the M1 Carbine.......If you're going to use the Thumper term........please use it correctly. Do not embarras yourself by allowing these modern marketing jerk wads to feed you their Thumper B.S........ You have all been sold a complete sack of Thumper *hit from today's manufacturer's.....and most all of you bought it, hook, line and sinker. I built the largest selection of big bore AR uppers of all time, as well as M1 Carbines in 10mm Magnum and 502 Thunder Sabre........and I assure you, I would never have even considered calling one of them a Thumper, because none of them met Cooper's spec at the time, and none of today's wares do either. Tony Rumore Tromix Corp |
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 so the term "thumper" is incorrect, what should i call the .458 socom etc.?  FUN!!!!!! 
personally, I refer to my 458S as a short range Howitzer. one of the reasons I went with the 458S over the others is the large selection of bullets available to the handloader. bullets as light as the Lehigh 100 grain (3000+ fps MV and one helluva fireball ) up to (and over?) 500 grain sledge hammers from Barnes, Hornady, etc... plus a large variety of weights and types (jacketed, solids, & cast) in between.
also I shoot 45/70 in a lever gun and a 12" T/C Contender so I already had a good selection of bullets on my reloading bench to work with. |
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+1 for the 458 Socom. I think a good name would be Zombie Slayer. A 405 gr. bullet at 1650 fps is more of a sledge hammer. I shot a hog last week with one. I had to shoot through a small bush to get to the hog. The bullet broke 3 limbs the size of my thumb then hit the hog in the ham and traveled through the hog exiting through the the opposite front sholder. The exit wound was huge with a chunk of bone sticking out.
RRA 458 Socom upper $700.00, Corbon 405gr. bullets $55.00, Big nasty exit wounds Priceless. 
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+1 for the 458 Socom. I think a good name would be Zombie Slayer. A 405 gr. bullet at 1650 fps is more of a sledge hammer. I shot a hog last week with one. I had to shoot through a small bush to get to the hog. The bullet broke 3 limbs the size of my thumb then hit the hog in the ham and traveled through the hog exiting through the the opposite front sholder. The exit wound was huge with a chunk of bone sticking out. RRA 458 Socom upper $700.00, Corbon 405gr. bullets $55.00, Big nasty exit wounds Priceless. And one of the FACTORY loads for te beowulf is a 400gr bullet travelling at 1875fps, the effects of which are also priceless. |
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 like it or not, it seems as though the term "thumper" has evolved and broadened in its definition. language does evolve and the 20 round qualification seems to have passed by the wayside as far as thumpers go.i know some people arer purists, get over it!!! This might be interesting to read, it is the forum specific to the late Col. Cooper's concepts (Thumper and Scout Rifle) and in this case, the definition of his Thumper concept http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=177.0 Snippets Jeff Cooper's Commentaries Previously Gunsite Gossip Vol. 9, No. 10 September 11, 2001 Various people are attempting to set up an M16, or something similar, to take what amounts to a giant pistol cartridge - and to call the result "Thumper." We intended this term to apply to a more efficient order of infantry sidearm, but the concept calls for more than just a major caliber M16. While it is true that a very powerful, large bore, short-range, pistol-type cartridge might be just what the modern infantryman needs, he also needs less weight and less bulk. The configuration of the unlamented US 30 caliber carbine seems pretty good, and today Ruger makes that piece up in 44 Magnum. That appears to be about as close to "Thumper" as we are likely to get, since to make the weapon a success it needs to be ordered in large quantities by governments, and governments are not pulling in that direction at this time. |
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so, would the term "AR thumper" be appropriate as it extends col coopers basic concept to the AR platform. i think the term thumper in this context is currently widely used, as everybody seemed to know what i was talking about in my original question. with the thumper and scout rifle concepts, maybe we can bend some of the specs and still be true to col coopers basic philosophy on these platforms. as far as the caliber as in my original question i am leaning heavily toward .458 socom! who has the best prices on rock river uppers? thanks
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The term "Thumper" sounds stupid, like some porn star name or something. Maybe the "Annihilator" would be best. Pretty much anything living on this planet except for whales could be brought down by a .458 or .50 Beowulf inside of 150 yards. That is awesome firepower.
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If you're going to use the Thumper term........please use it correctly. Do not embarras yourself by allowing these modern marketing jerk wads to feed you their Thumper B.S........ Well, if you're going to get all p*ssy about it, let's get some historical perspective on the word. Long before Cooper "coined" the phrase (I'm talkin' '60's), the term "thumper" was very common lingo referring to a large-bore, single-cylinder motorcycle, usually of British lineage. Probably because at idle they sounded like the Thumper Disney character thumping his foot. Who knows? That image may have been rattling around in the Col.'s brain when he used it to refer to a large-bore weapon.
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thumpers: bsa goldstar, norton manx, vellocette thuxton, ariel, matchless etc. if a motorcycle term can adopted as a firearms term, surely it can evolve to encompass similar firearms! just because col cooper borrowed a motorcycle term and gave it a definition does mean it is carved in stone!
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THUMP http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g61/ron458/458RMWSBR.jpg THUMP http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g61/ron458/50AESBR.jpg THUMP http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g61/ron458/45WinMagSBR.jpg Sorry, couldent resist  nice hijack to promote your own product line.[/quote] Sorry but these are mine! |
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THUMP http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g61/ron458/458RMWSBR.jpg THUMP http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g61/ron458/50AESBR.jpg THUMP http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g61/ron458/45WinMagSBR.jpg Sorry, couldent resist nice hijack to promote your own product line. |
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Quoted: Quoted: like it or not, it seems as though the term "thumper" has evolved and broadened in its definition. language does evolve and the 20 round qualification seems to have passed by the wayside as far as thumpers go.i know some people arer purists, get over it!!! This might be interesting to read, it is the forum specific to the late Col. Cooper's concepts (Thumper and Scout Rifle) and in this case, the definition of his Thumper concept http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=177.0 Snippets Jeff Cooper's Commentaries Previously Gunsite Gossip Vol. 9, No. 10 September 11, 2001 Various people are attempting to set up an M16, or something similar, to take what amounts to a giant pistol cartridge - and to call the result "Thumper." We intended this term to apply to a more efficient order of infantry sidearm, but the concept calls for more than just a major caliber M16. While it is true that a very powerful, large bore, short-range, pistol-type cartridge might be just what the modern infantryman needs, he also needs less weight and less bulk. The configuration of the unlamented US 30 caliber carbine seems pretty good, and today Ruger makes that piece up in 44 Magnum. That appears to be about as close to "Thumper" as we are likely to get, since to make the weapon a success it needs to be ordered in large quantities by governments, and governments are not pulling in that direction at this time. That's very close to how I refer to what the OP was referencing... "larger-than-5.56 caliber ARs" [edit] except that also includes calibers such as the 6.8, which are technically "larger-than-5.56" but only arguably in the category of "big bore" [/edit] |
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Considering the late Col was referencing the .44 AMP cartridge... AR-47 in 44 AMP http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/IMG_2468.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/IMG_2420.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/IMG_2421.jpg Dont forget about the 45win mag. |
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Considering the late Col was referencing the .44 AMP cartridge... AR-47 in 44 AMP http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/IMG_2468.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/IMG_2420.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/IMG_2421.jpg Dont forget about the 45win mag. The Col SPECIFICALLY called for 44 AMP. As to fitting rounds in the AK mag, the 44 AMP has a slight taper, whereas the 45 WM has minimal taper. This makes the 44 AMP fit the AK mags better, but not perfectly. While I was able to get 17 rounds in the mag, there were issues with binding. |
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Considering the late Col was referencing the .44 AMP cartridge... AR-47 in 44 AMP http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/IMG_2468.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/IMG_2420.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/IMG_2421.jpg Dont forget about the 45win mag. The Col SPECIFICALLY called for 44 AMP. As to fitting rounds in the AK mag, the 44 AMP has a slight taper, whereas the 45 WM has minimal taper. This makes the 44 AMP fit the AK mags better, but not perfectly. While I was able to get 17 rounds in the mag, there were issues with binding. Sorry Marty but the post is about bigbore chamberings in the ar15, Not the Col. The minimal taper of the 45winmag is no issue. It runs 100% out of ar15 mags with shortened follower & PVC insert. 
No need for the ak mags & magwell adapters
The Barnes 200g XPB @ 1850fps from a 10.5" brl will do what I need to get done This looad also runs 100% out of an unmodified AR mag.
Sorry, getting a little of topic. |
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. The Col SPECIFICALLY called for 44 AMP. ... Why limit yourself to a round that fires a 240gr bullet at 1500fps when you can have a .458 SOCOM and fire a 250gr bullet at 2000fps? The 'thumper' concept of a .4something in a carbine type firearm is slick, but we shouldn't limit ourselves to weapons & cartridges that outclass the original idea. |
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I considered calling my .458 "the deer whomper", but didn't think anyone would take me very seriously.
Just because Cooper used Thumper to describe an idea, doesn't mean someone else can't use it, loosen up a bit. If you insist upon continuing to be uptight, then the OP didn't capitalize "thumper", so he's clearly talking about something else entirely. |
| I had a 50 Beowulf & sold it, do to the fact, I had 500+ pieces of brass on order for 9 months w/alexander & have received nothing but excuses to its delivery date. Starline, on the other hand, has speedily shipped me 900 rounds of 458 brass. At this point in time I would go with the SOCOM as brass is readily available, and Barnes makes some killer bullets for it, not to mention others ! |
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. The Col SPECIFICALLY called for 44 AMP. ... Why limit yourself to a round that fires a 240gr bullet at 1500fps when you can have a .458 SOCOM and fire a 250gr bullet at 2000fps? The 'thumper' concept of a .4something in a carbine type firearm is slick, but we shouldn't limit ourselves to weapons & cartridges that outclass the original idea. I agree 100% Its also about flexibility & economics. The 45winmag brass is $23 per 100. Bullets are cheap so plenty of practice. A 200g .451 & a 250g .458 @ 2000fps will do a good job! The 45win mag does it cheaper. That 458 from a 16" tube? My 458 uses 50AE brass($34 per hundred) & shortened socom dies. I dont run anything that light in it but I do love to push the 350g hornady RN @ 1600fps with its 10" tube. It is a real Hog thumper
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That just gives us more options. pistol bullets for plinking and other fun stuff, and resized .458 bullets for serious knock down power.
There is also the factory ammo from hornady and remington that isnt >$2.00/round  If you reload the Barnes 200g XPB is designed for the 460S&W so it can handle the velocity. I just dont know if it will work in the 450B because of its spitzer design & the ARs OAL mag limits. |
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That just gives us more options. pistol bullets for plinking and other fun stuff, and resized .458 bullets for serious knock down power.
There is also the factory ammo from hornady and remington that isnt >$2.00/round If you reload the Barnes 200g XPB is designed for the 460S&W so it can handle the velocity. I just dont know if it will work in the 450B because of its spitzer design & the ARs OAL mag limits. i was more referring to bullets marketed for 45ACP and such. but i had not seen that offering an will have to check it out. thanks |
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Well maybe I'm a little dense, but when the Col. says
"Various people are attempting to set up an M16, or something similar, to take what amounts to a giant pistol cartridge - and to call the result "Thumper." We intended this term to apply to a more efficient order of infantry sidearm, but the concept calls for more than just a major caliber M16." and then clarifies with: "The configuration of the unlamented US 30 caliber carbine seems pretty good, and today Ruger makes that piece up in 44 Magnum. That appears to be about as close to "Thumper" as we are likely to get," I find that contradictory. Isn't a 44 magnum a giant pistol cartridge? (I know there are larger, but still) He finds it acceptable in the ruger, but trying to outfit an M16 with a major caliber doesn't cut it? Aren't they functionally the same, despite their design differences. (one is a magazine fed semi-auto rifle, and the other is a magazine fed semi-auto rifle) I could see where the .458, .450 and some of the other really great rounds would miss the boat on the "less weight and less bulk" issue. Since I don't plan to parachute in behind enemy lines, carry everything I need to eat, fight and live on for days or manage logistics for wars on two fronts, I think they'll be OK Anyway I'm going to build my rifle to suit myself and if the Col. doesn't approve, I won't let him shoot it. =D |
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Considering the late Col was referencing the .44 AMP cartridge... AR-47 in 44 AMP http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/IMG_2468.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/IMG_2420.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/IMG_2421.jpg Dont forget about the 45win mag. The Col SPECIFICALLY called for 44 AMP. As to fitting rounds in the AK mag, the 44 AMP has a slight taper, whereas the 45 WM has minimal taper. This makes the 44 AMP fit the AK mags better, but not perfectly. While I was able to get 17 rounds in the mag, there were issues with binding. Sorry Marty but the post is about bigbore chamberings in the ar15, Not the Col. The minimal taper of the 45winmag is no issue. It runs 100% out of ar15 mags with shortened follower & PVC insert. No need for the ak mags & magwell adapters. Right after I hit submit, I thought "man, that sounds like an ass" but didn't get at chance to get back here to change it. You are absolutely correct, I was trying to convey that the late Col. was the one who picked .44 for the Thumper, but like another poster said what is the difference between an M16 and the M1 in terms of functionality and isn't the 44 AMP an overgrown pistol caliber itself? With all due regard for the Col., he did seem to offer a bit of a contradictory argument (and the performance he listed for the 44 AMP appeared to be overly optimistic) I think in general, these shorter large bore rounds have been under appreciated to quite an extent... and creative folks are finding great ways to give them new life... It still perplexes me that the 50AE was not more popular in the AR15, or even the 440 CorBon. The latter was a beauty but just seemed to be ahead of its time... |
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not much love for the 450bushmaster in here. Probably because they made with pistol bullets, but pretend it's a rifle cartridge. 
As opposed to something trying to get rifle velocities out of pistol brass? You must have missed the thread where I showed how simple it is to re-size your precious rifle bullets to 0.452. |
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thumpers: bsa goldstar, norton manx, vellocette thuxton, ariel, matchless etc. if a motorcycle term can adopted as a firearms term, surely it can evolve to encompass similar firearms! just because col cooper borrowed a motorcycle term and gave it a definition does mean it is carved in stone!I consider anything with a kickstart and a compression release lever a true thumper
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Considering the late Col was referencing the .44 AMP cartridge... AR-47 in 44 AMP http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/IMG_2468.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/IMG_2420.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/martytw/IMG_2421.jpg Dont forget about the 45win mag. The Col SPECIFICALLY called for 44 AMP. As to fitting rounds in the AK mag, the 44 AMP has a slight taper, whereas the 45 WM has minimal taper. This makes the 44 AMP fit the AK mags better, but not perfectly. While I was able to get 17 rounds in the mag, there were issues with binding. Sorry Marty but the post is about bigbore chamberings in the ar15, Not the Col. The minimal taper of the 45winmag is no issue. It runs 100% out of ar15 mags with shortened follower & PVC insert. No need for the ak mags & magwell adapters. Right after I hit submit, I thought "man, that sounds like an ass" but didn't get at chance to get back here to change it. You are absolutely correct, I was trying to convey that the late Col. was the one who picked .44 for the Thumper, but like another poster said what is the difference between an M16 and the M1 in terms of functionality and isn't the 44 AMP an overgrown pistol caliber itself? With all due regard for the Col., he did seem to offer a bit of a contradictory argument (and the performance he listed for the 44 AMP appeared to be overly optimistic) I think in general, these shorter large bore rounds have been under appreciated to quite an extent... and creative folks are finding great ways to give them new life... It still perplexes me that the 50AE was not more popular in the AR15, or even the 440 CorBon. The latter was a beauty but just seemed to be ahead of its time... No problem Marty Lord nows I have made some interesting statements
I never understood why the whole time Tony/Tromix was offering true big bores he dident have more takers. My personal favorite has always been the 50AE.(I think because it was my first) I have an original Tromix 440Corbon. I plan to build a 10" upper to go along with it We are truly living in a great time with all the choices we have
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - thumper? (Page 1 of 2)
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