AR Sponsor
Posted: 1/17/2010 9:21:21 AM EDT
|
I am about to pull the trigger on a .308 AR platform complete rifle. I purchased 10 magpul p-mags, and have been eyeing the POF for a couple of years. Now with the release of the OBR and REPR, I really don't know which one to get.
I do want one in 16" and I like to idea of the Mike Rock barrel, but I am concerned by all the bad press on the POF industry forum...pls let me know your opinions. This will be a paper puncher for me, not a duty rifle, etc. Regards, Larry |
| Get the repr if you can afford it, I owned a LWRC and they're great guns, sold it because I wanted to get a 308 AR (repr wasn't out at the time) as well, kinda wish I kept it. I've also heard bad things about POF piston system from people who have owned them and in the industry. I also don't like when manufacturers (POF, LARUE) don't have a standard height top rail as it forces you to use lower mounts, cheek risers, or limits the size of optic you can use. Just my .02 |
|
Quoted:
I am about to pull the trigger on a .308 AR platform complete rifle. I purchased 10 magpul p-mags, and have been eyeing the POF for a couple of years. Now with the release of the OBR and REPR, I really don't know which one to get. I do want one in 16" and I like to idea of the Mike Rock barrel, but I am concerned by all the bad press on the POF industry forum...pls let me know your opinions. This will be a paper puncher for me, not a duty rifle, etc. Regards, Larry Well do you want DI of the OBR or the piston REPR? Do you want the high 20 MOA rail of the OBR? Do you mind the extra weight of the REPR? Can you tolerate the 6 month or more wait for an OBR or would you prefer to buy a REPR right now? Either way it's $3K+. Wait there's more. Iron Ridge Arms will have new 308 rifles out soon that look very nice. Their new complete rifle is rumored to have side charging on a billet upper and lower. Or build up a DPMS pattern lower (Iron Ridge again) and wait for the soon to be released AR Performance light weight upper that will give you a 7 lb 308 AR that will take your new Pmags. This will be a rifle you can take out in the field and not just to the bench. See the thread "7lb 308" here for more details. Choices, choices, its what BRD is all about. |
|
If you're in the market for a DI .308 rifle then also consider a Fulton Armory Titan .308. They have several configurations from plane jane to tricked out which'll go from $1800 to $2700. I bought mine with a 20" Kreiger bbl, side cocking feature (shown below), Magpul PRS stock, bennie cooley muzzle brake and ergo grip (just like the 2nd pic). After a few break-in FTF issues it works wonderfully and is more accurate than I am (using a bipod on the front and me supporting the stock I can shoot 1.25" 10 shot groups using Prvi 147gr FMJ and I'm a pretty new shooter tbh). If I put some sandbags under it I think I can definitely do <1MOA with it. The other thing I really like about the fulton is the handgaurd. It's a smooth free float tube with screw holes every 45º so that you can remove the rail sections and configure them however you like.
http://www.fulton-armory.com/Titan03-Closeup-300.jpg http://www.fulton-armory.com/TitanUPR.jpg |
|
Quoted:
If you're in the market for a DI .308 rifle then also consider a Fulton Armory Titan .308. They have several configurations from plane jane to tricked out which'll go from $1800 to $2700. I bought mine with a 20" Kreiger bbl, side cocking feature (shown below), Magpul PRS stock, bennie cooley muzzle brake and ergo grip (just like the 2nd pic). After a few break-in FTF issues it works wonderfully and is more accurate than I am (using a bipod on the front and me supporting the stock I can shoot 1.25" 10 shot groups using Prvi 147gr FMJ and I'm a pretty new shooter tbh). If I put some sandbags under it I think I can definitely do <1MOA with it. The other thing I really like about the fulton is the handgaurd. It's a smooth free float tube with screw holes every 45º so that you can remove the rail sections and configure them however you like. http://www.fulton-armory.com/Titan03-Closeup-300.jpg http://www.fulton-armory.com/TitanUPR.jpg Why would you want a reciprocating charging handle attached to the bolt? Fulton Armory uses great parts, but some things like this do not make any sense to me. They should have gone the route like the REPR or the JP LRP-07. That way you don't introduce the possibility of more crud getting into the rifle with that gigantic hole in the side of the receiver and you don't have a handle connected to the bolt flying around that could get caught on anything (like a sling when shooting weak hand) and hinder operation. Again, I'm not trying to say they are bad rifles, I just am not that sure about that configuration. When I built my LR-308, I used quite a bit of parts from Fulton, including the Criterion barrel they sell. It just seems to me that the charging handle on the bolt is the wrong way to go. I highly recommend the parts used by Fulton Armory though. The barrels, the Bennie Cooley compensator, and so on are GREAT. ETA: If the charging handle is not connected to the bolt and does not reciprocate, please let me know and my apologies before hand. Just from that picture it looks to do that. |
|
I would prefer a piston system, although watching the video of the OBR, that thing rises so little during a mag dump! I am sure the piston systems are similar. I too am worried about POF's performance, and especially thier customer service.
I like the idea of being able to utilize standard optics do to the lower overall height of the REPR. I have nothing but POF lowers on all my ARs and Noveske/Vltor VIS uppers. I have been pleased with the fit/finish of POF with the 5.56 platform, but believe I may settle in on the REPR. i have the opportunity to purchase a 16" POF with about 200rds down the tube for $2300, which would save me $1k that could go into NF optics. This rifle is from mid 2008 before they started using the roller cam pin and upgraded bolt. The current owner states that it is a real shooter, yet he is selling it due to recently purchasing a LWRC M6A3 and REPR. So....do you think that if I purchase the POF, shoot it a bit, could get my $$$ out of it if I am not satisfied? and flip it for a REPR? Thanks for the info guys! Regards, Larry |
|
Quoted:
Why would you want a reciprocating charging handle attached to the bolt? Fulton Armory uses great parts, but some things like this do not make any sense to me. They should have gone the route like the REPR or the JP LRP-07. That way you don't introduce the possibility of more crud getting into the rifle with that gigantic hole in the side of the receiver and you don't have a handle connected to the bolt flying around that could get caught on anything (like a sling when shooting weak hand) and hinder operation. Again, I'm not trying to say they are bad rifles, I just am not that sure about that configuration. When I built my LR-308, I used quite a bit of parts from Fulton, including the Criterion barrel they sell. It just seems to me that the charging handle on the bolt is the wrong way to go. I highly recommend the parts used by Fulton Armory though. The barrels, the Bennie Cooley compensator, and so on are GREAT. ETA: If the charging handle is not connected to the bolt and does not reciprocate, please let me know and my apologies before hand. Just from that picture it looks to do that. Your comments are completely valid. I would love to have seen Fulton go the REPR route as far as the side charging handle but at the time I bought it I didn't even know the REPR existed. I like the side charging handle because I can load a mag with the bolt forward and cock it without having to break my cheek weld. The handle could get caught on something but with the weight of this gun (20" heavy bbl) it's not something that you'll be doing weak side transitions with. It's not a rifle that you shoot standing. At least not for very long at all. If it were a 16" bbl battle rifle then that would be a concern for me. As far as getting dirt in the opening, yeah, it could but so far I don't use it like that. I take it to informal competitions with the RWVA and shoot it from a bench or prone. The side cocking isn't for everyone but I like it and it doesn't give me any problems. My POU and that may change however. If I were in the market now, as much as I like my .308 I would probably get a REPR. From the reports I've read, the accuracy is fantastic and it's got all the other features I would like. |
| Larue, undoubtedly. I have 2 coworkers who obtained LWRC guns (M4s), and found them unreliable and inaccurate. They have both been sent back multiple times, and both guys are unhappy with them. Another coleague obtained a POF and after more than a year, h recieved a gun that barely gauged within standards of acceptance and with an excessive amount of copper fouling in the bore. Quality gauges from a crane sniper armorer kit were used and it was also inspected by borescope. This was bought as a NEW rifle, and the amount of fouling was WAY more than should have been there for any test fire or proof testing. There is a wait on Mark's OBR, but it is worth the wait. I have fired several of them and I got to talk to Mark yesterday (I am at SHOT show now). Go Larue or remorse later! |
|
I'd avoid LWRC like the plague.
They had one of their shit box guns on the history channels "Top 10" this or that shows. And the piece of shit they submitted wouldn't even run. The douche bag shooting it had to manually cycle the thing to fire it. Not only do those scum bags at LWRC bully their junk onto these shows... they don't even have the sense to cherry pick a functional weapon. There's another dude over on weapon evolution with a non functional LWRC.... he's trying to convince himself that the shitty Cprod mags are the issue. |
|
Quoted:
If I were in the market now, as much as I like my .308 I would probably get a REPR. From the reports I've read, the accuracy is fantastic and it's got all the other features I would like. Most of those "reports" are probably LWRC shills. They pop up on the gun boards all the time to pretend that they have an independent and favorable review of LWRC's crap and customer service. Most of the time they're easy to spot since the script is usually the same. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
If I were in the market now, as much as I like my .308 I would probably get a REPR. From the reports I've read, the accuracy is fantastic and it's got all the other features I would like. Most of those "reports" are probably LWRC shills. They pop up on the gun boards all the time to pretend that they have an independent and favorable review of LWRC's crap and customer service. Most of the time they're easy to spot since the script is usually the same. I just bought the repr with a 20 inch barrel and it's flawless so far. I used the new Pmags for 308. At 100 yards I had 3 2 shot groups that were on top of one another while dialing in my scope with a total of 10 rounds. I may have gotten lucky, but my gun is extremely well put together and thought out. The price is high but it comes complete. Add glass and a bi pod and you're sub moa. |
|
Why not just get a DPMS LR308, and outfit it with a high-end barrel and trigger? You will come in at about $2000, and it will perform as good or better than the more expensive guns.
I put on a Krieger barrel and a Geissele trigger in mine, and it's a .5 moa gun and functions flawlessly. Also, I would not get a Rock barrel in 16". Why use a precision barrel that will suffer such velocity loss? I went with 20" to get a little extra velocity. Go with a medium profile barrel to save on weight, but keep it to at least 18" or you will lost velocity for those long range shots. The benefits of a piston are EXTREMELY and VASTLY overblown in guns with barrels over 14" and which do not fire full auto, and especially if this is to be a precision type rifle. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
If I were in the market now, as much as I like my .308 I would probably get a REPR. From the reports I've read, the accuracy is fantastic and it's got all the other features I would like. Most of those "reports" are probably LWRC shills. They pop up on the gun boards all the time to pretend that they have an independent and favorable review of LWRC's crap and customer service. Most of the time they're easy to spot since the script is usually the same. I have an M6A2 with about 600 rounds through it so far and it's had one FTF where it did not load a round from the magazine due to a short stroke from the crappy south african ammo I was using. My weapon is very well put together and the accuracy is fine. I don't know how you feel like they screwed you over but you're still bitter about it as you can clearly see from all the shit talking you do about LWRC on arf.com. Maybe you had a bad experience with the old company before they got acquired but the customer service now seems to be great. The gun is great and I have zero complaints. Opinions like yours seems to be in the minority. |
|
Quoted: I have a 20" POF 308.I'd avoid LWRC like the plague. They had one of their shit box guns on the history channels "Top 10" this or that shows. And the piece of shit they submitted wouldn't even run. The douche bag shooting it had to manually cycle the thing to fire it. Not only do those scum bags at LWRC bully their junk onto these shows... they don't even have the sense to cherry pick a functional weapon. There's another dude over on weapon evolution with a non functional LWRC.... he's trying to convince himself that the shitty Cprod mags are the issue. Have Cprod mags. Wouldn't work for shit until I tweaked the mags. Now it runs like a sewing machine. My gun is a work of art that puts rounds on target with more precision that I can muster. FWIW, I could have bought any of the others, but so far, my only issue has been with the mags. eta:  |
 Hey Buddy, I have Three Armalite AR-10's And One POF In .308. The Ar-10's Run Fine With The New Factory Mags .The POF Has A Problem With Some Mags. Hit And Miss With CP And Factory DPMS Mags. The Magpul Are A Little Better. You Can Also Wait For Sig .308 Or Kaiser Defence KR7, Or The LMT.
|
|
I am in the same boat. I want a 308 in a AR type platform that uses Pmags, but am unsure which to buy. I am leaning towards a piston version.
SR-25-cant afford OBR-do not really want to wait even know I love Larue stuff, but a 18' model might work POF-handled a few at Rainer arms, but after reading some posts I am afraid to buy one LMT-maybe after I see how the reviews go LWRC-if I could find a tan model 18" one I think I would buy it DPMS-maybe if the deal was right, but looking for a higher end rifle SCAR-H-not a AR type but would match my SCAR-L Did I miss something? I talked to Rainer arms about building me one with different types of specs I wanted, but the price was more then I planned on. |
|
Quoted:
I got a rem R25, installed a magpul prs, dpms rail, and jard trigger. using a harris shorty bipod and leupold glass in a larue mount, I typically do 1-1.25 MOA with quality ammo. BTW, this gun routinely outperforms the relatively new 4 M110 rifles we have.
I am in the same boat. I want a 308 in a AR type platform that uses Pmags, but am unsure which to buy. I am leaning towards a piston version. SR-25-cant afford OBR-do not really want to wait even know I love Larue stuff, but a 18' model might work POF-handled a few at Rainer arms, but after reading some posts I am afraid to buy one LMT-maybe after I see how the reviews go LWRC-if I could find a tan model 18" one I think I would buy it DPMS-maybe if the deal was right, but looking for a higher end rifle SCAR-H-not a AR type but would match my SCAR-L Did I miss something? I talked to Rainer arms about building me one with different types of specs I wanted, but the price was more then I planned on. |
|
Quoted:
[span style='font-weight: bold;']Original
If I were in the market now, as much as I like my .308 I would probably get a REPR. From the reports I've read, the accuracy is fantastic and it's got all the other features I would like. Most of those "reports" are probably LWRC shills. They pop up on the gun boards all the time to pretend that they have an independent and favorable review of LWRC's crap and customer service. Most of the time they're easy to spot since the script is usually the same. Fail. LWRC makes good gear, has good CS, and is a good company. My M6A3 (the 556 version of the REPR, basically) has never stumbled and is sub-moa with a 3x acog. Suppressed it's whole life, so far, which adds a bit of stress to the platform that unsuppressed rifles don't experience. It's a fine tool. I will be getting a REPR as soon as I can afford it! |
|
yeah - i agree... the 1st time I called LWRC they were perfect on the phone. POF lately has been pleasant on the phone as well... they seem interested in fixing the problem you have. Don't know if this matters to you or not but the repr has a proprietary upper to lower - i believe it is only made for fitting with it's counterpart. I think POF lowers will accept a couple of different uppers & vice versa... (at least from what i read).
My POF 20" 308 just got back - still waiting to try it with the new pmags and brand new cproducts mags... i'm ditching my old cproducts mags i think. They may just have bent feed lips?? Anyways - gotta like the rock creek barrel - but the charging handle on the side of the lwrc is nice! plus, at 300 yds they both shoot just as good as eachother. The POF barrel may last a bit longer... NP3 coating is nice but not necessary... new roller pin and bolt in POF's nice - runs smoother LWRC has pin available and i think I read of someone putting a roller pin in theirs and has it working... 2600 and possibly a 6 mo to 1 yr wait with POF??? 3000+ for a REPR but you get it immediately. |
AR Sponsor