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Posted: 7/30/2009 4:57:04 PM EDT
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I got a DPMS 308 with the 24" bull barrel a couple months ago. Have probably 180 rounds through it so far, followed the break in procedure of cleaning after every shot for 25 shots, then every 10 shots until 100 rounds was completed. I just put a Millet TRS-1 scope on it with the Burris PEPR mounts, a RRA 2-stage trigger, and took it out today and my best group at 100 yards was 1.75 inches using the 145gr PRVI FMJBT ammo. From some of the reading I have done it sounded like with the 1:10 twist barrel heavier bullets such as 168/175gr are more accurate than the lighter bullet. Was shooting off a bench using a bipod and was very solid, no flinching as the gun surprised me every shot, so Im assuming it has to be the ammo (hopefully not the gun!). Any ideas? I know different loads/bullet weight can affect the accuracy a lot, but I figured at only 100 yards it would group better than that. I have a friend that reloads and tomorrow am going to pick up 10 rounds from him of 168gr HPBT and take those out to see if there is a difference, the powder load is set up for his gun but just going to see how the different bullet affected accuracy.
I was also wondering for those that reload, what powder do you prefer for the AR's? I'm new to AR's as well as reloading and there was a thread somewhere around here awhile back I read where some guys were having problems with it cycling or something with a certain powder, and having better luck with another kind. Thanks for the help, I appreciate it! |
Yep...1.75MOA with Prvi ball ammo is not bad. That said...you wouldn't buy a Ferarri and run it with 87 octane gas or wal-mart tires.  A fine rifle follows the same sort of logic.
FGMM 168gr is sub-MOA out of my AR-10T, DPMS SASS and POF 20" SPR rifles, as is the Black Hills 168gr. |
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Varget is my choice for 308 - I use H-335 or W-748 for 223.
Hodgdon Varget is my go-to powder for .223 and .308. And yeah, try the Federal Gold Medal Match 168's. I've also had good luck handloading Hornady 155 A Max's. Nosler 168-gn Custom Competition bullets are a direct competitor to the Sierra 168-gm MatchKing. Either one would be good. Also - Widener's has 168-gn Match bullets in stock. |
| I have never got good groups with any military surplus ammo. 1.75 inch is very good for that quality fodder. Most ball ammo will only average around 6" at 200 yards. Any quality match bullet weighing 155 to 178 grains, from any of the American manufacturers will let you discover the real potential of your rifle. 168's have always been the Gold standard because a lot of chambers are set up to shoot them. |
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Imschur - I had a Simmons 6.5-20x40mm scope on it before the Millet, nothing top of the line at all, just an old scope I had laying around that I put on the rifle when I first got it while saving up for something else. It had the shot the same wide range groups, actually worse because I still had the factory DPMS trigger which I think is actually better served for strengthening your fingers than a trigger, damn that pulled hard!! With that old trigger it seemed like 10-15 sec from when I started the pull until the gun actually went off. Other than that I really dont have any quality scopes at all, nor the money to purchase anything at the moment. I really hope this is a good one because I cant afford to get something else, my wife will kill me lol. I got it off ebay for $280, it is one of the original versions that has the 1/8"MOA adjustment, the newer scopes are 1/4" and I think something else is supposed to be better but I dont remember what off hand. If I do have problems with it I will send it in and maybe hope I can get a new scope, from what I have heard their customer service is great.
Davids29 - At the beginning of the week I took it out with the Millet scope and it did turn out that I didnt have the scope mounts tight enough on it, the scope shifted forward in the mounts and the mounts on the rail had just a hair wiggle to them. They are TIGHT now though. planecrazy, hbruns, JohnOD, DnPRK, and borderpatrol - thanks for the powder and bullet rec's and links! I will give the front rest/sandbag combo a try, or at least get some carpet under the bipod and a sandbag on the back. DnPRK I will keep those #'s saved and give them a shot when I get to reloading. I've been shooting since I was 5 but I'm completely new to the AR scene as well as reloading, I really appreciate all of your help. Have learned alot here already just reading over the past couple months. |
| Try some 168 gr SMK or Nosler CC with 40.0 gr Hodgdon 4895. You should see 1/2 to 3/4 " groups with that. Also 155 SMK or Nosler CC with 42.8 gr of VV N140 will shoot 1/2 to 3/4 " also. The 24" 308 barrels are very accurate. I'm sure you will like it once you find the right load. I did try a box of Federal Gold Medal 168gr and in my gun it did not shoot as good as the above loads and was stronger. Good luck. As allways check the above loads in your manuals before loading them |
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You might want to try a front rest/rear sandbag combo instead of the bipod. Sometimes a bipod on a hard surface doesn't want to let the gun shoot. A carpet remnant under the bipod usually helps. John Never heard that - I will give that a shot and see how things improve! |
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Can you try a different scope while your at it? I was recently reading some scope blog that some of those Millets have QC issues. Probably worth a shot..or two to try dido... I personally hate cheap glass. I've never had good luck with low end glass. I admit I'm a glass slob, if it ain't top quality its a waste of time. I've seen myself and too many others chasing the shots around the target cause of a inferior scopes. Aslo not to toss an insult... as that's not my intention, but how well can you normally shoot? with a semi? with a bolt? there are just some people that just plain can't shoot... Again not to say this is your issue! Make sure everything it tight - scope rings, bases etc. Lap/ture the rings will help. |
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Do you think the Millet scope is likely junk? I've read mostly all good reviews on the net, but who knows who is writing them.
As far as how good I shoot, I really couldn't tell ya, I don't normally do much target shooting as far as really trying to get things super dialed in. In the past I would just go sight in the gun where it was 1-2" within where I wanted and good enough to kill whatever I was hunting, never really paid attention to group size etc in the past. Now that I have this gun I am really wanting to see what I can do with this barrel, so just getting into this precision stuff 
What do you mean by lap/ture the rings? |
In using the 155gr Scenar is there any problem with loading a mag full of them? Just doing a quick google search reading on them and a guy said he wasnt able to load them in his magazine, I think it was a bolt gun though. He wasnt complaining as he is just bench shooting...but I like to have a full magazine
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Scope rings are never perfectly round nor perfectly in line because they suffer from variations in manufacturing tolerances. If your rings aren't aligned and round, they can put stresses on your scope. A "banana-shaped" scope doesn't shoot as well as a straight scope.
Lapping uses a precision ground steel rod (lap) treated with abrasive paste (600 or 800 grit). By pushing the abrasive loaded lap back and forth across your rings, you are polishing out the high spots and straightening out the saddle where the scope lays. Click here to view a video about lapping scope rings. |
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Not to burst your bubble, but the .308DPMS guns are not sold as sub moa shooters. Many are, but they don't guarantee it for a reason. 1.75" is well within expectations.
My DPMS SASS settled down some after about 200 rounds and I went from a 2moa gun to about 1.5moa using black hills match. You might find the same thing. But really, let's look at the rifle and the role it's meant to fill. Even without shooting tiny little groups, 1.5moa is plenty accurate for reaching out to 500, 800 or 1000 yards and hitting steal consistently. At a class last year in WY, we ran our rifles out to that range under the watchful eye of some former marine scout snipers. (Amazing training that...) I'd never feel under gunned carrying one and for it's role as a designated marksman weapon, whatever accuracy you lose is made up for by it's advantages over a bolt gun. One of our instructors had carried the SR25 through falujiah and and after having shot the SR25 and M40 in combat, his choice was clear, he'd take the SR25 any day. (And he claims to have only shot 2 moa at best out of his SR25.) It's a great arm and fantastic at what it does. |
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Disclaimer directly from the DPMS pdf manual To achieve the best results for accuracy you should clean the chamber and bore after every round for the first 25 rounds and then every 10 rounds up to 100 rounds. It usually takes about 200 rounds per barrel for optimum accuracy. Please keep in mind that our barrels are production barrels not custom barrels. Accuracy is dependent upon many factors such as bullet weight, powder load, rifling twist, rifling lands, operator technique, etc. Our production barrels have achieved anywhere from 1/8” to 1 1/2” M.O.A. Obviously, we would hope that every production barrel would shoot 1/8” M.O.A., but with all of the above factors, we cannot guarantee a specific group size. |
Late I know, but do try the other ammo (even factory loaded Fed GMM and see what it can do. For plinking I use 180gr win superX that walmart sells for $14-16 local.... they have never ran out of this stuff like unlike ANYTHING else they have. But since it is heavier stuff it still shoots nice. As for the 168gr, here is my target shot a few weekends back... I think it was a fluke but DAM did it feel good to see this one. And yes it is 10 shots. I posted a thread about it on this subforum the day it happened.... I was like a kid at christmas. It would look even better without that little guy sticking out down there at 6 o'clock.
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Get your scope and mounts squared away and some match ammo 168 federal gm
Black hills 175 gr and 168 gr and you definately see 1 moa or much less !!!
Make sure your rifle barrel and chamber are squeeky clean. I like Wipe out foaming cleaner prepped by the accellerator. Also use JB bore cleaner followed by Butch's Bore shine. I use 175 sierra MK over 43 Varget,win cases and CCI BR primers cases get full match prep (primer pockets evened,flash holes deburred,trimmed and chamfered etc) I have been getting 1/2 inch groups at 200 yards 
Sightron 6x24 duplex Target scope Burris tactical rings extra high with 6 torx screws per mount for about 50 bucks Interestingly I shoot off a Harris bipod. I have shot benchrest competetion rifles (6ppc,Hall action,Hart barrels,jewell triggers etc) for quite awhile.... one last thing you must get a match trigger !!!!! Geiselle or 3 lb trigger timney, Bill springfield worked trigers work excellet,the one I use has high speed hammer and 2 lb pull !! You must get a good trigger !! The factory trigger is 8 lbs and will cause you to jerk the shot 
Later John |
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