AR Sponsor
Posted: 2/24/2008 4:42:12 PM EDT
|
I apologize for my stupidity... What I read, is that the reliablity of an AR-15 is poor because of no forward assist, and non-chrome lined barrels. Please correct me if that's wrong! So I was looking at DPMS .308's, as they have forward assist. They have chrome lined barrels, too. But, I think thinking about putting on a different barrel --- is that possible, and would it be a good idea for a standard barrel? (i.e. not bull/heavy barrel.) Or, should I just keep the barrel that comes with the DPMS? http://dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=5296 I was thinking of this one, for the weight. But it doesn't have "build" function, and I don't want to pay more for having things I won't use.. i.e. changing butt stock and forward rail(?). What MOA should I expect that rifle to be capable of, with reloads / match ammo? Also, can anyone suggest a .223 with 20" standard barrel, forward assist.. Picatinny, flat-top. (As a Second rifle, not an alternative rifle.) Sorry for the silly questions! Thanks for taking the time. |
No silly questions here, but sometimes you will get silly answers... not from me however. Ok, in order as you presented them, Forward assist is standard on almost every AR unless you speciality rig without one. Its standard fare these days. Whoever told you this info, is either, mis informed or not exactly up on this material. AR15's can provide accuracy beyond what most people expect, the shooter is usually the limiting factor, then the factory trigger. A quality AR (Bushmaster, RRA, Armalite, etc etc or a custom rig) when accompanied by Match ammo will shoot the lights out. Also, almost any reputable mfg worth his salt offers a chrome lined option or has it standard. Some like SS others "go chrome or go home." In this day and age where he AR is making a huge impact in firearms sales, the options keep getting better really. As to 308 Variants, not my strong point. I read with interest about them but someone like SHIVAN is far more versed than myself, now the big bore AR's (dia of 45 or bigger) is my real passion, well one of them. Let us know if you have any more questions fire away, and welcome to the fray. |
| I'd like to say this about forward assist. If your rifle jams or doesn't go fully into battery, most likely the forward assist isn't going to help and in fact probably jam the round even tighter. I like what one of the "experts" said about it . He said the only use he can see for it is to check your chamber by pulling the bolt back a little to expose the cartridge should one be chambered and the forward assist comes into play to close the bolt fully without having to rack the charging handle, extracting the round, again should there be one chambered, and having to reload it back into the magazine. I honestly don't see a use for it in civilian life. |
The AR15 and AR10 platforms (.223 vs. .308) are reliable systems if properly configured and maintianed. The forward assist is most common on the AR15 platform because of the military requirement for it back when the platform was adopted. Both platforms can have very tight tolerances and are capable of extreme accuracy. And it is those tight tolerenaces that contribute to the belief by some that the AR platforms are unreliable. The gas system plays a smaller role in reliability than does the tight fit between the bolt carrier and the upper receiver. If any dirt or debris gets into that area, a jam is very possible. Chrome lined barrels or chambers are less likely to rust and last longer than non-chrome lined ones but are generally considered less accurate than high quality stainless steel barrels. |
I wouldn't exactly call the bolt carrier a tight fit in the upper receiver. If you look at the four bearing surfaces on the carrier, they aren't much. The whole carrier doesn't bear on the receiver bore. I feel that the M16 jamming has more to do with bolt lugs and perhaps even the bolt fit inside the carrier. Winchester said that all their 223 WSSM barrels were chrome lined. This came about from bashing their barrels for fast burn out by bloggers. Winchester finally had enough and made that fact known plus the fact that the WSSM barrel lasted longer then say their 220 Swift. Now I've seen some of those "chrome lined" barrels shoot some mighty small groups. It can be done, but in general you are correct they aren't as accurate. |
|
Please excuse my ignorance once again, But if I want to get an AR-15 variant that won't jam from light debris, where should I look? My understand of what you said is, it's reliable if it's very clean... As far as I could tell, H&K doesn't sell their 4-16 to civvy's. Thanks! |
|
Benchrest competitors do not use chrome lined barrels. At least I never heard of one. A chrome moly or stainless barrel is only expected to last 700 to about 1400 rounds and then it's trash. PPC's are real barrel burners. Seems like a chrome lined barrel would extend barrel life in this case? I suspect chrome lined barrels are not used because they are not accurate enough to compete with the chrome moly and stainless barrels. Would you rather have a barrel that lasts a long time, or would you rather have a barrel capable of winning matches even though it will be lucky to last one season. I know of some competitors that will screw on a barrel for about a $500.00 expense, apiece, and unscrew it the next day, throw it in the corner, and install another new barrel. They continue this ritual until they find what they call a "hummer", (accurate barrel capable of winning). And the other competitors are not stupid, they never buy a used barrel even if it has only 20 rounds through it. I used to buy six barrels per summer shooting season and pray one of them will shoot. Sometimes I would get two barrels out of the group that would shoot, they rest were $500.00 tomato stakes. |
There has been much discussion that H&K is going to begin to sell the 223 and 308 AR's to civilians, however that has yet to be seen but it supposedly is coming. |
Frank and company at POF make a very good product, I know them personally and they stop by this corner from time to time and say hello and post new photos of their 308 rifles. Overall they get a good rep for quality, however the detraction is, there is a bit of a wait from what I have been told...call or post in their dedicated forum to get the latest info. |
I'm very satisfied with my Bushmaster 20"... other options are as you list... Very reliable & a good gun to shoot. Out of the box, most any quality AR should be able to shoot into a 2" circle at 100 yards. Mine can. I seek to improve this by handloading my ammo. Check around the forums for a week or two, some rifles are better than others... and some rifles (and manufacturers) are simply TERRIBLE! ETA And don't apologize for your 'stupidity!' You are actually asking some very smart questions. And, you are checking with some very knowlegible people to dispel some of the rumors, falsehoods, and downright nonsensical information that people can pick up, by checking here. Remember... there are no stupid questions... only stupid mistakes! |
|
Would this barrel have a longer life span? :D (Note, it's 20" version). Also, would the muzzle break be threaded on, perm-attached, or ...? Thanks for the help, all! -------------- http://www.pof-usa.com/p308/P-308-20-MRR-CF-308-SPR-C.R.O.S..htm Barrel: 14.5" W/Perm attached muzzle device, Heavy contour, Fluted to reduce weight and Heat 4150 Mil-B-1159F Vanadium Alloy (machinegun rated) 70 Rockwell case hardened heat treated "5R" polygonal barrels are 2X harder then Mil-Spec & Hammer Forged barrels Corrosion resistant and 10 times thicker and hardness than mil-spec chromed lining "5R" Polygonal Rifled barrels from Rock Creek Barrels, Inc. BC-A5 Muzzle Device Chamber: 7.62X51 mm NATO (.308 Cal.) |
If you are talking about the POF 20" .308 barrel, made by Rock Creek, then no, the flash hider would not be perm attached. According to NFA rules, the total length of the barrel must be not less than 16 inches. Otherwise, if you bought the 14.5" barrel, the FH would then have to be perm attached. However, if your state allows SBR's then you would have to buy a tax stamp and register it with BATFE as a "short barreled rifle." |
AR Sponsor