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Posted: 12/31/2007 3:41:02 PM EDT
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Has anyone had problems with the Lee dies? My loaded rounds are tight in the chamber, definitely not what I would call the usuall drop in fit. I am having functioning issues, failure to eject and figure it is related. I am not a very experienced reloader for rifle cartridges, but have loaded a lot of pistol rounds. I am taking the die all the way to the shell holder for my resizing, but, A new empty brass case will also not chamber easily. Thanks Tim |
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Have you checked to make sure the case is not over maximum length? Trim to .010 under max and see how it loads. Also, is the shell holder the same make as the dies (Lee)? If not that is very likely your problem. Sometimes when the dies and shell holder are not the same "thickness" from bottom of case head to top of shell holder, the die can not be screwed down the proper amount. In almost 40 years of hand loading this is one thing I insist upon, shell holder matching the make of the dies. If the dies are not bumping the shoulder back to the right location then it will be a very tight, and often too tight a fit. The .458 SOCOM does not use sloppy chambers like many military chambers are so if the brass is a bit long in the tooth and the shoulder of the case is not being bumped back then that can easily be the source of tight chambering. One last thing, all cases for auto loaders, including new ones should be FL sized at least for the first shooting. On bolt guns I set up differently than with autos since the camming force of the bolt action is not there, but for autos set that case up to chamber easily and FL resize, even if new. |
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I don't think the overall length is the problem. The brass seems to be scraping on the body itself as that is where I am seeing the marks. I will go back and double check the length, but I think the problem is taking place before fully seating. Just for my fyi, will a new piece of brass normally "drop in" a chamber? |
Lots of problems with Lee dies. Fairly well documented on 458socomforums.com. Although generally they were excessively sizing the brass, not undersizing, which is what sounds like you've got going on. Marty was talking with them about chamber dimensions, if these are some new dies...they might be making them too loose now. Check your brass against these measurements:  Might be worth your effort to contact Marty to see if he has any of those chamber/cartridge gauges left, that would be any easy way to check. Chamber neck diameter is .492, so as long as your loaded round neck diameter is less than that by a few thousandths, you're good to go. |
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I had the opposite. the lee dies were resizing the bass way too small requiring a ton of force. I also smash a few cases. I got the CH4D and havent looked back. lee dies are crap IMO. also make sure if your seating 405s you need to seat them lower(up to the 2nd cannalure) or they will not fit in the chamber- causing stuck rounds. I started loading with the 458's and it was a rough road. Many problems but it has paid off since everything elese seems to be real easy. ETA the marks/striations your seeing are normal from what I've seen |
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My numbers for a loaded sized brass are right in line with what you have. I don't have a micrometer, but my caliper is a good one. I also have 1.570 for case length and 2.02 for cartridge length with the remmington 300's. I got the barrel from Marty, I will shoot him and email and see if I can have him check it out for peace of mind. Thanks for any further suggestions. Tim |
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I'm just going to go out on a limb and ask if you are using the stock extractor spring? The reason I ask is that I had severe feeding issues with my .458 SOCOM. The brass was getting chewed up and had lines scratched into it. It turned out that my Wolffe HD extractor spring was the culprit. Chances are good that you're running the stock extractor spring, but I figure it was worth mentioning. 
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Just be aware that there have been problems with the CH-4D dies also. When the .458 SOCOM loading dies group buys first got started there were all kinds of problems with the CH-4D dies and everyone was switching to Lee, of which the group buys were done and there were few problems. The most important thing you can do when loading the.458 SOCOM is to use a good lubricant, not some crappy spray on but a really good lube like Imperial Sizing Wax. Almost everyone who has stuck cases, collapsed shoulders...were using crappy spray one lubes or not enough of the roll on pad types. I use several sets of CH-4D dies (.50 BMG, .500 Phantom, .470 Rhino...) and they are top notch in every way, but there were problems with the CH-4D .458 SOCOM dies at the beginning. I hope they have the problems worked out by now but I am almost willing to bet that the Lee dies are not the source of the problem. The .458 SOCOM gets scratched up during the chambering and that is normal. If the scratches are more gouges than just surface scratches then that is something to be concerned with, but my .458 SOCOM, .500 Phantom, and .470 Rhino (as well as my 6.5, 6.8, and numerous 5.56) all scratch up the brass to some extent so slight scratches are nothing to be concerned with. When crimping you should go lightly or none at all. I have gone from no crimp to 1/4 turn crimp on the Lee die with or without crimp groove to 1/2 turn crimp on bullets where the crimp groove lined up and have gotten the best accuracy using 1/4 turn crimp, with our without crimp groove. You can only crimp when no crimp groove is present with the Lee FCD or you will collapse the shoulder using a standard roll crimp die if the crimp groove does not line up with the case mouth. But even without a crimp, not even on 500 gr. bullets, do the bullets move under recoil. They neither unseated due to recoil nor get bumped back into the case from being bumped against the front of the mag. A good tight neck tension will hold a bullet better than most crimps will anyway and I like my expander button to be between .003 and .005 inch BELOW bullet diameter. I also only expand the necks with an M type die be it Lyman, RCBS, CH-4D, or anyone else's version. |
Good replies, my Lee die set (3 die set) is not great, the stem needed to be changed but Lee did send me it when asked about the problem, I believe they replaced it with one for a 44 Mag die set, but I need to check on that again. Go with the Hornady dies. |
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Just got his Email (well, I just downloaded Email I should say). It is one of the uppers we built some time ago with extractors that are popping their ugly heads up - if the issues are with the bolt not closing the last 0.25" or so, it is in the extractor... which might also make extraction difficult. We can replace that extractor no issue, no question asked... As to using Win296, should work well with not much (if any) unburnt powder. Try a loaded round, with the BCG removed and see if it will just "plop" in the chamber. It should fall right in and then fall out (a little shake perhaps). If it does all that, then the culprit is where I suspect. Strange thing is that all these uppers were test fired and functioned without issue, but I wonder if some of the newer brass has a stouter rim ... |
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Pulled the Barrell and a new loaded round will drop right in and it needs a little tap to pop out. Some are a little tighter than others. I might be using too much crimp, so I will back off. It sounds like my problem might be the extractor, as I think about it, I always have a live round that is just out of battery, but the action is locked up pretty tight and it takes some force to eject the round. I never would have thought of an extractor. Thanks for everyone's help  Thanks guys. Marty, I will send you an email. |
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