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Posted: 5/30/2006 4:23:32 PM EDT
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Who reloads the Barnes 300gr XFN (100% copper flat nose) bullet? The reason I ask is because recently I reloaded both the Barnes 300gr XS Spitzer and the Barnes 300gr XFN. I was going to use the same powder (Reloader 7) and charge. But because of the length of the base portion of the Barnes 300gr XFN bullet I was getting a compressed charge. So instead I ended up using Hogdon H110 for the Barnes 300gr XFN bullets. XS Spitzers were loaded to a 2.25" COL. XFNs were loaded to a 2.02" COL. As a comparison, I measured some critical dimensions of the Barnes 300gr XFN and the Hornady 300gr jacket flat-nose bullet... Barnes 300gr XFN... o OAL = 1.045" o Base-Cannelure = 0.580" Hornady 300gr JHP... o OAL = 0.816" o Base-Cannelure = 0.320" So... As you can see there is a substantial difference in bullet dimensions. Any suggestions for loading the Barnes 300gr XFN bullet (bullet seating depth, powder & charge, COL, etc.)? |
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Thanks for the response. OK, to clarify... The Barnes XFN rounds I am loading to a max COL of 2.02". I'm using that measurement because all the load data I have for 300gr flat-nose type rounds are all listed at a max COL of 2.02". However, using this particular bullet (Barnes 300gr. XFN) and the desired powder & charge (38gr-40gr of Reloader 7) I am unable to seat the bullet to the indicated max COL because the charge fills up the case and prevents the bullet from completely seating. I posted this thread to see how people are loading the Barnes 300gr XFN as I don't have any reloading data for that particular bullet and apparent equivalents do not work. Also, this is my cherry attempt at reloading.  ETA: I believe all the requested data was already posted in the 1st post. Was there something more specific you wanted to know? |
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First I know nothing about bullet, so I am gun shy! Unless I have a bullet to mike I cant realy help. things to answer: IS it a flat base or a boat tail? Next is total bullet length? final would be, what is max col? You do this by chambering a non crimped round. No powder or primer just case and bullet. If its more then 2.25, then that is one less factor. Got to give room for the bullet to move. Now for something close and of the wall. I'm playing with a horndy 300 GR black powder bullet. It's a long 451 cal bullet. Yes 451 and not 458. Flate base 1.075 length. I seated it .400 to give a total COL of 2.248. 39.1 grains of reloader 7 gave 34582 psi, and 97.6% filling. HIS Also this is close to max round length, and will need to be miked evey time. This is not your same bullet but might get you closer. REMBER TO START 10% LESS AND LOOK FOR HIGH PRESSURE AS YOU WORK UP! I DO 15% BECAUSE POWDER IS A LOT CHEAPER THEN THE RIFFLE! |
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Big, I almost posted last night, but as I do not have specific data for that bullet I opted out. I suspect that at some point, someone will chime in. As you are new to reloading I will add a few thoughts (just in case). As to the OAL found in some of the Socom data, it is merely what has worked for someone, and may not be what you need. A good reference point. A place to start. There are several OAL issues that you need to consider. First, the Barnes bullet must be 50 thou from the lands, for safety. This should be a non issue for this bullet. If you want to check this IM me as it is a bit lengthy to explain. The second consideration is magazine length. Again, you should be well under this with any OAL that would seat this bullet. The third issue is feeding. This you will not be able to determine until you have some loaded rounds. The fourth issue is bullet tension. Is enough of the bullet shank into the case neck to hold the round for feeding, ignition and accuracy. What I would do is lay out the 300 grain X SP bullet, the 300 FP and an empty case on your bench. Line things up so that the 300 XSP is laying beside the empty case at the 2.25 length (or whatever you loaded safely before. Note where the base of this bullet would fall if projected into the case. Next set the 300 FP beside the case, and align it so that it's base is at the same point as the SP. Try to roughly measure this "OAL". This will give you a place to start with the FP that should have similar case capacity as the SP, and the pressures should be somewhat similar. As you will have to rework from lower charges with this new bullet, it gets you into the ballpark. I bet the length will end up being close to the 2.02 OAL. This only works with similar bullets, and I suspect that the two Barnes bullets are pretty similar from the ogive on down. It is not possible to seat a bullet two far out unless you violate the items in the third paragraph above. If you are compressing the powder a bit, that can be a good thing in an autoloader. If you are hearing the kernels deform (crunch), or the bullet tip is getting badly dented, then your only choice is to seat longer, use less powder or use a faster powder. As long as the round has most of the neck of the case filled with bullet, I would not sweat the OAL too terribly. Forget about the crimp groove, it's designed for a 45-70 cartridge. All of this assumes you are working up from a lesser powder charge, safely. If you can spring the coinage for a Stoney Point Bullet Comparator kit, this can save a few headaches. This allows you to seat bullets to the same distance from the lands to the ogive of the bullet (roughly the place where a bullet's nose starts to be at it's rated diameter). As long as the base of the bullet does not protrude more than the other bullet into the case body, and as long as you have enough case neck grabbing the bullet shank, you can toss OAL mostly out the window. The Barnes bullet is absolutely the worst bullet for a new reloader to work with. As they are less dense than lead, they are always longer for a given weight comapred to a traditional lead bullet. They must be set 50 thou from the lands, or you can get into big trouble. And the killer is the price. They work as advertised, but their price tag tends to make you want to cut corners in the load developemnt stage. That is a no go in anyones book. I would suggest that if you want to use Reloader 7 for both, and have found your recipe safe for the spitzer, start low again with the charges with the FP, work up testing for pressure. If you are getting a little powder compression, but everything else looks good, do not sweat the OAL to the penny. When I am doing accuracy work, the OAL is usually the last thing I tinker with. I get the powder selected that looks good velocity and pressure wise, then I adjust slightly in or out to dial in the combination for accuracy. Every load has a sweet spot for length. If the compression of the powder is excessive, this will usually show up at the bench with that crunching noise or bullet deformation, and will usually show up on the chronograph with wild swings in velocity. It can also show up in variations of seating length that are outside your normal swings with noncompressed loads. By the way, H110 is noted in pistol charges for liking a bit of compression. I have been reloading for a long time and love Barnes bullets. I always cry when I have to buy several hundred, as it usually takes me 50 or more rounds to get things where I want them. It's tempting to cut some corners. It just takes time and experience to figure out which corners can be shaved, safely. Craig |
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Big, There have been what I would consider quite a large number of 458 shooters who have picked this one to start the reloading learning curve. I guess this is a good thing, as it means folks like the 458 enough to put forth a bit of effort. It's really not a hard one to do, it is just that rifle cartridges, in an autoloader no less, can be a littler trickier than your average pistol calibers, the place a lot of folks get started. Good luck, Craig |
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Murph ran the 300 XFN with VVN130 at the crimp groove, his load is in the spreadsheet we send out to folks. I have not loaded the 300 XFN myself, but it is longer than the Spitzer and would require a lesser charge. 35 gr of Re7 appears to be just over the edge. I would try a different powder, say RE10X and a COL of 2.255. Do what BB said and make sure it chambers (make a dummy, you can always pull it apart and reuse) and make one or two rounds to test fire to ensure no pressure signs show up. Drop me an Email and I can share some more load info Marty |
Duh! I managed to overlook that quite nicely. Wow, I see the note that these are extremely hot loads but he's only pushing about 1500fps velocity. I'm not familiar with the VV130 powder. Is that typical? Is there a concern with trying to push the XFN closer 1900?
I've got a couple of bullets and cases sitting out and clearly see what BB1 is talking about. I seriously doubt the XFN would chamber if I only seat it as far as the spitzer. I noticed that 40gr of Reloder 7 come up to just about the shoulder. Anyway, I'll take a few pics and embed some measurements and post back up for reference purposes. Email on the way. Thanks, ChrisG |
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Eek! Well, I understand now why trying to push the Barnes XFN hard is pointless. All that bullet seated in the case I guess creates so much extra tension that it elevates the pressures quickly. Add, to that the fact that the bullet doesn't feed worth a crap and I won't be messing with this one anymore. The Barnes XS Spitzer and Hornady JHP over Reloader 7 sang like a dream tho! I've got to drop a bit from the listed max and I want to get them over a chrono soon. Marty, my high pressure loads (popped a primer out) with the XFN/H110 caused the little ejector plunger thingy to get stuck behind the bolt face. I managed to get it out but the end of it looks deformed. I'm assuming I need a new bolt. I can order this from you direct? |
I would have to see the ejector, it might still be OK, but I am not sure how it got stuck BEHIND the bolt face. Can you supply a picture? And yes, we have bolts handy ... Also, let me know what overall length you were using with the 300 XFN and I can give you some of those loads - I suspect your H110 was too high 
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Just a follow-up to finish this thread... 1) I will not be posting pics w/measurements. I decided against loading the XFNs. I'm too new at this game to be trying to break trail on this. I'll leave it to someone else to run point. 2) Marty determined that I broke the roll pin for the ejector on my bolt. Quick fix and should be back to me shortly. 3) Who the hell bought up all the Barnes 300gr X Spitzers?????!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Big, Glad the breakage was minimal. I have so many spare parts for all of my AR's except the 458. The only part lacking is a spare bolt for the 458 to complete my AR spare parts case. With regard to the availability of Barnes bullets you will find that they are small enough to be considered a custom shop when it comes to their products. They make runs of certain bullets, then have to retool for others. And, I think that they like to minimize inventory for year end. Consequently, I have found definate "shortages" of certain bullets at different times of the year. Combine that with the prices they charge, and I think a lot of distributers tend to not stock as heavily. Now is a good time to start stocking big game bullets, a bad time to find varmint bullets. Another Barnes "issue" is dated bullets. Barnes is on the cutting edge of design and flexibility, and I have found that you have to be careful when buying from places that may have had bullets sitting on the shelf a long time. I have found some intersting things over the years grabbing Barnes bullets from the back of a shelf in a small reloading supplier. Craig |
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