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Posted: 1/2/2006 11:17:10 AM EDT
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I was just about to leave to go put into layaway a Bushy .308, 20". I figure since they're discontinued, it might even be an investment of sorts. Anyhow, some dumb questions, as I'm very unfamiliar with AR10-types: 1. Will the Bushmaster accept the collapsible stocks sold for the "AR10"? I don't know if these rifles are pretty much interchangeable with parts like the AR15s or not.... Handguards made for Armalites also interchangeable? Other parts compatibility/ incompatibility issues? 2. Bushmaster .308 bbls were/are all chrome-lined, correct? Since they took them off their website, I can't check it there. I know all their ar15s are chome-lined. 3. Any reason to NOT get the Bushmaster, vs. an Armalite or DPMS instead. The Armalite most like the config I'm about to get (unless I hear not to, fast) is most like the Armalite AR10 A4 'SPR' rifle. I can think of one good reason TO get the Bushy - FAL mags.... Thanks. |
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the inability to obtain a new bolt when the Bushy's bolt cracks would be reason #1 for me. Reason #2 would be the outrageous pricetag for a gun that likely won't have any kind of warranty (again, due to parts not being made) I don't need a third reason. DPMS for price-to-accuracy. Armalite for the lifetime warranty. I don't mind tinkering every now and again, and even if I have to replace major parts, it's still cheaper than the Armalite....so the DPMS was my choice and I'm very happy with it. (I'd still like to get one of the new upper receivers though....mine is the old style sans deflector and forward assist) |
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ok, thanks. That is a major consideration - replacement parts. Does DPMS not make one with a 20", standard contour barrel? They don't seem seem to make the config I want. The only non-bull barrel they offer is with a 16" carbine correct? I've put off the purchase temporarily BTW, until I get more info. |
| ok, nevermind; they sold the last bushy right out from under me. So looks like like I'll be ordering an armalite or DPMS. Thanks. Man I love the smiley choices on this site! h.gif |
There are major problems with the Bolt design that causes them to break with use. Troy had a pretty good explanation a while back. The design cannot be fixed because of the FAL magazine usage - they had to delete a locking lug which puts more stress on the remaining lugs. I'm sure this had something to do with it being discontinued. Bottom line is if you want to use FAL magazines - buy a FAL. I would stay away from the BAR10 unless you just want it as a collectible. If I may quote Troy on this: Quoted: Back in 1998, when Hesse announced that they were going to make a .308 AR using FAL mags, I was warning people here that either it wouldn't feed around the 6-o'clock bolt lug, or Hesse would delete the lug and the bolts would break. Both Hesse and later ASA ended up making small runs of .308 ARs, leaving the 6-o'clock lug. Both had the predicted feed problems due to the FAL mag, which is designed to feed to the center (the FAL has a rear-tilt-locking bolt design with no barrel extension or locking lugs). When Bushmaster announced their FAL mag .308, my first question was "How are you going to get the ammo to feed around the 6-o'clock lug on the barrel extension?" When they said that they had deleted the lug, I told them they would have problems with the bolt lugs breaking. Well, here we are...  -Troy |
And that is the only reason most everybody has come up with for getting the Bushy. Cheap mags is not a reason to get a rifle that will eventually break bolts. If you get one, make sure you buy a good stock of bolts from Bushmaster to replace them over the life of the rifle. I think by federal law, Bushmaster is required to provide warranty work for 10yrs after the stop of production (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). So make sure you get enough bolts to last you well past that 10yr mark-I'd rather have too many than not enough. |
| don't forget that there were other good reasons for getting the bushmaster: it is ambidexterous, and it is accurate, and you can scope the flattop easily.I'm a lefty, and i've put tens of thousands of rounds through m1a and fals. they are great rifles but they don't scope well and are awkward for leftys. the bar 10 was much more accurate out of the box then my m1a ever was even after custom work by Smith enterprises. that said, i am disillusioned by the bolt problem and am selling mine- i'm giving up on the 308 semi auto for the time being because I think a scope and cheap mags are both crucial. |
I have a FA (Actually an L1A1 clone)L with the DSA picatinny secure top cover. I think it scopes great. Why do you not think so? I think you just need the right hardware. |
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-DR: thanks for the input on the top cover- i've considered these but never invested in one. if you've had good results they must be solid. I never tried one becuse the fal really works against a lefty: -changing mags requires two hands-right manipulates mags while left index comes forward to bolt stop release. -safety is worked awkwardly with left index- no after market ambi safety to my knowledge. -bolt worked with rifle rotated ninety degrees-bolt down, right hand reaches under rifle past mag. I really enjoyed the fal and shot it a lot with iron sights. but the ergonomics are just bad for a lefty. it still looks like the best choice for quality and value if the scope mount works well. |
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Any one looking for great prices on any rifle DPMS makes. Give Tony Caspers from Final Option a call. FINAL OPTION Just click the contact us link on their home page He has great prices for AR15.com members. Just let him know where you heard it from. I bought my first AR-15 M4 from him last year, I paid around $750. Getting ready to buy my 2nd in .308. |
Won't argue about the bad lefty ergos, but since I am right handed, I wouldn't really see that. Some complain about the mag release, but on my Inch rifle, it has the ultra wide aussie mag release that makes it super easy to quicky rock the mag out with one hand (Left hand, in my case). I put a metric BHO on mine, works great as long as I use metric mags. Yeah the scope newer scope mounts are rock solid, hell even the Tapco one I had was solid, just made out of soft metal tho, edges would mushroom when an ejected round hit it. I am just in love with the adjustable gas system and how easy it is to use and maintain. Here she is with the Tapco stripper clip mount - worked great - rock solid, just soft alloy that dinged easy. You want to get one with the screws that tighten but don't ever contact the receiver, like this one, and they wont ever touch the receiver. The DSA mount is like that, top quality. (the yellow arrows are just pointing out where the brass hit when ejected - was used in another thread, on FALFILES.COM where some one asked where everyones brass hit when ejected) 
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The deleted locking lug is on the BARREL EXTENSION, not on the bolt. |
Check again, Troy doesn't spout nonsense. Source |
Are you talking about the pictures of the BOLT that are posted above? You understand the difference, right? No one ever said there was a locking lug deleted from the bolt. Rastus - can you post a pic of the barrel extension on your BAR-10? I'd be very interested in seeing it. |
And then we need an AR10, SR25 or DPMS barrel extension beside it for comparison. Would be interesting to see. |
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Armalite's statement on why they didn't use the FAL magazine link
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| I have followed this discussion on the Bushmaster 308's broken bolt issue for some time on this and other threads - I don't support or dispute it as I have know basis to do either. However - does anyone actually have any statistics on how many (if any) bolts have actually broken on the Busmaster 308's. Thanks in advance for the information. |
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i bought one of these rifles a year ago- had the bolt break and gall the upper receiver after 500 rounds. at that point I posted on this forum and found record of one other broken bolt. I have another thread currently on this forum requesting direct info on this problem- received notice of one broken bolt so far. that makes three I know of for certain. bushmaster will not confirm a number on this issue. they eventually sent me a new rifle after my problems, and I put it away hoping to find out what this is all about- i'm not much closer to an answer. they have confirmed that they will sell extra bolts ($149) and that they will not sell extra barrels. |
Sounds like they did not do enough R&D on it. I wonder if a bolt was machined out of stronger steel like a 410 grade stainless if it would last longer. |
Email sent. |
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