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Posted: 1/18/2017 8:48:41 PM EDT
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Looking for a 16" lightweight barrel that will not break the bank per say. I am leaning toward a Faxon 16" Pencil(or the 14.5 pinned/welded flash hider/brake/comp).
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XFXB16PM&name=FAXON+FIREARMS+16+IN.+Pencil+.223%2f5.56+4150+QPQ+Nitride+Barrel&search=faxon+pencil However, I see PSA has a couple of pencil barrels in stock. There is no weight listed for them. What are differences in these barrels I am not seeing and does anyone know the weight of them? http://palmettostatearmory.com/16-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-7-ss-pencil-barrel-5-56-nato-1-7-freedom.html http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-7-ss-pencil-barrel-5-56-nato-1-7-freedom.html I am also open to suggestions for other competively priced 14.5-16" light weight barrels. |
| I replaced a 16" carbine, SS govt profile barrel with a Faxon 18" Gunner. Its light on the muzzle end but a little heavier on the breech end. It is really balanced nice and is almost 13 oz lighter than my old barrel. It's really nice and a better shooter than I am. |
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Go for the Faxon GUNNER... For a very modest increase in weight, you have a little more material on the barrel where you need it.
The majority of my shooting these days is 3-Gun, where we go from essentially a mag dump engaging multiple close range targets to long range shots out to 500-ish meters sometimes. A good stage designer will configure a stage so that you need to get that barrel hot before you have to make precision shots. I ran a pencil barrel for a couple of seasons (a Voodoo). While it was a pretty accurate barrel, I did notice some POI changes and groups opening up after about 30-45 rounds. I built out a Faxon 18" GUNNER and never looked back. Not only is it more accurate, but the POI doesn't change nor do the groups open up when it's hot. If you're looking at a pencil barrel, I think you'd be happier with a GUNNER. |
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Highly recommend the Faxon 16" gunner. Have it on my lightweight build. More accurate than I am, and seriously light weight. Would not recommend getting it from Aim surplus, but thats another story  Quoted:
Highly recommend the Faxon 16" gunner. Have it on my lightweight build. More accurate than I am, and seriously light weight. Would not recommend getting it from Aim surplus, but thats another story The pencil is a little lighter at 1.19lbs vs gunner at 1.29lbs. The 14.5 pencil is 1.09lbs. Just not sure I want to mess with pinning and welding a flash/brake/comp. It is not that the pinning and welding is the problem, but if I need to remove it later for any reason. I have not issues with AIM and they are fairly close to me. Quoted:
I replaced a 16" carbine, SS govt profile barrel with a Faxon 18" Gunner. Its light on the muzzle end but a little heavier on the breech end. It is really balanced nice and is almost 13 oz lighter than my old barrel. It's really nice and a better shooter than I am. Great. I put a faxon barrel in my 9mm build with no complaints. Any other recommendations. I shot an email to PSA about those two barrels but last time I emailed them I never heard back. |
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The Faxon Gunner is what you are looking for, it's my favorite barrel out there and I'd choose it over ones that cost twice as much if they were both free. Faxon tends to make their barrels a little lighter then others that are labeled lightweight. I haven't heard much on the PSA ones but I'm sure they are fine if you are wanting to save a few bucks I think they had the 16" SS pencil Freedom barrel for $80, I considered it for a budget build but after shipping that's about $95 or so and RightToBear has Faxon Gunners for around $150-160 Shipped and to me it's worth paying an extra $50 to have a Faxon considering your already going to have around $500 in the build anyway.
Another decent choice is Ballistic Advantage they have both 14.5 middy & 16" carbine & middy pencil barrels for about the same as the Faxon barrels but if you wait for one of them to be the barrel of the week (could take a year) and add the 10% first time customer discount you'd have a pretty good price. But still it's hard to beat the Faxon barrels. There are a lot of reasons I pick them above everything else and to name a few they are a great company and very active on the forum. All of their barrels are offered in 4150 Nitrated barrels which should last as long as any barrel out there. And the main reason is when it comes to light barrels Faxon leads the pack. On a standard barrel I wouldn't put Faxon over someone like Green Mountain but GM don't offer lightweights & most companies that do only have 1-2 like Ballistic Advantage while Faxon is mostly all lightweight barrels. From the limited personal experience so far and the countless reviews I have read it seems like Faxons lightweights hold better groups then others and more importantly it seems they don't start shifting point of impact a lot like most lightweights when they get hot. Just go to Faxons page or RightToBear or read reviews on here and you will see what I mean. Now the reason I choose the Gunner over the Pencil mostly is because I like the standard A2 FSB and the Pencils gas block length is only long enough for a lo pro so no A2 FSB on it but the gunners is long enough for it. Also there isn't that much of a difference in weight between the two barrels but the Gunners increased weight is where it is the most important (under the handguard). Unlike the standard government profile everyone buys with the pointless extra weight out front doing no good except to add extra weight. The gunners will perform as well as any Gov profile barrel since they still have the same profile under the Handguards as the Gov profile where it matters. I'm sure there's nothing wrong with the Pencils either everyone loves them both just make sure you don't plan on installing a FSB. As to the poster above saying they wouldn't order from Aim, that is the first bad report I've ever heard and have done business with them for almost 15 years now. I put AIM above most companies out there, I haven't ordered much from them lately and stuff can change so I am open to hearing what how bad experience was with them but it's the first I've heard of it from me. I just ordered a 14.5" Gunner from RightToBear about a month ago and I believe they had the cheapest price on the Gunners. Aims might be better if you want a lo pro already attached. I wouldn't buy one of their new barrels that come pinned already just because that is one very ugly flash hides/muzzlebreak. I know they had limited options since it has to have a small diameter to add gas block/barrel nut etc later but I just couldn't own one that ugly. I really dig the Phantoms for $20-25 and if you can't pin one yourself find a local shop that can do a spot weld on it for ya or send to someone on here that is reputable to have done like John Thomas or Adco. If I didn't have the means to pin one myself I'd probably have just gotten the 16" Gunner, not a whole lot of difference anyways about 1.3" difference on total length with a A2 FH. |
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Thanks for the detailed response., Wolverine08. Nice to another member from WV as well. Perhaps we are close in proximity. Anyways, to get this straight the only real difference in the two between gunner and pencil is that the gunner will accept an A2 type front gas block(and the slight weight difference)? I do not plan on using one for this build but the one that comes pre-installed from AIM. Pinning and welding is not the issue but removing it in the future for an unforeseen issue might pose a problem.
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The Faxon Gunner... |
| I got a Faxon Gunner from AIM with the pinned gas block. It is my favorite barrel and build to date. I prefer the Gunner over the Pencil unless you are going for the absolute lightest weight you can get. The Gunner is a little thicker under the handguards, with very little extra weight over the Pencil. I consider it one of the best balanced all-around barrels I own. I've also had good experiences with AIM. I wouldn't hesitate buying from them again. |
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Yea, don't seem to be that many WV guys on here but when you consider our population in relativity to the country it makes sense. I'm from Mason county, on the border with Ohio.
And yea that pretty well sums it up, the Gunner has a 1.9" long gas block journal and the Pencil has a 1.1" long gas journal. I believe the A2 FSB's are roughly 1.8-1.9" long so need to have the Gunner to fit one. Not having one is a deal breaker for me as I am not a fan of how they look without the FSB. Not a huge fan of most free float rails either I like simple Magpul MOE stock sets. There are a couple free floats that has grabbed my attention though the biggest one being Apex, which you never hear about even though they have great stuff. Their gator grip handguards look awesome to me and don't look all tacticooled out with rails everywhere. But it gives you the opportunity to put a rail anywhere you need one, for that matter I guess the MOE has an option for rails in certain areas as well. I plan on trying one out when the money permits and perhaps changing some more of my builds out with them since they take the standard milspec barrel nut, and also offer discounts on the more you buy both at the $500 point at 20% off and $1500 at 30% off. One last thing to note on the gas block journal, originally the Faxon Gunner had the shorter gas block journal as well and would not accept the A2 FSB but thankfully they switched them a little over a year ago. I remember thinking I would love to try out some of their barrels if only they would extend the sight base long enough to accept the A2 FSB. So in the future if you find a used one for sale on the EE check to make sure if you plan an A2 FSB. And for the weight difference, I doubt you would notice it that much considering it is very slight and the weight increase is towards the back of the barrel underneath the handguards. I can tell a big difference in the Gunner or any other lightweight barrel vs the standard Gov profile. All that extra weight out front is very noticeable, and when bringing it up a lot of guys will tell you to suck it up and do more push ups but that doesn't really make any sense because the weight is still pointless. May as well work out everyday and add a couple more pounds of weights to your rifle if it makes you feel more macho. To me the Gunner is the perfect barrel for everything except match shooting and long range varmint hunting where you plan on shooting multiple rounds and keeping your barrel hot consistently (even then it'd probably do a decent job). They are as accurate as any standard AR barrel I have ever had or shot and as others have said they don't shift point of impact once they get hot like most other lightweights do. My first AR was a lightweight DPMS carbine and was a great rifle except the barrel would be barely warm and start shifting its impact quite a bit which ended up with me getting rid of it for something else. Almost all lighweight barrels shift a little when they get warm (that is the main advantage of heavier barrels) but Faxon has gotten something right that everyone else isn't and their barrels tend to shoot straight even after getting hot. I would guess that when it comes to non retro builds the Faxon Gunners will make up the majority of what barrel I buy from now on, with the exceptions being the shorter 10.5-12.5 builds. |
| I strongly recommend a 14.5in GUNNER barrel, if you are worried about having to remove the muzzle device after it being pinned and welded Faxon has fixed that issue, they just announced brake and flash hider options that you can purchase already pinned and welded,l. The benefit is their new muzzle devices that they offer pre welded are .620in in diameter so you can still install and remove gas blocks, barrel nuts, etc. |
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The pencil is a little lighter at 1.19lbs vs gunner at 1.29lbs. The 14.5 pencil is 1.09lbs. Just not sure I want to mess with pinning and welding a flash/brake/comp. It is not that the pinning and welding is the problem, but if I need to remove it later for any reason. I have not issues with AIM and they are fairly close to me. Sorry, meant the pencil profile 16". Was looking at the 18 gunner for another build and had that stuck in my head. ETA: Just realized mustang-man beat me to it on the faxon FH/brake options
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PSA yet again seems to be lax on the customer service end of things. No response.
Anyways, I also plan on using a light weight BCG. I understand it is my best interest to use an adjustable gas block. Any suggestions on 0.625 adjustable gas block? I really do not feel like spending the money on a titanium one. Though in a sense counter-intuitive to my build to say that. |
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I have never had to email PSA but doubt their customer service is up there with some of the other better names. With that said I'd bet they sell a lot more then any other AR seller out there and stay busy and have great prices on top of it. If you really need something answered I'd just call them. But if it's about their barrels I'd still say you should go Faxon since I love mine so much. If PSA had their pencil barrels already assembled on an upper with FSB and had a huge sell on them then I'd consider picking one up. But the way it is now I'd rather have $550 in a build with a Faxon barrel over $500 in a build with a PSA freedom barrel.
The other poster above me who said the BA Hanson barrels is something else to check out. I really like BA as well and I have a 11.5" BA barrel that shoots awesome. The reason I never considered Hansons is the same reason I don't consider a lot of barrels, the gas journal length is too short to install a standard A2 FSB. Even then they are 223 Wylde which I'm not a fan of (prefer 5.56), and they weigh a little more then the Faxons but at least the extra weight is put in areas it could benefit from. I just wouldn't bet on them shooting any better then the Faxon Gunners and also not sure if their point of impact stays the same when hot. The Faxons is the only lightweight barrel I've ever seen that doesn't move it's point of impact when hot. Still BA is up there and is still my second choice as they are a great company and have very good prices as well. I may very well own more of their barrels someday if the right deal presents itself or they bring back the 5.45x39 pencil barrels. I can't help with the gas block or lightweight BCG choices but there's lots of good info on here. It seems I remember seeing AIM have a new model of their BCG in lightweight that is cheaper then most others. I could be mistaken though. I know there are quite a few lightweight gas blocks out there as well. I doubt I'd go with a titanium one myself since the steel isn't that much heavier and will do better if it gets really hot. I remember seeing a lot of people make their own adjustable gas block by drilling a hole and tapping it for a set screw that they can adjust. Another part you can save weight on is the flash hider that comes in titanium, I wouldn't mind having one of those myself but there aren't a lot of options. And as I said before I wouldn't buy the Faxon already pinned with their new flash hider as I think they are butt ugly but if you like it that's all that matters, not sure of their weight but knowing Faxon it's probably light. |
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PSA does have one 16" Upper in stock with their pencil barrel. It comes in at 3.3lbs. Just not in the configuration I want for my build.
BLEM PSA 16" MIDLENGTH 5.56 NATO 1:7 PENCIL STAINLESS STEEL FREEDOM UPPER - WITH BCG AND CH - 507528 I will be going with one of the Faxon barrels, just not sure which one yet! As for the lightweight BCG I will either go with the one from AIM when they are in stock or one from dwilsonmfg. I would prefer the AIM one as it does not have the forward assist notches. The difference is 0.7 ounces. Which I will likely never notice. Same with light weight LPK(V7) which came out to a whole 1.38 ounces of weight saved and three times the cost of a standard LPK. So, 0.13 pounds of weight savings lost. Maybe I am just not that into getting lightest as virtually possible as I thought  . I have seen some DIY adjustable gas blocks and may go that route. More than capable of that.
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| +1 for either Faxon or Freedom Pencil barrel. Unless you plan on doing mag dumps, anything more than pencil is wasted weight (let's not forget the original M16 was a pencil barrel). Since I've gone pencil I will NOT be going back to the ridiculous "Gov't profile".... EVER. |
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+1 for either Faxon or Freedom Pencil barrel. Unless you plan on doing mag dumps, anything more than pencil is wasted weight (let's not forget the original M16 was a pencil barrel). Since I've gone pencil I will NOT be going back to the ridiculous "Gov't profile".... EVER. Me too.
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I would also recommend the 16" Gunner from Faxon. If AIM has them in stock, they include the pinned gas block. It's a really good deal. They're also active here as well. The pictures make it seemed like it is not pinned. Is it? If so is it easily removable? I have never had to remove a pinned low profile gas block. I ask because from my understanding when using a light weight BCG an adjustable gas block is needed. So I will have to remove and modify or replace with adjustable. 
What say you @RogueNathan? Also AIM lists the 14.5 pencil as 1.09 and Faxon lists it as 1.15...? Also why do my pictures never show up? |
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The pictures make it seemed like it is not pinned. Is it? If so is it easily removable? I have never had to remove a pinned low profile gas block. I ask because from my understanding when using a light weight BCG an adjustable gas block is needed. So I will have to remove and modify or replace with adjustable. https://4b1e874935ea5d25a97e-f099844d0e354c7ab50c55a966be6870.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product/XFXB145PBGBX.jpg What say you @RogueNathan? Also AIM lists the 14.5 pencil as 1.09 and Faxon lists it as 1.15...? Also why do my pictures never show up? Quoted:
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I would also recommend the 16" Gunner from Faxon. If AIM has them in stock, they include the pinned gas block. It's a really good deal. They're also active here as well. The pictures make it seemed like it is not pinned. Is it? If so is it easily removable? I have never had to remove a pinned low profile gas block. I ask because from my understanding when using a light weight BCG an adjustable gas block is needed. So I will have to remove and modify or replace with adjustable. https://4b1e874935ea5d25a97e-f099844d0e354c7ab50c55a966be6870.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product/XFXB145PBGBX.jpg What say you @RogueNathan? Also AIM lists the 14.5 pencil as 1.09 and Faxon lists it as 1.15...? Also why do my pictures never show up? AIM/Faxon gas blocks/barrels are drilled for pins, but the pin is not drive into seat. After you install the barrel and the gas block and tube, you drive the pin into seat. I use a 18" GUNNER barrel on my 3 gun rifle with a basic Faxon gas block with s JP lightened carrier and light rifle buffer. The Faxon barrels have just about perfectly sized gas port so you really don't need an adjustable gas block. |
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Another vote for the Faxon 16" Pencil profile.. maybe! Just how much shooting are you planning? I am no target shooter, and no high-volume shooter and the pencil does just fine for me.
I wanted to go with the Gunner, but I waited over a month for them to return to stock and finally caved and got the pencil. I am very glad I did; the handling of it is superb, and the rifle always gets compliments about the light front end weight. |
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Another vote for the Faxon 16" Pencil profile.. maybe! Just how much shooting are you planning? I am no target shooter, and no high-volume shooter and the pencil does just fine for me. I wanted to go with the Gunner, but I waited over a month for them to return to stock and finally caved and got the pencil. I am very glad I did; the handling of it is superb, and the rifle always gets compliments about the light front end weight. Sweet. Send photos! |
| Without cluttering the forum with another thread pertaining to my build, when running a lightweight BCG what buffer spring and buffer would be ideal to run? I am using an A2 extension w/ Ace Ultralite Skeleton stock. If no responses I will open elsewhere since it hasn't much to do with the barrel but lightweight build in general. |
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Without cluttering the forum with another thread pertaining to my build, when running a lightweight BCG what buffer spring and buffer would be ideal to run? I am using an A2 extension w/ Ace Ultralite Skeleton stock. If no responses I will open elsewhere since it hasn't much to do with the barrel but lightweight build in general. Standard carbine in both respects. The key for a LW carrier is an adjustable gas block. |
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Standard carbine in both respects. The key for a LW carrier is an adjustable gas block. With rifle receiver extension? You mean standard rifle length spring and 5.2oz buffer or run the carbine length spring/3oz buffer/spacer? Wouldn't the latter work the same and be lighter? |
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