AR Sponsor
Posted: 6/20/2016 3:54:47 PM EDT
| I don't particularly like the Sig arm brace. Supposedly there is another butt stock that is approved and does not reqire a stamp. |
|
Quoted:
I don't particularly like the Sig arm brace. Supposedly there is another butt stock that is approved and does not reqire a stamp. There is no butt stock that is approved that doesn't require a stamp for a SBR. A pistol on the other hand is another matter altogether. |
| If you use the sig brace as a buttstock you are violating law. Either pay the tax and get the stamp or use the brace as it was intended. If you want a different style of brace, there are a few out, including the Shockwave brace and the new adjustable brace (don't remember who makes it though). These though, like the sig brace, are not buttstocks. |
|
OP is probably thinking of the KAK Shockwave Blade...
https://www.kakindustry.com/shockwave/shockwave-package-black |
|
Quoted:
There is no butt stock that is approved that doesn't require a stamp for a SBR. A pistol on the other hand is another matter altogether. Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't particularly like the Sig arm brace. Supposedly there is another butt stock that is approved and does not reqire a stamp. There is no butt stock that is approved that doesn't require a stamp for a SBR. A pistol on the other hand is another matter altogether. Sorry I meant pistol and no disrespect or the Sig Brace. |
OP, this is what you're talking about. KAK Pistol tube with Shockwave Pistol Brace. I highly recommend it. |
|
I understand that words matter, and I hope I'm not going off topic. But these 'braces' sure look like they would be meant or at least provision for 'shouldering'.
I've been considering an AR Pistol build and wanted to know if I can use this: http://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/sabertube-tm-pistol-tube-qd-end-plate-combo combined with this: http://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/bad-lbs-mil-lightweight-butt-stock-for-milspec-receiver-extension and would it be legal? Doesn't seem like it would be any different than the SIG Brace or KAK brace. |
|
Quoted:
I understand that words matter, and I hope I'm not going off topic. But these 'braces' sure look like they would be meant or at least provision for 'shouldering'. I've been considering an AR Pistol build and wanted to know if I can use this: http://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/sabertube-tm-pistol-tube-qd-end-plate-combo combined with this: http://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/bad-lbs-mil-lightweight-butt-stock-for-milspec-receiver-extension and would it be legal? Doesn't seem like it would be any different than the SIG Brace or KAK brace. No that would be illegal without a stamp |
|
Quoted:
OP, this is what you're talking about. KAK Pistol tube with Shockwave Pistol Brace. I highly recommend it. http://www.ar15news.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/KAK-Industry-4th-of-July-Sale.jpg Thanks Why does the ATV consider this to be a pistol? |
|
Quoted: Thanks Why does the ATV consider this to be a pistol? Quoted: Quoted: OP, this is what you're talking about. KAK Pistol tube with Shockwave Pistol Brace. I highly recommend it. http://www.ar15news.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/KAK-Industry-4th-of-July-Sale.jpg Thanks Why does the ATV consider this to be a pistol? |
|
Quoted:
If you use the sig brace as a buttstock you are violating law. Either pay the tax and get the stamp or use the brace as it was intended. If you want a different style of brace, there are a few out, including the Shockwave brace and the new adjustable brace (don't remember who makes it though). These though, like the sig brace, are not buttstocks. Let me get this straight. If I were to shoulder an atf approved brace I'm now in possession of a sbr? Is this fact or opinion? Obviously with it this gray realistically it will all come down to opinion |
|
Quoted: Let me get this straight. If I were to shoulder an atf approved brace I'm now in possession of a sbr? Is this fact or opinion? Obviously with it this gray realistically it will all come down to opinion Quoted: Quoted: If you use the sig brace as a buttstock you are violating law. Either pay the tax and get the stamp or use the brace as it was intended. If you want a different style of brace, there are a few out, including the Shockwave brace and the new adjustable brace (don't remember who makes it though). These though, like the sig brace, are not buttstocks. Let me get this straight. If I were to shoulder an atf approved brace I'm now in possession of a sbr? Is this fact or opinion? Obviously with it this gray realistically it will all come down to opinion There is a poorly written ATF letter that essentially says if you shoulder a braced firearm they consider it construction of a short barreled rifle. It is not consistent with US Law in my opinion. On the other hand, it's their opinion that could have you face prosecution. |
|
Quoted:
If I were to shoulder an atf approved brace I'm now in possession of a sbr? Is this fact or opinion? Obviously with it this gray realistically it will all come down to opinion If you shoulder a brace, you are shouldering a SBR. If you have doubt, take it to your local police station or police range and show them your brace up against your shoulder. There is a lot more than BATF approval on this, there are state and local laws. People seem to forget that. If you are looking to play a technicality, that isn't the way you want to do it. People are taking and placing it against their chest inline with the side of their jaw, so they are not "shouldering" the weapon. That technicality, and the knowledge of how your state laws are worded may be the scam you are looking for. Still, you roll the dice, and the safe way to do things is to pay the $200 for the stamp. Most of us here are going to agree the current laws violate the "shall not be infringed" meaning of the 2nd Amendment, but none of us are going to tell you on a public forum where people are waiting to use our words against us that you should violate the law. |
|
Quoted:
If you shoulder a brace, you are shouldering a SBR. If you have doubt, take it to your local police station or police range and show them your brace up against your shoulder. There is a lot more than BATF approval on this, there are state and local laws. People seem to forget that. If you are looking to play a technicality, that isn't the way you want to do it. People are taking and placing it against their chest inline with the side of their jaw, so they are not "shouldering" the weapon. That technicality, and the knowledge of how your state laws are worded may be the scam you are looking for. Still, you roll the dice, and the safe way to do things is to pay the $200 for the stamp. Most of us here are going to agree the current laws violate the "shall not be infringed" meaning of the 2nd Amendment, but none of us are going to tell you on a public forum where people are waiting to use our words against us that you should violate the law. Quoted:
Quoted:
If I were to shoulder an atf approved brace I'm now in possession of a sbr? Is this fact or opinion? Obviously with it this gray realistically it will all come down to opinion If you shoulder a brace, you are shouldering a SBR. If you have doubt, take it to your local police station or police range and show them your brace up against your shoulder. There is a lot more than BATF approval on this, there are state and local laws. People seem to forget that. If you are looking to play a technicality, that isn't the way you want to do it. People are taking and placing it against their chest inline with the side of their jaw, so they are not "shouldering" the weapon. That technicality, and the knowledge of how your state laws are worded may be the scam you are looking for. Still, you roll the dice, and the safe way to do things is to pay the $200 for the stamp. Most of us here are going to agree the current laws violate the "shall not be infringed" meaning of the 2nd Amendment, but none of us are going to tell you on a public forum where people are waiting to use our words against us that you should violate the law. Agreed. Cue the "don't give in" and "don't obey" guy who for some reason seems to never post a picture or video publicly on the forums or youtube of him 'shouldering' the brace to back up his words. Odd... |
|
Quoted: If you shoulder a brace, you are shouldering a SBR. If you have doubt, take it to your local police station or police range and show them your brace up against your shoulder. There is a lot more than BATF approval on this, there are state and local laws. People seem to forget that. If you are looking to play a technicality, that isn't the way you want to do it. People are taking and placing it against their chest inline with the side of their jaw, so they are not "shouldering" the weapon. That technicality, and the knowledge of how your state laws are worded may be the scam you are looking for. Still, you roll the dice, and the safe way to do things is to pay the $200 for the stamp. Most of us here are going to agree the current laws violate the "shall not be infringed" meaning of the 2nd Amendment, but none of us are going to tell you on a public forum where people are waiting to use our words against us that you should violate the law. Quoted: Quoted: If I were to shoulder an atf approved brace I'm now in possession of a sbr? Is this fact or opinion? Obviously with it this gray realistically it will all come down to opinion If you shoulder a brace, you are shouldering a SBR. If you have doubt, take it to your local police station or police range and show them your brace up against your shoulder. There is a lot more than BATF approval on this, there are state and local laws. People seem to forget that. If you are looking to play a technicality, that isn't the way you want to do it. People are taking and placing it against their chest inline with the side of their jaw, so they are not "shouldering" the weapon. That technicality, and the knowledge of how your state laws are worded may be the scam you are looking for. Still, you roll the dice, and the safe way to do things is to pay the $200 for the stamp. Most of us here are going to agree the current laws violate the "shall not be infringed" meaning of the 2nd Amendment, but none of us are going to tell you on a public forum where people are waiting to use our words against us that you should violate the law. To be fair, the text of the law says a weapon designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder is a rifle. If Sig sells you a factory pistol with a factory sig brace on it, and you put it to your shoulder and shoot it, it does not meet the federal definition of a short barrel rifle. ATF's last letter just doesn't follow the law. I've said from the beginning, the way the law is written, if you built a "pistol" and put a brace on it with the intent to shoulder fire it - you didn't legally build a "pistol", you build a short barreled rifle. What we all have to keep in mind is the fact the courts give seem to give a lot of weight to how the ATF interprets the law. So even though their letter may not match what the law says, a judge may still side with them. To top it off, anyone who is prosecuted will face the financial consequences of that prosecution even if they aren't convicted. For me, I just pay for the stamps and shoot them off my shoulder. |
|
Quoted:
If you shoulder a brace, you are shouldering a SBR. If you have doubt, take it to your local police station or police range and show them your brace up against your shoulder. There is a lot more than BATF approval on this, there are state and local laws. People seem to forget that. If you are looking to play a technicality, that isn't the way you want to do it. People are taking and placing it against their chest inline with the side of their jaw, so they are not "shouldering" the weapon. That technicality, and the knowledge of how your state laws are worded may be the scam you are looking for. Still, you roll the dice, and the safe way to do things is to pay the $200 for the stamp. Most of us here are going to agree the current laws violate the "shall not be infringed" meaning of the 2nd Amendment, but none of us are going to tell you on a public forum where people are waiting to use our words against us that you should violate the law. Quoted:
Quoted:
If I were to shoulder an atf approved brace I'm now in possession of a sbr? Is this fact or opinion? Obviously with it this gray realistically it will all come down to opinion If you shoulder a brace, you are shouldering a SBR. If you have doubt, take it to your local police station or police range and show them your brace up against your shoulder. There is a lot more than BATF approval on this, there are state and local laws. People seem to forget that. If you are looking to play a technicality, that isn't the way you want to do it. People are taking and placing it against their chest inline with the side of their jaw, so they are not "shouldering" the weapon. That technicality, and the knowledge of how your state laws are worded may be the scam you are looking for. Still, you roll the dice, and the safe way to do things is to pay the $200 for the stamp. Most of us here are going to agree the current laws violate the "shall not be infringed" meaning of the 2nd Amendment, but none of us are going to tell you on a public forum where people are waiting to use our words against us that you should violate the law. Got it didn't think of it in those regards. Thanks to both for feedback Eta: kinda crazy the line is that gray. But I guess you can say that from either side |
|
Quoted:
Most of us here are going to agree the current laws violate the "shall not be infringed" meaning of the 2nd Amendment, but none of us are going to tell you on a public forum where people are waiting to use our words against us that you should violate the law. This should be reworked into some kind of oath everyone must take to unlock the words stock, brace, SBR, and pistol on this site. Bravo. |
|
The Thorsden Custom Pistol Cheek Rest is an option.
Seen them at gun shows. Never shouldered it, but did rest a cheek on there, and the cheek weld was pretty decent. Not sure how they feel shooting though. |
AR Sponsor