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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Melonite vs Chrome lined barrels (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/15/2014 2:49:55 PM EDT
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I'm looking for a good reliable barrel and came across the melonite lined barrels. For those who have tried these are they better? As in more accurate, long life, corrosion resistant, and reliable?
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Quoted: I'm looking for a good reliable barrel and came across the melonite lined barrels. For those who have tried these are they better? As in more accurate only as accurate as would have been before treatment. It will take longer to smooth out any inherent imperfections, long life yes, corrosion resistant yes, and reliable depends on your definition of reliable? |
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Chrome is added to the barrel and can be non uniform in thickness.
The Melonite adds no thickness to the steel. Rifling and bore stay the same. That can add in accuracy theoretically. My next will be a Nitride treated barrel. Looking hard at the WMD Middy but can't find any reviews. Dave N |
| Companies that properly salt bath nitride barrels do so before the barrel extensions are installed. The only problems you can encounter are if you take an untreated barrel, after it has had the extension installed, and try to treat it. If you do that, you can experience loosening of the barrel extension. |
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Quoted: As far as reliability goes, I would lean towards chrome lined since some companies that do melonite on barrels have had issues with the barrel extensions coming off. Only time I have seen this in print was when people stated they sent their manufactured barrel off to get aftermarket nitriding done. I have experience with Aeroprecision, Voodoo, and ARP barrels. None of which have any issues from what I have seen. And melonite is not a lining or a coating. The closest definition is a type of case hardening that takes place over the entire surface of the metal. I personally think the melonite QPQ process is the best after doing a lot of reading on the subject. It dips the object twice in the salt bath and allows for it to be fully and deeply hardened. It ends up being hardened to about twice or three times the thickness of a chrome lining when done properly. I really like the ARP barrels and currently evaluating Aero and voodoo barrels. Both of which seem to be good quality and value. I have several ARP barrels and one sample each of Aero and Voodoo. I also have a few FN CHF barrels and only 1 stainless. All with similar reliability, as in no problems with any of them yet. |
| I'm a fan of melonite (or whichever brand) as well. Outstanding durability, corrosion resistance, and easier/lower cost good rifling. What's not to love?! I think CL is good too, but kind of "old school". Even though CL is mil spec, I think you'll find the market gravitating towards melonite. IMHO, it just doesn't make sense to use CL now that there is nitrocarburizing. |
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I'm a fan of melonite (or whichever brand) as well. Outstanding durability, corrosion resistance, and easier/lower cost good rifling. What's not to love?! I think CL is good too, but kind of "old school". Even though CL is mil spec, I think you'll find the market gravitating towards melonite. IMHO, it just doesn't make sense to use CL now that there is nitrocarburizing. This...I am using nitride barrels almost exclusively now. |
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Curious which companies? A properly manufactured nitrided barrel hasn't been any less reliable than a chrome lined in my experience. Only time I have seen this in print was when people stated they sent their manufactured barrel off to get aftermarket nitriding done. Quoted:
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As far as reliability goes, I would lean towards chrome lined since some companies that do melonite on barrels have had issues with the barrel extensions coming off. yep, only seems to happen to people having aftermarket nitriding done to barrels that already have extensions installed... i guess the issue has become like a game of 'chinese whispers.' |
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Quoted: Curious which companies? Quoted: Quoted: As far as reliability goes, I would lean towards chrome lined since some companies that do melonite on barrels have had issues with the barrel extensions coming off. |
| Chrome lining is much more consistent than it used to be. I have a KAC SR-25 EMC that's far more accurate than I...even with its antiquated chrome lined barrel. Not too concerned with getting good accuracy out of a CL barrel. YMMV and all. I wouldn't pay more for watermelonite...and if you do then their marketing is working. |
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Chrome lining is much more consistent than it used to be. I have a KAC SR-25 EMC that's far more accurate than I...even with its antiquated chrome lined barrel. Not too concerned with getting good accuracy out of a CL barrel. YMMV and all. I wouldn't pay more for watermelonite...and if you do then their marketing is working. I'm sorry but it is hard to take anything you said seriously when you say things like that. |
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I recently purchased a Voodoo Innovations barrel. I think it's a product of Adams Arms. Great shooter so far 
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I recently purchased a Voodoo Innovations barrel. I think it's a product of Adams Arms. Great shooter so far
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Which melonite barrels are you guys having good results with? Looking to start a new build using one. Dave N Any issues with the feed ramps lining up? |
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I'm sorry but it is hard to take anything you said seriously when you say things like that. Quoted:
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Chrome lining is much more consistent than it used to be. I have a KAC SR-25 EMC that's far more accurate than I...even with its antiquated chrome lined barrel. Not too concerned with getting good accuracy out of a CL barrel. YMMV and all. I wouldn't pay more for watermelonite...and if you do then their marketing is working. I'm sorry but it is hard to take anything you said seriously when you say things like that. Sense of humor much? Take it how you want...CL works fine... 
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Sense of humor much? Take it how you want...CL works fine... http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/cms81586/Firearms%20and%20Shooting/IMAG0577_zps55ba41c8.jpg Quoted:
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Chrome lining is much more consistent than it used to be. I have a KAC SR-25 EMC that's far more accurate than I...even with its antiquated chrome lined barrel. Not too concerned with getting good accuracy out of a CL barrel. YMMV and all. I wouldn't pay more for watermelonite...and if you do then their marketing is working. I'm sorry but it is hard to take anything you said seriously when you say things like that. Sense of humor much? Take it how you want...CL works fine... http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/cms81586/Firearms%20and%20Shooting/IMAG0577_zps55ba41c8.jpg I understand that chrome lining can work however most chrome lined barrels arent all that accurate. Using Knights or in my case FN to imply that chrome is equal is not exactly a good argument. While I do not have any experience with Knights the FN guns use a totally different process that allows uniformity. The majority of chrome lined barrels are not using that process. Most have no desire to make target barrels so its not like they are failing it just wasnt their top priority. What I was hoping for in a response was a explanation why you dont like melonite/nitride whatever. |
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I understand that chrome lining can work however most chrome lined barrels arent all that accurate. Using Knights or in my case FN to imply that chrome is equal is not exactly a good argument. While I do not have any experience with Knights the FN guns use a totally different process that allows uniformity. The majority of chrome lined barrels are not using that process. Most have no desire to make target barrels so its not like they are failing it just wasnt their top priority. What I was hoping for in a response was a explanation why you dont like melonite/nitride whatever. Quoted:
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Chrome lining is much more consistent than it used to be. I have a KAC SR-25 EMC that's far more accurate than I...even with its antiquated chrome lined barrel. Not too concerned with getting good accuracy out of a CL barrel. YMMV and all. I wouldn't pay more for watermelonite...and if you do then their marketing is working. I'm sorry but it is hard to take anything you said seriously when you say things like that. Sense of humor much? Take it how you want...CL works fine... http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/cms81586/Firearms%20and%20Shooting/IMAG0577_zps55ba41c8.jpg I understand that chrome lining can work however most chrome lined barrels arent all that accurate. Using Knights or in my case FN to imply that chrome is equal is not exactly a good argument. While I do not have any experience with Knights the FN guns use a totally different process that allows uniformity. The majority of chrome lined barrels are not using that process. Most have no desire to make target barrels so its not like they are failing it just wasnt their top priority. What I was hoping for in a response was a explanation why you dont like melonite/nitride whatever. How accurate are you looking for? Yes the KAC is an extreme example. How about a LE6920? I can hold on an IPSC silhouette at 700yds consistently when I toss an optic on the rifle with a bit more magnification than a TA-31F. Seems to do just fine for me. Most ARFCOM members aren't even shooting high enough quality ammo to notice the difference anyhow. Unless you're blasting with 69gr SMK's on top of handloads or FGMM...There isn't going to be much of a difference from a base line chrome lined barrel to a match grade barrel when you're shooting M193 or M855. And if accuracy is your primary concern just pick up something like a WOA or a Noveske stainless steel barrel and go from there. My SBR wears a Noveske 11.5" stainless barrel that's held up fine to thousands of rounds of rapid fire and full auto using one of our post sample lowers with no chrome lining. It's abused far harder than most will push their rifles. My cynicism in "melonite" and nitriding comes from the fact that it's just another case of ARFCOM keeping up with the jonses. Nothing wrong with a quality SS or regular old chrome lined barrel yet on ARFCOM you're not "tier one" unless you have melonite, keymod, etc. If you want accuracy then shoot better ammo out of a quality SS or chrome lined or nitrided or whatever barrel...that's where the money maker is. Again, I'll reiterate that most of ARFCOM won't notice the difference either way. Most aren't shooting past 100yds or so...and if you're running a red dot like most it won't matter anyways. I'm not going to pay extra (over a chrome lined or quality SS barrel) for nitriding because I see no need for it. |
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How accurate are you looking for? Yes the KAC is an extreme example. How about a LE6920? I can hold on an IPSC silhouette at 700yds consistently when I toss an optic on the rifle with a bit more magnification than a TA-31F. Seems to do just fine for me. Most ARFCOM members aren't even shooting high enough quality ammo to notice the difference anyhow. Unless you're blasting with 69gr SMK's on top of handloads or FGMM...There isn't going to be much of a difference from a base line chrome lined barrel to a match grade barrel when you're shooting M193 or M855. And if accuracy is your primary concern just pick up something like a WOA or a Noveske stainless steel barrel and go from there. My SBR wears a Noveske 11.5" stainless barrel that's held up fine to thousands of rounds of rapid fire and full auto using one of our post sample lowers with no chrome lining. It's abused far harder than most will push their rifles. My cynicism in "melonite" and nitriding comes from the fact that it's just another case of ARFCOM keeping up with the jonses. Nothing wrong with a quality SS or regular old chrome lined barrel yet on ARFCOM you're not "tier one" unless you have melonite, keymod, etc. If you want accuracy then shoot better ammo out of a quality SS or chrome lined or nitrided or whatever barrel...that's where the money maker is. Again, I'll reiterate that most of ARFCOM won't notice the difference either way. Most aren't shooting past 100yds or so...and if you're running a red dot like most it won't matter anyways. I'm not going to pay extra (over a chrome lined or quality SS barrel) for nitriding because I see no need for it. Quoted:
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Chrome lining is much more consistent than it used to be. I have a KAC SR-25 EMC that's far more accurate than I...even with its antiquated chrome lined barrel. Not too concerned with getting good accuracy out of a CL barrel. YMMV and all. I wouldn't pay more for watermelonite...and if you do then their marketing is working. I'm sorry but it is hard to take anything you said seriously when you say things like that. Sense of humor much? Take it how you want...CL works fine... http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/cms81586/Firearms%20and%20Shooting/IMAG0577_zps55ba41c8.jpg I understand that chrome lining can work however most chrome lined barrels arent all that accurate. Using Knights or in my case FN to imply that chrome is equal is not exactly a good argument. While I do not have any experience with Knights the FN guns use a totally different process that allows uniformity. The majority of chrome lined barrels are not using that process. Most have no desire to make target barrels so its not like they are failing it just wasnt their top priority. What I was hoping for in a response was a explanation why you dont like melonite/nitride whatever. How accurate are you looking for? Yes the KAC is an extreme example. How about a LE6920? I can hold on an IPSC silhouette at 700yds consistently when I toss an optic on the rifle with a bit more magnification than a TA-31F. Seems to do just fine for me. Most ARFCOM members aren't even shooting high enough quality ammo to notice the difference anyhow. Unless you're blasting with 69gr SMK's on top of handloads or FGMM...There isn't going to be much of a difference from a base line chrome lined barrel to a match grade barrel when you're shooting M193 or M855. And if accuracy is your primary concern just pick up something like a WOA or a Noveske stainless steel barrel and go from there. My SBR wears a Noveske 11.5" stainless barrel that's held up fine to thousands of rounds of rapid fire and full auto using one of our post sample lowers with no chrome lining. It's abused far harder than most will push their rifles. My cynicism in "melonite" and nitriding comes from the fact that it's just another case of ARFCOM keeping up with the jonses. Nothing wrong with a quality SS or regular old chrome lined barrel yet on ARFCOM you're not "tier one" unless you have melonite, keymod, etc. If you want accuracy then shoot better ammo out of a quality SS or chrome lined or nitrided or whatever barrel...that's where the money maker is. Again, I'll reiterate that most of ARFCOM won't notice the difference either way. Most aren't shooting past 100yds or so...and if you're running a red dot like most it won't matter anyways. I'm not going to pay extra (over a chrome lined or quality SS barrel) for nitriding because I see no need for it. I think that 99.9% of guns outshoot their owners. Most people would never wear out a plain jane chromoly barrel yet everyone needs chrome or similar. I think it was Steve of Adco that flat out abused a stainless barrel and it performed great. If we all made do with the bare minimum it would be a boring world. The whole reason I like the nitriding is that I can have a barrel that is as accurate as anything that is still corrosion and wear resistant like chrome. I also like that it can be done after the fact unlike chrome. I know the AR barrels have had some issues but several precision bolt gun shooters have been having great luck so far. |
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I used to be 100% pro-QPQ. However, looking more and more into things, I'm back full circle to preferring chrome. Several reasons:
Barrel extensions can be compromised if not cleaned and re torqued. Hardness...I have seen qpq barrel extensions severely worn by the bolt. I think the qpq process changed the heattreat. barrel extension wear Thermal stresses of the process may or may not cause other issues...This is a 1000 degree process... I had a qpq bcg once. The lugs peened quickly. peened rca bolt lugs I like qpq...but am not sold on this application for it. An m4 barrel or bcg is not a Glock barrel or slide. However...chrome works. Works well. It's proven. Sometimes a proven adequate solution is, to me, worth more than a suspected upgrade without the track record in that specific application. |
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Quoted: I used to be 100% pro-QPQ. However, looking more and more into things, I'm back full circle to preferring chrome. Several reasons: Barrel extensions can be compromised if not cleaned and re torqued. Hardness...I have seen qpq barrel extensions severely worn by the bolt. I think the qpq process changed the heattreat. barrel extension wear Thermal stresses of the process may or may not cause other issues...This is a 1000 degree process... I had a qpq bcg once. The lugs peened quickly. peened rca bolt lugs I like qpq...but am not sold on this application for it. An m4 barrel or bcg is not a Glock barrel or slide. However...chrome works. Works well. It's proven. Sometimes a proven adequate solution is, to me, worth more than a suspected upgrade without the track record in that specific application. With that said, I am a firm believer in hammer forged barrels too. i have read and been told a lot about the hammer forging process work hardening the metal. What I do know is informally I took DD and FN barrels one of each and two melonite barrels. Did some mag dumps. It's not scientific so take it for what you want. But I don't think it was coincidence that the hammer forged barrels maintained groups longer than melonite barrels. That said I think the melonite barrels start with more precision. I kept all round counts and times equal in this nonscientific test and the melonite barrels groups opened up more than a couple inches wider. I am very tempted to buy a DD hammer forged nitrided barrel from their S2W line. LWRC uses hammer forged nitrided barrels. I would love to see more examples available on the market. I think both types of barrels are good and own both. I am still waiting to see where the mystery ends up. Everytime I ask the question I get greeted with partisan smart aleck remarks or "i heard" responses. I have personally had 1 person respond to my question about how many rounds can you get out of a melonite barrel who had round counts of just over 6000. He states his barrel looks great still. Every other response that claims to be higher, sends me back to a cut and pasted response in the 6.8 forums. And that is not in published form, it again is somebody repeating somebody. I believe the melonite qpq process has a lot of potential. Glock has been using the Tennifer version for forever with good results. But 9mm's aren't 5.56's. I would love to hear people post their round counts with nitride or melonite qpq specifically. I only have 3-4k rounds spread over 3 guns. My CL FN hammer forged barrels have been my work horses. Lets hear what you got.
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Have any studies been released comparing chrome lined/chrome chamber barrels to melonite and nitride barrels when shooting corrosive ammunition? Wes Studies? Probably not. LWRC has a fair amount of info on their forum concerning NitroC. It's key property is that it results in a much harder surface and thus should wear "much" longer than CL. I have an LWRC 5.45 (NitroC barrel) which exclusively sees corrosive (7n6) and I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary but I live in AZ (low humidity) where corrosion isn't as much of a problem. |
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I have both CL and melonite barrels. I am wondering where it will end up myself. I argue with your first pic of the barrel extension because it is an aftermarket job. There are known issues with aftermarket meloniting and barrel extensions. The melonite process should be done with both prior to full manufacture of the barrel IE barrel extension and gas port work. With that said, I am a firm believer in hammer forged barrels too. i have read and been told a lot about the hammer forging process work hardening the metal. What I do know is informally I took DD and FN barrels one of each and two melonite barrels. Did some mag dumps. It's not scientific so take it for what you want. But I don't think it was coincidence that the hammer forged barrels maintained groups longer than melonite barrels. That said I think the melonite barrels start with more precision. I kept all round counts and times equal in this nonscientific test and the melonite barrels groups opened up more than a couple inches wider. I am very tempted to buy a DD hammer forged nitrided barrel from their S2W line. LWRC uses hammer forged nitrided barrels. I would love to see more examples available on the market. I think both types of barrels are good and own both. I am still waiting to see where the mystery ends up. Everytime I ask the question I get greeted with partisan smart aleck remarks or "i heard" responses. I have personally had 1 person respond to my question about how many rounds can you get out of a melonite barrel who had round counts of just over 6000. He states his barrel looks great still. Every other response that claims to be higher, sends me back to a cut and pasted response in the 6.8 forums. And that is not in published form, it again is somebody repeating somebody. I believe the melonite qpq process has a lot of potential. Glock has been using the Tennifer version for forever with good results. But 9mm's aren't 5.56's. I would love to hear people post their round counts with nitride or melonite qpq specifically. I only have 3-4k rounds spread over 3 guns. My CL FN hammer forged barrels have been my work horses. Lets hear what you got. Quoted:
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I used to be 100% pro-QPQ. However, looking more and more into things, I'm back full circle to preferring chrome. Several reasons: Barrel extensions can be compromised if not cleaned and re torqued. Hardness...I have seen qpq barrel extensions severely worn by the bolt. I think the qpq process changed the heattreat. barrel extension wear Thermal stresses of the process may or may not cause other issues...This is a 1000 degree process... I had a qpq bcg once. The lugs peened quickly. peened rca bolt lugs I like qpq...but am not sold on this application for it. An m4 barrel or bcg is not a Glock barrel or slide. However...chrome works. Works well. It's proven. Sometimes a proven adequate solution is, to me, worth more than a suspected upgrade without the track record in that specific application. With that said, I am a firm believer in hammer forged barrels too. i have read and been told a lot about the hammer forging process work hardening the metal. What I do know is informally I took DD and FN barrels one of each and two melonite barrels. Did some mag dumps. It's not scientific so take it for what you want. But I don't think it was coincidence that the hammer forged barrels maintained groups longer than melonite barrels. That said I think the melonite barrels start with more precision. I kept all round counts and times equal in this nonscientific test and the melonite barrels groups opened up more than a couple inches wider. I am very tempted to buy a DD hammer forged nitrided barrel from their S2W line. LWRC uses hammer forged nitrided barrels. I would love to see more examples available on the market. I think both types of barrels are good and own both. I am still waiting to see where the mystery ends up. Everytime I ask the question I get greeted with partisan smart aleck remarks or "i heard" responses. I have personally had 1 person respond to my question about how many rounds can you get out of a melonite barrel who had round counts of just over 6000. He states his barrel looks great still. Every other response that claims to be higher, sends me back to a cut and pasted response in the 6.8 forums. And that is not in published form, it again is somebody repeating somebody. I believe the melonite qpq process has a lot of potential. Glock has been using the Tennifer version for forever with good results. But 9mm's aren't 5.56's. I would love to hear people post their round counts with nitride or melonite qpq specifically. I only have 3-4k rounds spread over 3 guns. My CL FN hammer forged barrels have been my work horses. Lets hear what you got. Isn't the Melonite coating on the DD S2W line and exterior only treatment and not interior treatment ? On the DD site it calls "salt bath nitride" the "outside finish" the only description I can see that refers to inside finish is "chrome lined" ...."No" |
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Quoted: Isn't the Melonite coating on the DD S2W line and exterior only treatment and not interior treatment ? On the DD site it calls "salt bath nitride" the "outside finish" the only description I can see that refers to inside finish is "chrome lined" ...."No" Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I used to be 100% pro-QPQ. However, looking more and more into things, I'm back full circle to preferring chrome. Several reasons: Barrel extensions can be compromised if not cleaned and re torqued. Hardness...I have seen qpq barrel extensions severely worn by the bolt. I think the qpq process changed the heattreat. barrel extension wear Thermal stresses of the process may or may not cause other issues...This is a 1000 degree process... I had a qpq bcg once. The lugs peened quickly. peened rca bolt lugs I like qpq...but am not sold on this application for it. An m4 barrel or bcg is not a Glock barrel or slide. However...chrome works. Works well. It's proven. Sometimes a proven adequate solution is, to me, worth more than a suspected upgrade without the track record in that specific application. With that said, I am a firm believer in hammer forged barrels too. i have read and been told a lot about the hammer forging process work hardening the metal. What I do know is informally I took DD and FN barrels one of each and two melonite barrels. Did some mag dumps. It's not scientific so take it for what you want. But I don't think it was coincidence that the hammer forged barrels maintained groups longer than melonite barrels. That said I think the melonite barrels start with more precision. I kept all round counts and times equal in this nonscientific test and the melonite barrels groups opened up more than a couple inches wider. I am very tempted to buy a DD hammer forged nitrided barrel from their S2W line. LWRC uses hammer forged nitrided barrels. I would love to see more examples available on the market. I think both types of barrels are good and own both. I am still waiting to see where the mystery ends up. Everytime I ask the question I get greeted with partisan smart aleck remarks or "i heard" responses. I have personally had 1 person respond to my question about how many rounds can you get out of a melonite barrel who had round counts of just over 6000. He states his barrel looks great still. Every other response that claims to be higher, sends me back to a cut and pasted response in the 6.8 forums. And that is not in published form, it again is somebody repeating somebody. I believe the melonite qpq process has a lot of potential. Glock has been using the Tennifer version for forever with good results. But 9mm's aren't 5.56's. I would love to hear people post their round counts with nitride or melonite qpq specifically. I only have 3-4k rounds spread over 3 guns. My CL FN hammer forged barrels have been my work horses. Lets hear what you got. Isn't the Melonite coating on the DD S2W line and exterior only treatment and not interior treatment ? On the DD site it calls "salt bath nitride" the "outside finish" the only description I can see that refers to inside finish is "chrome lined" ...."No" And while on the subject, Melonite or nitriding is not a coating of any kind, it is more of a case hardening on steroids. There is no layer added the metal is actually changed. Edit: email sent to DD to verify on nitriding. |
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Quoted: ARP, QPQ, hand lapped, air gauged, every one I know of has been a tack driver, regardless of caliber. Quoted: Quoted: Which melonite barrels are you guys having good results with? Looking to start a new build using one. Dave N ARP, QPQ, hand lapped, air gauged, every one I know of has been a tack driver, regardless of caliber. |
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Quoted: Isn't the Melonite coating on the DD S2W line and exterior only treatment and not interior treatment ? On the DD site it calls "salt bath nitride" the "outside finish" the only description I can see that refers to inside finish is "chrome lined" ...."No" Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I used to be 100% pro-QPQ. However, looking more and more into things, I'm back full circle to preferring chrome. Several reasons: Barrel extensions can be compromised if not cleaned and re torqued. Hardness...I have seen qpq barrel extensions severely worn by the bolt. I think the qpq process changed the heattreat. barrel extension wear Thermal stresses of the process may or may not cause other issues...This is a 1000 degree process... I had a qpq bcg once. The lugs peened quickly. peened rca bolt lugs I like qpq...but am not sold on this application for it. An m4 barrel or bcg is not a Glock barrel or slide. However...chrome works. Works well. It's proven. Sometimes a proven adequate solution is, to me, worth more than a suspected upgrade without the track record in that specific application. With that said, I am a firm believer in hammer forged barrels too. i have read and been told a lot about the hammer forging process work hardening the metal. What I do know is informally I took DD and FN barrels one of each and two melonite barrels. Did some mag dumps. It's not scientific so take it for what you want. But I don't think it was coincidence that the hammer forged barrels maintained groups longer than melonite barrels. That said I think the melonite barrels start with more precision. I kept all round counts and times equal in this nonscientific test and the melonite barrels groups opened up more than a couple inches wider. I am very tempted to buy a DD hammer forged nitrided barrel from their S2W line. LWRC uses hammer forged nitrided barrels. I would love to see more examples available on the market. I think both types of barrels are good and own both. I am still waiting to see where the mystery ends up. Everytime I ask the question I get greeted with partisan smart aleck remarks or "i heard" responses. I have personally had 1 person respond to my question about how many rounds can you get out of a melonite barrel who had round counts of just over 6000. He states his barrel looks great still. Every other response that claims to be higher, sends me back to a cut and pasted response in the 6.8 forums. And that is not in published form, it again is somebody repeating somebody. I believe the melonite qpq process has a lot of potential. Glock has been using the Tennifer version for forever with good results. But 9mm's aren't 5.56's. I would love to hear people post their round counts with nitride or melonite qpq specifically. I only have 3-4k rounds spread over 3 guns. My CL FN hammer forged barrels have been my work horses. Lets hear what you got. Isn't the Melonite coating on the DD S2W line and exterior only treatment and not interior treatment ? On the DD site it calls "salt bath nitride" the "outside finish" the only description I can see that refers to inside finish is "chrome lined" ...."No" |
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I have both CL and melonite barrels. I am wondering where it will end up myself. I argue with your first pic of the barrel extension because it is an aftermarket job. There are known issues with aftermarket meloniting and barrel extensions. The melonite process should be done with both prior to full manufacture of the barrel IE barrel extension and gas port work. With that said, I am a firm believer in hammer forged barrels too. i have read and been told a lot about the hammer forging process work hardening the metal. What I do know is informally I took DD and FN barrels one of each and two melonite barrels. Did some mag dumps. It's not scientific so take it for what you want. But I don't think it was coincidence that the hammer forged barrels maintained groups longer than melonite barrels. That said I think the melonite barrels start with more precision. I kept all round counts and times equal in this nonscientific test and the melonite barrels groups opened up more than a couple inches wider. I am very tempted to buy a DD hammer forged nitrided barrel from their S2W line. LWRC uses hammer forged nitrided barrels. I would love to see more examples available on the market. I think both types of barrels are good and own both. I am still waiting to see where the mystery ends up. Everytime I ask the question I get greeted with partisan smart aleck remarks or "i heard" responses. I have personally had 1 person respond to my question about how many rounds can you get out of a melonite barrel who had round counts of just over 6000. He states his barrel looks great still. Every other response that claims to be higher, sends me back to a cut and pasted response in the 6.8 forums. And that is not in published form, it again is somebody repeating somebody. I believe the melonite qpq process has a lot of potential. Glock has been using the Tennifer version for forever with good results. But 9mm's aren't 5.56's. I would love to hear people post their round counts with nitride or melonite qpq specifically. I only have 3-4k rounds spread over 3 guns. My CL FN hammer forged barrels have been my work horses. Lets hear what you got. Quoted:
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I used to be 100% pro-QPQ. However, looking more and more into things, I'm back full circle to preferring chrome. Several reasons: Barrel extensions can be compromised if not cleaned and re torqued. Hardness...I have seen qpq barrel extensions severely worn by the bolt. I think the qpq process changed the heattreat. barrel extension wear Thermal stresses of the process may or may not cause other issues...This is a 1000 degree process... I had a qpq bcg once. The lugs peened quickly. peened rca bolt lugs I like qpq...but am not sold on this application for it. An m4 barrel or bcg is not a Glock barrel or slide. However...chrome works. Works well. It's proven. Sometimes a proven adequate solution is, to me, worth more than a suspected upgrade without the track record in that specific application. With that said, I am a firm believer in hammer forged barrels too. i have read and been told a lot about the hammer forging process work hardening the metal. What I do know is informally I took DD and FN barrels one of each and two melonite barrels. Did some mag dumps. It's not scientific so take it for what you want. But I don't think it was coincidence that the hammer forged barrels maintained groups longer than melonite barrels. That said I think the melonite barrels start with more precision. I kept all round counts and times equal in this nonscientific test and the melonite barrels groups opened up more than a couple inches wider. I am very tempted to buy a DD hammer forged nitrided barrel from their S2W line. LWRC uses hammer forged nitrided barrels. I would love to see more examples available on the market. I think both types of barrels are good and own both. I am still waiting to see where the mystery ends up. Everytime I ask the question I get greeted with partisan smart aleck remarks or "i heard" responses. I have personally had 1 person respond to my question about how many rounds can you get out of a melonite barrel who had round counts of just over 6000. He states his barrel looks great still. Every other response that claims to be higher, sends me back to a cut and pasted response in the 6.8 forums. And that is not in published form, it again is somebody repeating somebody. I believe the melonite qpq process has a lot of potential. Glock has been using the Tennifer version for forever with good results. But 9mm's aren't 5.56's. I would love to hear people post their round counts with nitride or melonite qpq specifically. I only have 3-4k rounds spread over 3 guns. My CL FN hammer forged barrels have been my work horses. Lets hear what you got. the next trend will be titanium alloy barrels, titanium alloy upper receivers, titanium allow BCGs, and solid titanium alloy firing pins, if you don't have your rifles tricked out with these you just ain't cool.I have a BCG from Spikes that is mag inspected and Nickle Boron coated, doesn't operate any better than my BCGS. |
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Quoted: the next trend will be titanium alloy barrels, titanium alloy upper receivers, titanium allow BCGs, and solid titanium alloy firing pins, if you don't have your rifles tricked out with these you just ain't cool.I have a BCG from Spikes that is mag inspected and Nickle Boron coated, doesn't operate any better than my BCGS. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I used to be 100% pro-QPQ. However, looking more and more into things, I'm back full circle to preferring chrome. Several reasons: Barrel extensions can be compromised if not cleaned and re torqued. Hardness...I have seen qpq barrel extensions severely worn by the bolt. I think the qpq process changed the heattreat. barrel extension wear Thermal stresses of the process may or may not cause other issues...This is a 1000 degree process... I had a qpq bcg once. The lugs peened quickly. peened rca bolt lugs I like qpq...but am not sold on this application for it. An m4 barrel or bcg is not a Glock barrel or slide. However...chrome works. Works well. It's proven. Sometimes a proven adequate solution is, to me, worth more than a suspected upgrade without the track record in that specific application. With that said, I am a firm believer in hammer forged barrels too. i have read and been told a lot about the hammer forging process work hardening the metal. What I do know is informally I took DD and FN barrels one of each and two melonite barrels. Did some mag dumps. It's not scientific so take it for what you want. But I don't think it was coincidence that the hammer forged barrels maintained groups longer than melonite barrels. That said I think the melonite barrels start with more precision. I kept all round counts and times equal in this nonscientific test and the melonite barrels groups opened up more than a couple inches wider. I am very tempted to buy a DD hammer forged nitrided barrel from their S2W line. LWRC uses hammer forged nitrided barrels. I would love to see more examples available on the market. I think both types of barrels are good and own both. I am still waiting to see where the mystery ends up. Everytime I ask the question I get greeted with partisan smart aleck remarks or "i heard" responses. I have personally had 1 person respond to my question about how many rounds can you get out of a melonite barrel who had round counts of just over 6000. He states his barrel looks great still. Every other response that claims to be higher, sends me back to a cut and pasted response in the 6.8 forums. And that is not in published form, it again is somebody repeating somebody. I believe the melonite qpq process has a lot of potential. Glock has been using the Tennifer version for forever with good results. But 9mm's aren't 5.56's. I would love to hear people post their round counts with nitride or melonite qpq specifically. I only have 3-4k rounds spread over 3 guns. My CL FN hammer forged barrels have been my work horses. Lets hear what you got. the next trend will be titanium alloy barrels, titanium alloy upper receivers, titanium allow BCGs, and solid titanium alloy firing pins, if you don't have your rifles tricked out with these you just ain't cool.I have a BCG from Spikes that is mag inspected and Nickle Boron coated, doesn't operate any better than my BCGS. |
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Based on Glock barrels lasting what seems like forever and a host of other pistols now. I think there is something to it. I will hold out on annointing it til I see pictures of a 20 or 30,000 round barrel that is still performing. I havent seen this first hand yet. Pistol barrels last damn near forever anyway. A lot of the IPSC guys I shoot with have guns they put north of 30K rounds a year through and the barrels last several years. Had a friend with one go bad at 50K and it was deemed a lemon. No comparison to high pressure rifles. There were a couple threads on other forums were people were experiencing a little better throat life but it is not widespread yet. Be pretty cool to have a 243 that has 260 or even better 308 barrel life. |
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I think you have a valid concern. I personally have seen melonite improve and ruin parts. There isnt any information made available to the public so as a consumer you are forced to swallow melonite without any logical argument made.
A mfg says we took barrels to 45000 rds or whatever and without seeing a target the bullets could be sideways at 50 yds and consumers would never know. Melonite in batches is probably a lot cheaper than chrome. |
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Quoted: I think you have a valid concern. I personally have seen melonite improve and ruin parts. There isnt any information made available to the public so as a consumer you are forced to swallow melonite without any logical argument made. A mfg says we took barrels to 45000 rds or whatever and without seeing a target the bullets could be sideways at 50 yds and consumers would never know. Melonite in batches is probably a lot cheaper than chrome. |
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Quoted: The army did a study and decided to stick with chrome. |
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I "hear" meloniting a barrel is cheaper than chroming it. I don't know. At some you gotta figure in hazmat disposal costs. I have know idea what that costs or how many uses you get out of a vat of product. I have a few melonite barrels. I want them to be as good as the hype. I think they could be. I know for a fact it remains an across the board unknown in AR barrels. I know this because I can't find anything that has the pictures, the numbers, etc in one packaged study. You would expect something would be out soon as they have become more common. I am happy with the 3 rifle barrels I own, but it will be a long time before I get 30k on one barrel. Don't take me as being antinitriding. Just take me as can't wait to see some real industry studies on it. Quoted:
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I think you have a valid concern. I personally have seen melonite improve and ruin parts. There isnt any information made available to the public so as a consumer you are forced to swallow melonite without any logical argument made. A mfg says we took barrels to 45000 rds or whatever and without seeing a target the bullets could be sideways at 50 yds and consumers would never know. Melonite in batches is probably a lot cheaper than chrome. I imagine its cheaper on several fronts. The fact that the process can be done to a standard barrel vs one that was drilled oversize in anticipation for chrome could be a pretty big deal. Company could order 5,000 barrels and only get 1,000 treated. |
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Yes that study was a long time ago in the 60's I believe. I have read the study. It does not take into account the newer practices and technologies. And for what they had it was a push as far as I could see. Probably stuck with what they had spec'd for price and convenience. Quoted:
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The army did a study and decided to stick with chrome. There was one done 6 or so years back synopsis was no advantage over chrome exists. It was a study of environmental friendly tech options and ni bor and melonite were included. |
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Quoted:
I imagine its cheaper on several fronts. The fact that the process can be done to a standard barrel vs one that was drilled oversize in anticipation for chrome could be a pretty big deal. Company could order 5,000 barrels and only get 1,000 treated. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think you have a valid concern. I personally have seen melonite improve and ruin parts. There isnt any information made available to the public so as a consumer you are forced to swallow melonite without any logical argument made. A mfg says we took barrels to 45000 rds or whatever and without seeing a target the bullets could be sideways at 50 yds and consumers would never know. Melonite in batches is probably a lot cheaper than chrome. I imagine its cheaper on several fronts. The fact that the process can be done to a standard barrel vs one that was drilled oversize in anticipation for chrome could be a pretty big deal. Company could order 5,000 barrels and only get 1,000 treated. Or that you can dip 250 @ a time. Chrome probably is applied one bore at a time. |
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Quoted: There was one done 6 or so years back synopsis was no advantage over chrome exists. It was a study of environmental friendly tech options and ni bor and melonite were included. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The army did a study and decided to stick with chrome. There was one done 6 or so years back synopsis was no advantage over chrome exists. It was a study of environmental friendly tech options and ni bor and melonite were included. I will use google but please link it if possible.
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Melonite vs Chrome lined barrels (Page 1 of 2)
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