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Posted: 3/8/2014 9:37:30 PM EDT
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What's the consensus around here on the A5?
I just put one on a lower today, haven't had a chance to try it out. |
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An ar during recoil has X amount of force/energy. You can slow down or change the impulse characteristics, but it's still going to be the same total amount of energy.
The A5 isn't magic. It presets the rifle spring a bit more then you'd get in a rifle extension so it acts different. The big fans of it, I suspect, are biased due to spending the money. |
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an A5 tube is $47, that's 20 more than a standard mil spec tube, buffers are about equal in price compared to an H or H2. nobody really needs to make up any benefits of a rifle length action spring to justify spending an extra 20 or 40. there are real reliability advantages of a rifle length action spring when it comes to function on an AR. side effect of it are also a softer felt recoil impulse. an there is a very noticeable difference on some configurations, try them side by side and you'll feel.
you can run any mil spec carbine stock on an A5, you don't need to buy a Vltor stock. |
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I rolled my eyes at the idea until I used a friends 6920 w/ an A5+LMT enhanced set-up. Noticeable difference over my stock 6920. His gun as modified shot smoother and quicker-on-target than I could with my as shipped 6920. I preferred his gun over mine. Soon I was running the same setup. And am pleased with it. Well worth the money.
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Quoted:
an A5 tube is $47, that's 20 more than a standard mil spec tube, buffers are about equal in price compared to an H or H2. nobody really needs to make up any benefits of a rifle length action spring to justify spending an extra 20 or 40. there are real reliability advantages of a rifle length action spring when it comes to function on an AR. side effect of it are also a softer felt recoil impulse. an there is a very noticeable difference on some configurations, try them side by side and you'll feel. you can run any mil spec carbine stock on an A5, you don't need to buy a Vltor stock. I call bs. You have constant force, and it moves a set amount how is a spring going to affect how reliably it does this? Rifle length gas system? Sure. A spring? Actually effecting reliability directly? No. |
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I call bs. You have constant force, and it moves a set amount how is a spring going to affect how reliably it does this? Rifle length gas system? Sure. A spring? Actually effecting reliability directly? No. Quoted:
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an A5 tube is $47, that's 20 more than a standard mil spec tube, buffers are about equal in price compared to an H or H2. nobody really needs to make up any benefits of a rifle length action spring to justify spending an extra 20 or 40. there are real reliability advantages of a rifle length action spring when it comes to function on an AR. side effect of it are also a softer felt recoil impulse. an there is a very noticeable difference on some configurations, try them side by side and you'll feel. you can run any mil spec carbine stock on an A5, you don't need to buy a Vltor stock. I call bs. You have constant force, and it moves a set amount how is a spring going to affect how reliably it does this? Rifle length gas system? Sure. A spring? Actually effecting reliability directly? No. well you're the first I've heard make this claim. care to share with us how a shorter stiffer spring would be more reliable? or how a faster cyclic rate would be a more reliable feature? or how decrease dwell time enhances reliability? think you might want to read up a little more on the differences between the two before you call BS |
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well you're the first I've heard make this claim. care to share with us how a shorter stiffer spring would be more reliable? or how a faster cyclic rate would be a more reliable feature? or how decrease dwell time enhances reliability? think you might want to read up a little more on the differences between the two before you call BS Quoted:
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an A5 tube is $47, that's 20 more than a standard mil spec tube, buffers are about equal in price compared to an H or H2. nobody really needs to make up any benefits of a rifle length action spring to justify spending an extra 20 or 40. there are real reliability advantages of a rifle length action spring when it comes to function on an AR. side effect of it are also a softer felt recoil impulse. an there is a very noticeable difference on some configurations, try them side by side and you'll feel. you can run any mil spec carbine stock on an A5, you don't need to buy a Vltor stock. I call bs. You have constant force, and it moves a set amount how is a spring going to affect how reliably it does this? Rifle length gas system? Sure. A spring? Actually effecting reliability directly? No. well you're the first I've heard make this claim. care to share with us how a shorter stiffer spring would be more reliable? or how a faster cyclic rate would be a more reliable feature? or how decrease dwell time enhances reliability? think you might want to read up a little more on the differences between the two before you call BS I'm talking just springs. Not gas port, or gas system length. The reliability of rifle gas systems is not In question. They are superior. And it has jack shit to do with its spring. Buffer, yes. Gas port size and location, yes. Spring alone? No. Replacing a recoil system in a unreliable carbine with a 3.8 oz a5 buffer and rifle spring will get you an unreliable carbine with an expensive recoils system. I'd love to know how a recoil spring is going to effect dwell time. Enlighten me. You have two rifles all things identical, gas port dia. Gas system length. Ammo same. Same total weight of buffer, and the only difference is one is a standard carbine and the other uses the A5. Your gonna get identical reliability. Buffer weight plays a lot larger roll in delaying BCG movement then springs, even then a stiffer carbine spring would win. So you have no reliability upticks there. Once the bolt is moving it just does its thing, moving faster or slower backwards isn't going to change a thing as long as the other separate systems do their job. So no reliability up ticks there. They both hit the end of travel and stop, and start moving forward. The carbine does this slightly faster. And seeing as how the m231 firing at 1200rpm doesn't seem to care about feeding speed I'd say that doesn't matter. Heck if anything it could be said the faster BCG might hammer in a round a bit better the a lower rate rifle spring. Every single malfunction I've ever seen happens because of something unrelated to weather a rifle spring or carbine spring would have fixed it. So tell me how a reduced power carbine spring with similar spring rates to a rifle spring and a heavy buffer would be so different? Look I'm not saying the A5 doesn't change recoil impulse, some guns better, some no change. And I'm saying regardless of perceptions this change is small. Is also bet most people that buy an A5 go up in buffer weight. I'm saying reliability of just the spring part of the system? It does jack shit. Like i said, most get the A5 with a heavier buffer, that alone will do way more then a spring. So in the end, keep your carbine tube and get a heavy buffer and you'll get 99% the same function. |
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[div style='text-align: center;'] I'm talking just springs. Not gas port, or gas system length. The reliability of rifle gas systems is not In question. They are superior. And it has jack shit to do with its spring. Buffer, yes. Gas port size and location, yes. Spring alone? No. Replacing a recoil system in a unreliable carbine with a 3.8 oz a5 buffer and rifle spring will get you an unreliable carbine with an expensive recoils system. I'd love to know how a recoil spring is going to effect dwell time. Enlighten me. You have two rifles all things identical, gas port dia. Gas system length. Ammo same. Same total weight of buffer, and the only difference is one is a standard carbine and the other uses the A5. Your gonna get identical reliability. Buffer weight plays a lot larger roll in delaying BCG movement then springs, even then a stiffer carbine spring would win. So you have no reliability upticks there. Once the bolt is moving it just does its thing, moving faster or slower backwards isn't going to change a thing as long as the other separate systems do their job. So no reliability up ticks there. They both hit the end of travel and stop, and start moving forward. The carbine does this slightly faster. And seeing as how the m231 firing at 1200rpm doesn't seem to care about feeding speed I'd say that doesn't matter. Heck if anything it could be said the faster BCG might hammer in a round a bit better the a lower rate rifle spring. Every single malfunction I've ever seen happens because of something unrelated to weather a rifle spring or carbine spring would have fixed it. So tell me how a reduced power carbine spring with similar spring rates to a rifle spring and a heavy buffer would be so different? Look I'm not saying the A5 doesn't change recoil impulse, some guns better, some no change. And I'm saying regardless of perceptions this change is small. Is also bet most people that buy an A5 go up in buffer weight. I'm saying reliability of just the spring part of the system? It does jack shit. Like i said, most get the A5 with a heavier buffer, that alone will do way more then a spring. So in the end, keep your carbine tube and get a heavy buffer and you'll get 99% the same function. Quoted:
[div style='text-align: center;'] Quoted:
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an A5 tube is $47, that's 20 more than a standard mil spec tube, buffers are about equal in price compared to an H or H2. nobody really needs to make up any benefits of a rifle length action spring to justify spending an extra 20 or 40. there are real reliability advantages of a rifle length action spring when it comes to function on an AR. side effect of it are also a softer felt recoil impulse. an there is a very noticeable difference on some configurations, try them side by side and you'll feel. you can run any mil spec carbine stock on an A5, you don't need to buy a Vltor stock. I call bs. You have constant force, and it moves a set amount how is a spring going to affect how reliably it does this? Rifle length gas system? Sure. A spring? Actually effecting reliability directly? No. well you're the first I've heard make this claim. care to share with us how a shorter stiffer spring would be more reliable? or how a faster cyclic rate would be a more reliable feature? or how decrease dwell time enhances reliability? think you might want to read up a little more on the differences between the two before you call BS I'm talking just springs. Not gas port, or gas system length. The reliability of rifle gas systems is not In question. They are superior. And it has jack shit to do with its spring. Buffer, yes. Gas port size and location, yes. Spring alone? No. Replacing a recoil system in a unreliable carbine with a 3.8 oz a5 buffer and rifle spring will get you an unreliable carbine with an expensive recoils system. I'd love to know how a recoil spring is going to effect dwell time. Enlighten me. You have two rifles all things identical, gas port dia. Gas system length. Ammo same. Same total weight of buffer, and the only difference is one is a standard carbine and the other uses the A5. Your gonna get identical reliability. Buffer weight plays a lot larger roll in delaying BCG movement then springs, even then a stiffer carbine spring would win. So you have no reliability upticks there. Once the bolt is moving it just does its thing, moving faster or slower backwards isn't going to change a thing as long as the other separate systems do their job. So no reliability up ticks there. They both hit the end of travel and stop, and start moving forward. The carbine does this slightly faster. And seeing as how the m231 firing at 1200rpm doesn't seem to care about feeding speed I'd say that doesn't matter. Heck if anything it could be said the faster BCG might hammer in a round a bit better the a lower rate rifle spring. Every single malfunction I've ever seen happens because of something unrelated to weather a rifle spring or carbine spring would have fixed it. So tell me how a reduced power carbine spring with similar spring rates to a rifle spring and a heavy buffer would be so different? Look I'm not saying the A5 doesn't change recoil impulse, some guns better, some no change. And I'm saying regardless of perceptions this change is small. Is also bet most people that buy an A5 go up in buffer weight. I'm saying reliability of just the spring part of the system? It does jack shit. Like i said, most get the A5 with a heavier buffer, that alone will do way more then a spring. So in the end, keep your carbine tube and get a heavy buffer and you'll get 99% the same function. have you done this experiment or are you just making this up? I guerentee you I can easily bust this made up claim, care to make a wager? Do you understand the H, H2 and H3 buffers was introduced to help slow the cyclic rate and help reliability in the M4, the rifle buffer system does this, also, another bit of info for you, a rifle spring provides consistency that the carbine spring does not. It's been proven the more coils that a spring has, the more consistent the spring rate upon each compression. |
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have you done this experiment or are you just making this up? I guerentee you I can easily bust this made up claim, care to make a wager? Do you understand the H, H2 and H3 buffers was introduced to help slow the cyclic rate and help reliability in the M4, the rifle buffer system does this, also, another bit of info for you, a rifle spring provides consistency that the carbine spring does not. It's been proven the more coils that a spring has, the more consistent the spring rate upon each compression. Quoted:
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I'm talking just springs. Not gas port, or gas system length. The reliability of rifle gas systems is not In question. They are superior. And it has jack shit to do with its spring. Buffer, yes. Gas port size and location, yes. Spring alone? No. Replacing a recoil system in a unreliable carbine with a 3.8 oz a5 buffer and rifle spring will get you an unreliable carbine with an expensive recoils system. I'd love to know how a recoil spring is going to effect dwell time. Enlighten me. You have two rifles all things identical, gas port dia. Gas system length. Ammo same. Same total weight of buffer, and the only difference is one is a standard carbine and the other uses the A5. Your gonna get identical reliability. Buffer weight plays a lot larger roll in delaying BCG movement then springs, even then a stiffer carbine spring would win. So you have no reliability upticks there. Once the bolt is moving it just does its thing, moving faster or slower backwards isn't going to change a thing as long as the other separate systems do their job. So no reliability up ticks there. They both hit the end of travel and stop, and start moving forward. The carbine does this slightly faster. And seeing as how the m231 firing at 1200rpm doesn't seem to care about feeding speed I'd say that doesn't matter. Heck if anything it could be said the faster BCG might hammer in a round a bit better the a lower rate rifle spring. Every single malfunction I've ever seen happens because of something unrelated to weather a rifle spring or carbine spring would have fixed it. So tell me how a reduced power carbine spring with similar spring rates to a rifle spring and a heavy buffer would be so different? Look I'm not saying the A5 doesn't change recoil impulse, some guns better, some no change. And I'm saying regardless of perceptions this change is small. Is also bet most people that buy an A5 go up in buffer weight. I'm saying reliability of just the spring part of the system? It does jack shit. Like i said, most get the A5 with a heavier buffer, that alone will do way more then a spring. So in the end, keep your carbine tube and get a heavy buffer and you'll get 99% the same function. have you done this experiment or are you just making this up? I guerentee you I can easily bust this made up claim, care to make a wager? Do you understand the H, H2 and H3 buffers was introduced to help slow the cyclic rate and help reliability in the M4, the rifle buffer system does this, also, another bit of info for you, a rifle spring provides consistency that the carbine spring does not. It's been proven the more coils that a spring has, the more consistent the spring rate upon each compression. I've handled and shot almost every different iteration of the ar15. including two different rifles with the A5. have i done an experiment? no. you realize im just picking out your statement that the rifle spring has a reliability uptick over the carbine spring. saying nothing of buffer weights and gas system? see the blue shit. cyclic rate is the end function of going to a heavier buffer. its not the reason for enhanced reliability. it is a slower unlocking time. if you got a lower cyclic rate and the same speed of unlocking. you'd gain nothing. its why pistol systems are so hard on parts even if they jam a 9mm buffer in the backside. AND. the A5 buffer holds nothing over a carbine buffer. a 5.2oz A5 buffer isnt any better then a carbine buffer that weighs 5.2oz. again you fail to realize that im speaking only to the fact that a rifle spring is a very small part of what makes a rifle system better. and thanks, i know how springs work, those extra 4 coils really do wonders. a guy buys the A5 kit and usually goes one or two oz higher in weight then what he has stock, that's why he sees a difference. its not going to be anymore reliable if he keeps the same weight buffer and essentially just changes out to a rifle recoil spring. might it feel different? maybe but the gun still has the same gas system and buffer weight, the two biggest factors in gun reliability. |
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