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Posted: 6/4/2013 7:53:28 PM EDT
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I don't know how many threads are out there on these...but I do know I have 3 sets and really like them... So I thought I would share my most recent vid on them... SASS  |
| Call me old fashion but I dont really see the point. In my years in the military (infantry) and putting tens of thousands of rounds down range rapid firing/burst etc. I have NEVER seen a pin walk itself out. If the FCG is installed properly with the hammer springs laid in the notches of the pins they should NEVER move. If you dont know how to assemble a lower then maybe you need them but a properly assembled lower should have no issues. Periodic checks and maintainence of your rifle should show any wear that is beyone serviceable and that is when you swap in new parts BEFORE they fail not after. Seems like a solution to a nonexistant problem. |
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Call me old fashion but I dont really see the point. In my years in the military (infantry) and putting tens of thousands of rounds down range rapid firing/burst etc. I have NEVER seen a pin walk itself out. If the FCG is installed properly with the hammer springs laid in the notches of the pins they should NEVER move. If you dont know how to assemble a lower then maybe you need them but a properly assembled lower should have no issues. Periodic checks and maintainence of your rifle should show any wear that is beyone serviceable and that is when you swap in new parts BEFORE they fail not after. Seems like a solution to a nonexistant problem. This^^^^^^. I've owned ARs since the 1980s and have never seen any reason to use those pins. I have a couple of ARs with over ten thousand rounds fired through them and the pins haven't come out unless I take them out. The holes aren't wallowed out either. |
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Call me old fashion but I dont really see the point. In my years in the military (infantry) and putting tens of thousands of rounds down range rapid firing/burst etc. I have NEVER seen a pin walk itself out. If the FCG is installed properly with the hammer springs laid in the notches of the pins they should NEVER move. If you dont know how to assemble a lower then maybe you need them but a properly assembled lower should have no issues. Periodic checks and maintainence of your rifle should show any wear that is beyone serviceable and that is when you swap in new parts BEFORE they fail not after. Seems like a solution to a nonexistant problem. This^^^^^^. I've owned ARs since the 1980s and have never seen any reason to use those pins. I have a couple of ARs with over ten thousand rounds fired through them and the pins haven't come out unless I take them out. The holes aren't wallowed out either. As I posted above, blowback pistol-cal ARs are harder on the FCG and have been known to break hammer pins. Using KNS pins prevents this. |
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bjohnson425, RMS556 I can see both of you gentleman's point...As I was in the military as well, our weapons were checked in and out when we used them and well maintained...never seen it either.. But being the difference between True Mil-spec on the what is out there...NOT HASHING ANY RIFLE OR MANUFACTURER, things do happen...I have personally seen it on the weapon in the vid...and also some of the "Top" manufacturers do install them on their rifles out of the factory.... Not hashing on YOU or anyone else for their Opinion of things...Just offering up an "Preventive" measure to those who wish it...as I do my Self.... It is like the Truck owners....I have never had a problem with my Old Truck in 30 years...but others have...See my Point... My thanks for your Input Gentlemen...... Target On... SASS |
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I've not had a car accident in 28 years. Maybe I should save my money and cancel my insurance. 
Dave N Well if it weren't for car insurance being required by law, then yes, you should have cancelled your insurance a long time ago. Financially, it's been a waste. KNS pins are relatively cheap, but so are lowers. And since there are very few, if any, examples of standard pins destroying a lower over time, the KNS pins hardly seem like an upgrade. But if they make you feel good, it's your money, spend it how you like. I wouldn't say they are necessary, but they aren't going to hurt anything either. |
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Really you Guys...Just because you don't believe in them or have no use for them, or your "Trigger Manufacture" recommends not using them, is that really a Reason to Hash on the Product...I posted it to help those who may "want the Added Security" in maintaining their ARs... Have we gotten so Callused that we can not see the Options for others....The Freedom of Speech and to have your Own Opinion is what this Country is based on...but really...Can we just be Adult about it...Like..Sorry I have no use for them...nor will I ever...would Suffice. Just a Note...KNS really liked the vid...and that is what matters to me beyond Helping People with Options.... SASS |
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Really you Guys...Just because you don't believe in them or have no use for them, or your "Trigger Manufacture" recommends not using them, is that really a Reason to Hash on the Product...I posted it to help those who may "want the Added Security" in maintaining their ARs... Have we gotten so Callused that we can not see the Options for others....The Freedom of Speech and to have your Own Opinion is what this Country is based on...but really...Can we just be Adult about it...Like..Sorry I have no use for them...nor will I ever...would Suffice. Just a Note...KNS really liked the vid...and that is what matters to me beyond Helping People with Options.... SASS I don't think anybody here is saying not to put them on your rifles if you want to, what we are saying is that they serve no functional purpose (most of the time). If you have a $15,000 receiver that you're putting thousands of rounds a month through, then by all means use them; if you've got a $200 receiver that has seen a total of a thousand rounds, then they are a waste of money. The only possible exception would be if you have a FCG in there that doesn't capture the pins in a traditional manner (like Timney), in which case I could see an argument for using the KNS pins. Trying to argue that the KNS pins somehow add functionality is specious; they are a cosmetic feature that looks cool and possibly adds bragging rights around the gun counter. If that's your thing, then go for it, but don't expect people who arn't coolaid drinkers to buy into the hype. |
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Quoted: I appreciate your view but to be correct...Quoted: Really you Guys...Just because you don't believe in them or have no use for them, or your "Trigger Manufacture" recommends not using them, is that really a Reason to Hash on the Product...I posted it to help those who may "want the Added Security" in maintaining their ARs... Have we gotten so Callused that we can not see the Options for others....The Freedom of Speech and to have your Own Opinion is what this Country is based on...but really...Can we just be Adult about it...Like..Sorry I have no use for them...nor will I ever...would Suffice. Just a Note...KNS really liked the vid...and that is what matters to me beyond Helping People with Options.... SASS I don't think anybody here is saying not to put them on your rifles if you want to, what we are saying is that they serve no functional purpose (most of the time). If you have a $15,000 receiver that you're putting thousands of rounds a month through, then by all means use them; if you've got a $200 receiver that has seen a total of a thousand rounds, then they are a waste of money. The only possible exception would be if you have a FCG in there that doesn't capture the pins in a traditional manner (like Timney), in which case I could see an argument for using the KNS pins. Trying to argue that the KNS pins somehow add functionality is specious; they are a cosmetic feature that looks cool and possibly adds bragging rights around the gun counter. If that's your thing, then go for it, but don't expect people who arn't coolaid drinkers to buy into the hype. Red,,,They do not "Add" To the functionality of the Weapon or was ever Implied...They merely help "Secure" things in place...No enhancement implied... Blue,,,Not entirely True...Being, on the AR in the vid...doing Mag Dumps...I have seen the Pins Start to walk out...to the point I had to push them back in...Not by much but still....My "Personal Reason" for installing the Pins.... Again I am not Trying to Argue the Point of ...Needed or Not Needed...Merely giving the Public an Option for a "Secure" system that will guard against the Possibility of "Murphy's Law" taking effect.... As the Saying goes..."To Each Their Own"...... That is my Main Point.....this Thread is Merely a Suggestion..."Not a Must Have".... As for Bragging Rights....Who Needs them or Cares...IMHO... SASS |
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I appreciate your view but to be correct...
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Really you Guys...Just because you don't believe in them or have no use for them, or your "Trigger Manufacture" recommends not using them, is that really a Reason to Hash on the Product...I posted it to help those who may "want the Added Security" in maintaining their ARs... Have we gotten so Callused that we can not see the Options for others....The Freedom of Speech and to have your Own Opinion is what this Country is based on...but really...Can we just be Adult about it...Like..Sorry I have no use for them...nor will I ever...would Suffice. Just a Note...KNS really liked the vid...and that is what matters to me beyond Helping People with Options.... SASS I don't think anybody here is saying not to put them on your rifles if you want to, what we are saying is that they serve no functional purpose (most of the time). If you have a $15,000 receiver that you're putting thousands of rounds a month through, then by all means use them; if you've got a $200 receiver that has seen a total of a thousand rounds, then they are a waste of money. The only possible exception would be if you have a FCG in there that doesn't capture the pins in a traditional manner (like Timney), in which case I could see an argument for using the KNS pins. Trying to argue that the KNS pins somehow add functionality is specious; they are a cosmetic feature that looks cool and possibly adds bragging rights around the gun counter. If that's your thing, then go for it, but don't expect people who arn't coolaid drinkers to buy into the hype. Red,,,They do not "Add" To the functionality of the Weapon or was ever Implied...They merely help "Secure" things in place...No enhancement implied... Blue,,,Not entirely True...Being, on the AR in the vid...doing Mag Dumps...I have seen the Pins Start to walk out...to the point I had to push them back in...Not by much but still....My "Personal Reason" for installing the Pins....
Again I am not Trying to Argue the Point of ...Needed or Not Needed...Merely giving the Public an Option for a "Secure" system that will guard against the Possibility of "Murphy's Law" taking effect.... As the Saying goes..."To Each Their Own"...... That is my Main Point.....this Thread is Merely a Suggestion..."Not a Must Have".... As for Bragging Rights....Who Needs them or Cares...IMHO... SASS If your pins are walking out, then your gun was assembled incorrectly (or there's something broken inside the gun). Those of us who are arguing against the need for KNS pins would resolve this issue by going back and reassembling the gun correctly. If you want to resolve the issue by installing a device that serves no practical purpose, then that is your prerogative. |
| My whole deal against the KNS stuff(besides the fact Geissele doesn't recommend them, and the fact that if your pins walk out something is either broken or not put together correctly) is the fact that if you need to swap springs or parts it slows you down that much more. |
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My lowers have a tax stamp and most see blow back upper use. Blow back is harder on hammer pins and the KNS have shown me to be stronger. And I have had pins, and hammers for that matter, break. I could care less if you don't use them. I like them. 
Dave N KNS pins break too. It doesn't bother me if someone wants to throw good money away on something that's not needed. Hell i wished i would have invented those pins. If I did i still wouldn't use them. Oh and BTW, if you could care less that means you care. What you wanted to say was i couldn't care less. |
I am planning to use a set in a .22LR build...plus I sightly screwed up one of the trigger pin holes, and with the KNS pins in the other three holes the FCG should work just fine for a 22lr. The hole is only .156" or so big now, but still bigger than the .154 spec. 
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Quoted: I am planning to use a set in a .22LR build...plus I sightly screwed up one of the trigger pin holes, and with the KNS pins in the other three holes the FCG should work just fine for a 22lr. The hole is only .156" or so big now, but still bigger than the .154 spec. Depending on what set you get...Look at the .1555 They should work.... SASS |
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Given the Arguments Against as to "Do they Serve a Purpose" or "Are Needed"...that all comes down to the Individual's own sense of what is needed. To those who feel they are not needed, that is your Choice, to those of us that feel it is a "Enhancement" to the "Security of Maintaining the Functionality of Our Weapons" that is Our Choice... It all comes down to "Personal Preference"...there is "Mil-Spec" and then Beyond the Term.... For those who want to Ensure More....KNS gives you that Option....For the Rest...It IS Your Choice... That is the Beauty of America...Choice. SASS |
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Because you can remove the J Spring from the hammer, we have found a quicker hammer speed as a result, allowing us to just lighter springs without soft hits.
You can really tell the difference in the reaction of the hammer when pulling the trigger with and without the J springs, which drags on the pin. |
| If these pins are a waste of money and Time = money, then even reading and posting about these pins is a waste of money. People love to customize their sh*t. Let them have fun. And let's keep one thing in mind, every dollar spent in this industry helps our 2A battle. So add your pins and all the aftermarket cr#p that you want. |
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My lowers have a tax stamp and most see blow back upper use. Blow back is harder on hammer pins and the KNS have shown me to be stronger. And I have had pins, and hammers for that matter, break. I could care less if you don't use them. I like them.
Dave N I like them MUCH better,,, 
After the G.I. hammer pin walked out on my Reg. Sendra 
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Just something to think about, and why I don't use KNS pins with my Geisseles.
https://www.adcofirearms.com/acc/Geissele_KNS.cfm Here is the deal on non-rotating pins
Geissele SSA pins are 0.1550" dia 0.0001. Holes in the trigger can be 5 tenths over Geissele pin size. Kns pins are either .154 or .1555. So they are either too loose or just about a metal to metal fit in Geissele triggers Geissele pins are chrome-moly steel that is rough turned, rough ground, heat treated and then centerless finish ground. They are a quality pin. Why do we not recommend KNS pins? One is that they are the wrong size. Can the smaller diameter pins work? Yes, but they are not the intended size and there can be a 'softer" break to the 2nd stage with them. But the biggest reason is that the KNS pins are soft. Sometimes when they are installed they pull up a burr that causes havoc with trigger operation. I get calls from frustrated customers where they are totally disappointed in their SSA because it either feels terrible or it hangs up. I spend all kinds of time on the phone wracking my brain trying to figure out what is going on and trying to work the customer through the problem. Finally, I ask the customer to send the trigger in (which I hate to inconvenience the customer with) and the issue is that the KNS pins are jamming the trigger up. A hammer or trigger pin that rotates maybe 1/8 of a turn with each shot, *might* wear through the hard anodizing after a million rounds. Let it rotate, it doesn't matter, its nothing to worry about. More FCG holes are damaged by people swapping the pins out every other week in an attempt to fix something that isnt broke. Steve |
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Quoted: Just something to think about, and why I don't use KNS pins with my Geisseles. https://www.adcofirearms.com/acc/Geissele_KNS.cfm Here is the deal on non-rotating pins Geissele SSA pins are 0.1550" dia 0.0001. Holes in the trigger can be 5 tenths over Geissele pin size. Kns pins are either .154 or .1555. So they are either too loose or just about a metal to metal fit in Geissele triggers Geissele pins are chrome-moly steel that is rough turned, rough ground, heat treated and then centerless finish ground. They are a quality pin. Why do we not recommend KNS pins? One is that they are the wrong size. Can the smaller diameter pins work? Yes, but they are not the intended size and there can be a 'softer" break to the 2nd stage with them. But the biggest reason is that the KNS pins are soft. Sometimes when they are installed they pull up a burr that causes havoc with trigger operation. I get calls from frustrated customers where they are totally disappointed in their SSA because it either feels terrible or it hangs up. I spend all kinds of time on the phone wracking my brain trying to figure out what is going on and trying to work the customer through the problem. Finally, I ask the customer to send the trigger in (which I hate to inconvenience the customer with) and the issue is that the KNS pins are jamming the trigger up. A hammer or trigger pin that rotates maybe 1/8 of a turn with each shot, *might* wear through the hard anodizing after a million rounds. Let it rotate, it doesn't matter, its nothing to worry about. More FCG holes are damaged by people swapping the pins out every other week in an attempt to fix something that isnt broke. Steve Thanks for the info...but alot of people do not use after market triggers...so we are back to square one... As I said...To Each Their Own.... By the way...I finally figured out your avatar....  You are very Twisted  ....but it is funny as hell....  SASS |
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Just something to think about, and why I don't use KNS pins with my Geisseles. https://www.adcofirearms.com/acc/Geissele_KNS.cfm Here is the deal on non-rotating pins
Geissele SSA pins are 0.1550" dia 0.0001. Holes in the trigger can be 5 tenths over Geissele pin size. Kns pins are either .154 or .1555. So they are either too loose or just about a metal to metal fit in Geissele triggers Geissele pins are chrome-moly steel that is rough turned, rough ground, heat treated and then centerless finish ground. They are a quality pin. Why do we not recommend KNS pins? One is that they are the wrong size. Can the smaller diameter pins work? Yes, but they are not the intended size and there can be a 'softer" break to the 2nd stage with them. But the biggest reason is that the KNS pins are soft. Sometimes when they are installed they pull up a burr that causes havoc with trigger operation. I get calls from frustrated customers where they are totally disappointed in their SSA because it either feels terrible or it hangs up. I spend all kinds of time on the phone wracking my brain trying to figure out what is going on and trying to work the customer through the problem. Finally, I ask the customer to send the trigger in (which I hate to inconvenience the customer with) and the issue is that the KNS pins are jamming the trigger up. A hammer or trigger pin that rotates maybe 1/8 of a turn with each shot, *might* wear through the hard anodizing after a million rounds. Let it rotate, it doesn't matter, its nothing to worry about. More FCG holes are damaged by people swapping the pins out every other week in an attempt to fix something that isnt broke. Steve Thanks for the info...but alot of people do not use after market triggers...so we are back to square one... As I said...To Each Their Own.... By the way...I finally figured out your avatar....
You are very Twisted ....but it is funny as hell....
SASS 
WRT the pins, they have their applications(as already mentioned in this thread) just not for me. YMMV. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just something to think about, and why I don't use KNS pins with my Geisseles. https://www.adcofirearms.com/acc/Geissele_KNS.cfm Here is the deal on non-rotating pins Geissele SSA pins are 0.1550" dia 0.0001. Holes in the trigger can be 5 tenths over Geissele pin size. Kns pins are either .154 or .1555. So they are either too loose or just about a metal to metal fit in Geissele triggers Geissele pins are chrome-moly steel that is rough turned, rough ground, heat treated and then centerless finish ground. They are a quality pin. Why do we not recommend KNS pins? One is that they are the wrong size. Can the smaller diameter pins work? Yes, but they are not the intended size and there can be a 'softer" break to the 2nd stage with them. But the biggest reason is that the KNS pins are soft. Sometimes when they are installed they pull up a burr that causes havoc with trigger operation. I get calls from frustrated customers where they are totally disappointed in their SSA because it either feels terrible or it hangs up. I spend all kinds of time on the phone wracking my brain trying to figure out what is going on and trying to work the customer through the problem. Finally, I ask the customer to send the trigger in (which I hate to inconvenience the customer with) and the issue is that the KNS pins are jamming the trigger up. A hammer or trigger pin that rotates maybe 1/8 of a turn with each shot, *might* wear through the hard anodizing after a million rounds. Let it rotate, it doesn't matter, its nothing to worry about. More FCG holes are damaged by people swapping the pins out every other week in an attempt to fix something that isnt broke. Steve Thanks for the info...but alot of people do not use after market triggers...so we are back to square one... As I said...To Each Their Own.... By the way...I finally figured out your avatar.... You are very Twisted ....but it is funny as hell....SASS WRT the pins, they have their applications(as already mentioned in this thread) just not for me. YMMV. Now that I can Respect...Not For Me...  They are kinda like Mag Rims for your Car...As someone else stated...Let them Customize them as they will... For the Most Part...The Same... But those of use that Believe in them...Just Like the Mag Rims...as you said...They have their Applications...   Target On... SASS |
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