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Could this be possible?

Not to take away from Noveske, as their double chrome-lined 249 barrels rock, but the lower, upper, and parts kits are no different than RRA. Literally, because Continental Machine and Tool makes the Lower/Upper's along with Stag, S&W, Colt, High Standard, Wilson Tactical, and a few others.

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I'm just gonna say this, it doesn't matter so much who does or does not make Noveske's, or anyone else's, parts.  What matters is the specs they are held to, and how much gauging, inspection, etc., is done to ensure that they are within the specs that are set down.  When you pay for something, no matter WHAT it is, one thing you are paying for is scrap rate.  Manufacturers can't just eat the cost of materials that don't pass muster, so the price of scrap is included in the price they sell product for.  I know it sounds unfair that the consumer has to pay for busted/bad parts, but the alternative is that the manufacturer goes out of business.  Makers that have tighter tolerances will tend to have to junk more parts as not in spec.  This can be mitigated some by making sure that the parts are made in spec to begin with, but scrap is gonna happen, it's the nature of manufacturing.

I'll give you an example of this from my own life.  I work in a factory.  We make products that are under our own name, and we make product for others with their name on them.  Those "private brand" products can be to whatever specs the buyer wants.  Are they made on the same machines? Yes.  Are they made by the same workers under the same roof? Yes.  BUT the difference comes when they go to out QC machines.  Those machines have a scanner on them, and they know when that product goes in what tolerances are allowed for it, and they grade in spec vs. out of spec according to the tolerances allowed for that product.  Can the private brand specify a tighter spec than we do on our own stuff?  Yes they absolutely can.  Can they spec looser specs to keep price down?  Yes.  If they spec tighter, does the cost of the rejects get figured into the contract? You betcha.  

I'll submit that I don't own a complete Noveske rifle.  I have used some of their parts in home builds.  Regardless, a maker does not get the reputation for quality that Noveske has by pumping out crap and cutting corners in the QA/QC departments.  That's one thing that people do not get when they say you are paying for a name.  Why does that name command a premium?  In the vast majority of cases it's because that name has been on a product of superior quality for an extended period of time.  That part is almost universally true whether the product is tires, rifles, or even dog food.

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NO NO NO, I am not saying that product B is the rejects from product A.  I am saying that if product A has tighter specs than product B, it will cost more.  Parts that may be in spec for B will not fall in spec for A.  A will cost more because for 1, there will be more rejects, which will likely be destroyed, and 2, tooling costs will be higher to keep the reject rate down.  

Here's an example: product A calls for a hole to be drilled in it, .050" in inside diameter, plus/minus .001"  Product B calls for a hole .050" but the tolerance is .003"

Now, the mill bit, drill bit, whatever for product B will last longer than for A because they can start out with a slightly larger tool, and let it wear more before it has to be replaced.  This makes that step in making product B cheaper than for A, as that bit will have to be replaced sooner in its wear cycle.  A will also likely have more parts fail to be in tolerance, and thus scrapped.  We are assuming here that products A and B are two different brands of the same thing, as in, same material, finished product looks same, does same job, etc.  This is a crude example, but it is one.

Where I work, the example I used in my first post, we can't just put someone else's name on our rejects, the nature of the product won't let it work.  Our name (or theirs) is molded into the product when it is cured, and you can't just grind one off and glue the other in place without compromising the structural integrity of the product. Rejects, where I work, are rendered completely unusable and recycled.  ETA: in my previous post, I mentioned the private brands we manufacture.  Products under those brands start out under those names, and are made to the specs submitted by the private brand throughout the process.  It's not a case of them starting out as our stuff, not being up to snuff, so shipped out under another name.  The QC machines I referenced scan the bar code on the product, and it knows from that bar code what the specs are, and either accepts or rejects the product based on the specs.  In the case of the private brands, it will be accepted or rejected according to the specs laid out by the company contracting us to make product for them. I will also add that my employer is not in the firearms industry.

On the other hand, a manufacturer could have lax QC and still charge a higher price, but the nature of the market driven economy in the US would likely uncover the lack of QC and the inflated price and they'd either have to tighten quality controls or lower the price.

I can assure that working in manufacturing is a trip, and I see several comments from those that don't on various sites all around the 'net that make me want to both laugh and cry.

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One question what makes a Noveske Barrel so much better than others?

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That is absolutely crazy to me since I am in the construction biz but I guess it is a different process. Basically your saying if product B who also has a pretty good AR and good reputation could possibly be the rejects from product A. So if I am paying pretty much the same price on product B I might be basically getting ripped off because product A has stronger QC. I have never heard of this but have not been around the manufacturer biz. This post will probably get locked.

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That is absolutely crazy to me since I am in the construction biz but I guess it is a different process

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This should be an easy way to look at it.  Have you ever had someone under bid you?  Have they ever done it for a large difference?  I've worked the construction industry (though its been a long time), and it was always clear the low ball bids were from guys using cheaper materials, cutting corners, and that weren't going to be doing as good of a job.  

In the same way, manufacturers source parts from MANY other manufacturers.  The key is they have the parts held to their own standards.  I can build a shed with a plywood floor and 2x4 walls, or I can build it with a poured slab, and 2x6s, both will look the same from the outside.  

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This should be an easy way to look at it.  Have you ever had someone under bid you?  Have they ever done it for a large difference?  I've worked the construction industry (though its been a long time), and it was always clear the low ball bids were from guys using cheaper materials, cutting corners, and that weren't going to be doing as good of a job.  

In the same way, manufacturers source parts from MANY other manufacturers.  The key is they have the parts held to their own standards.  I can build a shed with a plywood floor and 2x4 walls, or I can build it with a poured slab, and 2x6s, both will look the same from the outside.  

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Nothing, they dont. Theres nothing better about a Noveske than any other manufacturer that holds to a specific tolerance (like Lothar Walther, Bartlein, etc.). IMO Noveske is WAY WAY WAY overpriced, but they have an absolutely outstanding marketing machine. Thats all it is.

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I believe the OP was looking for fact, not opinion.
OP is looking for comparison between Noveske and lower tier, NOT contrasting Noveske with the likes of Lothar Walter.
Both are in the same bracket and priced close to each other.
You WILL pay more for a Noveske than a Centurion, however, and there is a reason for that.
Hint: it's NOT because of and ""outstanding marketing machine".

Nick

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Could this be possible?



Not to take away from Noveske, as their double chrome-lined 249 barrels rock, but the lower, upper, and parts kits are no different than RRA. Literally, because Continental Machine and Tool makes the Lower/Upper's along with Stag, S&W, Colt, High Standard, Wilson Tactical, and a few others.

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+1

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You are correct that there is nothing special about their uppers and lowers, but the barrel is the heart of he gun.  Noveske also uses all milspec parts.  If you want to buy another brand that uses all milspec parts and slap a Noveske barrel in it, you would theoretically have just as nice of a rifle.

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This should be an easy way to look at it.  Have you ever had someone under bid you?  Have they ever done it for a large difference?  I've worked the construction industry (though its been a long time), and it was always clear the low ball bids were from guys using cheaper materials, cutting corners, and that weren't going to be doing as good of a job.  

In the same way, manufacturers source parts from MANY other manufacturers.  The key is they have the parts held to their own standards.  I can build a shed with a plywood floor and 2x4 walls, or I can build it with a poured slab, and 2x6s, both will look the same from the outside.  

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Noevske has a QC that is boerderline unreal. I prefer them because of that extra assurance. It is more money, but buy once, cry once. The caveat to this is that you too can build an awesome rifle...just use their QC methods and really good parts.

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Do they use the same tin snips and sledge hammer as I do?  

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Dunno, but their staking marks are gorgeous!

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Nothing, they dont. Theres nothing better about a Noveske than any other manufacturer that holds to a specific tolerance (like Lothar Walther, Bartlein, etc.). IMO Noveske is WAY WAY WAY overpriced, but they have an absolutely outstanding marketing machine. Thats all it is.