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Posted: 1/29/2012 1:09:19 PM EDT
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Ok, so I'm really liking the Pmags. BUT. Neither of my lowers like them. I have two different lowers as it is. An annorexic CMMG lower that basically the magwell hates my P-mags that I saved for my 7.62x39 gas piston AR build because it adores metal mags (At least it works for my ASC mags right?). Anyway, the other one is a Double Star lower that while it smoothly locks my P-mags in, I have to physically pull my mags out, the rear of the magwell is a lil tight and I'd rather not have to send it to a smith who will charge heaven knows what plus having the thing recoated to keep it looking immaculate (I'm anal about that kinna thing, I really enjoy taking care of what I have.) So I want at least one lower I can build, that will be 100% P-mag friendly. A lower that I don't have to ask, I know it will be able to drop free any Pmag I put in it. I won't have to build like 5 of them just to find one that is able to do the job. I like the Spikes lowers (Mainly because of the pictogram selector markings, it's something different. Don't want the "zombie" marking on the magwell, not my thing.) but from what I've read, they seem to be hit or miss. I really like their milled lowers with the cut-in enlarged trigger guard but I have not heard if they're 100% Pmag reliable or not, that and I don't want the "bio hazard" marking either, again not my thing. The company spider logo is nice though but I noticed they don't seem to have any milled lowers with the spider marking and pictogram selector markings. So what is out there that is 100% Pmag reliable and is not gonna cost me an arm and a leg? :) I'd rather save the arm and a leg prices for the upper. lol |
| i'd consider my S&W M&P-15 lower good at taking the P-mag i bought for it. i mean i'm not one of those who is serious or into tactical stuff or action shooting, but the P-mag has always worked better with my AR-15 than the cheap aluminum ones that i first bought. swaps were also alot easier with the P-mag. only downside to them is they're more expensive than the cheap aluminum ones but i'd take a P-mag again any day than the others |
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The only PMags I had trouble with were the one's molded before early 2009, or so, I can look it up if need be. And those were rendered usable by 3 or 4 swipes with a mill file on the front and rear mold parting lines where they touched the magwells. A short list of lowers that have worked for me: Essential Arms. Spikes. AR15.com. PSA. Bushhamster SI Defense CMMG |
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Well these all have the same markings. I don't know how to read them. They say W3 09 A "1" and a "0" near the arrow And the arrow points at a 3 None of them drop clear. I have to pull them out of the magwell. My CMMG magwell I have to pull, HARD to get it out. Like I said, my CMMG apparently has an anorexic magwell so I used it to build a rifle that I have to use metal mags for, because there are no plastic mags for 7.62x39. |
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Codes don't mean crap. Sorry man, you can get a thousand people in here saying "my Brand X" lower works great with PMAGs and that really doesn't mean anything.
It is a tolerance thing taken on a case by case basis. Every single lower out there has a different set of measurements on it due to tolerances in the machining process, and a tiny bit of extra metal or anodizing either way can be the difference between drop free and yank free. Your best bet is to go to a gun show or shop and take a PMAG with you and start testing. Either that or call up companies and get it in writing that PMAGs will drop free or they will exchange it. You might want to try the Noveske Flared Lower for complete overkill. Or the Lancers with the changeable magwells, those would both probably be a sure thing, otherwise it is trial and error. |
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durabo: I mostly agree. A I've read and been told many times - All the lowers are reverse engineered from official Colt/Armalite/USGI lowers in hand, as the original engineering drawings were never released. Probably true, but I'm not an insider ::shrug::. Quoted: Some of the older PMags had a thicker area at the mold parting line.Why is it that every lower that won't function with a pmag is out of spec. Yet, will use USGI? Or are they out of spec. as well? They fixed that in 'mid/late 2009' to the best of my ability to recall without digging out supporting info. This is the area to trim - just above my thumb to the top of the mag on the front and rear faces. 30 seconds, tops for each mag with a file fixed all my older ones - the few that were tight, and the rest just in case. Like I said, that was then, and I've had no prob with newer ones since. And I don't recall having the problem on 30 round mags, just the 20's, but I can only speak for stuff I own.  |
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Quoted:
Why is it that every lower that won't function with a pmag is out of spec. Yet, will use USGI? Or are they out of spec. as well? I don't recall anyone calling anything "out of spec" because it won't drop a PMAG. OP just said he wanted one that would drop them free without trail and error. |
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I managed to talk to Spikes tactical about it.
The guy said that the issues are basically 2 issues. (I'm paraphrasing, no exact quotes here.) 1. The plastic has a rougher surface than steel, which probably does not help to drop free. 2. The molds. They get worn out and you have to mod them (the mags) to fit because you end up with mags that will load into a magwell on the wider end of the tollerance range and even then, there is some rubbing. So you have to mod them. He also says that he only uses Pmags himself. So if that's true (which it prolly is), he's not just saying stuff. He also says that billet Spider lowers will be made but he has no idea when. (Yay! lol) So it looks like I can mod my Pmags in peace and be happy. :) And I'm gonna be looking for a billet Spider lower for a new AR project. My best lower seems to be in the wider range of tollerances. It seems to rub the side of the Pmags just to the rear near the "5" in the 45 in the 5.56x45 markings. If I file this down slowly, it should work. That seems to be the major contact point in that lower. |
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http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/561440_Owners_of_Colt_Lowers___.html Apparently the answer is "Colt."
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Quoted:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/561440_Owners_of_Colt_Lowers___.html Apparently the answer is "Colt." Yeah I know, I've read what Magpul has had to say about the Pmags too. Based on a Colt M16 magwell, etc. Thing is, that may be one symptom, but not mine. My mags clear that spot, that spot never makes contact with that part of the magwell. I took a dremel to the side of the mags I have near the rear and now they all drop free. To check for a bulge in the mags when fully loaded, I loaded one up and tested it, dropped free. The real bad part is that Colt doesn't sell brand new stripped lowers. From what I'm told, the ones seen are used and can sometimes have a high price. Colt is a lil greedy about that it seems. Only wanting to sell whole rifles when there is clearly a market for stripped lowers and has been a market for some time now. Chances are they could get a decent price for Colt stripped lowers because they are Colts. Like one of Colt's own said once, "Some people will pay more for the little horsey on the side." In the case of Pmags, it might make a lil more sense, depending on cost. |
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Quoted:
Well these all have the same markings. I don't know how to read them. They say W3 09 A "1" and a "0" near the arrow And the arrow points at a 3 It seems that you have the latest Rev M PMAG because some of mine have similar markings than yours (except made in a different month), take a look on the top of your follower, there should be a letter "M" on it. The numbers near the arrow are the year of manufacture, in your case 10 is year 2010, and the arrow is pointed at the month, in your case 3 is month of March. The other letters and numbers I don't know their meaning but probably just manufacturing batch and mold codes. I have four Colt lowers they were made that ranges from 2004 up to 2010 and I have a LMT lower made in 2005. All my first gen PMAG made in 2007 all fits, functions and drops free with all my Colt lowers, some of them don't drop free with my LMT which have a slightly smaller mag well dimensions than my Colts. The company recalled these first gen mags but it works on all my AR so I didn't return them, the first revision PMAGs all works including my LMT lower and that's including the latest rev M version mags. |
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