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Posted: 1/12/2011 9:13:01 PM EDT
I have a SW M&P 15 in 5.45x39. The trigger is a smoooth sweet 8lbs!
OK, so SW has an orange or red hammer spring. I think it is higher tension becaue of the 5.45 ammo. Some have reported failure to fire the 5.49. Maybe this was supposed to be the solution. So, ? is.. if I buck up for a Giessele S3G trigger will there be any FTF issues? Any feedback on the 5.45 FTF issues? or just hype? Thanks Wags My 5.56 SW has a much better trigger. I have not checked its pull weight, though. |
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I was having ignition issues - I didn't want a heavier trigger so I used a standard spring.
I improved the situation greatly by removing some of the bolt tail for a deeper firing pin strike. Improved, but still not 100%. Bought the Geissele SSA and have 100%, plus a great trigger. |
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Quoted:
I was having ignition issues - I didn't want a heavier trigger so I used a standard spring. I improved the situation greatly by removing some of the bolt tail for a deeper firing pin strike. Improved, but still not 100%. Bought the Geissele SSA and have 100%, plus a great trigger. I did this but I'm getting 100% so far about 2 cases of surplus. I made an additional change so that might or not help my situation. I made my hammer into a speed hammer by cutting off the "dog leg" for lack of technical word. I compared my AK 74 bolt and my AR 5.45 bolt to compare how far out the firing pin protrude and went for the middle. Keep filing slow and even. As far as the actual trigger I could probally clean it up but it's for cheap practice up close so I didn't bother. |
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I think S&W uses pretty much standard AR parts with the boltface opened up and not changing anything else. So with those limitation the only way for S&W upper to work is to use that crazy heavy super duper hammer spring.
I think Model 1 has a longer 5.45 firing pin compared to the standard firing pin that comes with the S&W 5.45 upper. Folks that use the Model 1 5.45 pin say they can use the standard hammer spring with no issues. I was going to go this route but at the time their website was getting credit card info stolen or issues of that nature if I remember correctly. http://www.model1sales.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=421 So maybe it's a combo of length and power. At least that's what my wife said. 
edit: The G2 AK FCG is really nice for as cheap as it is with no polishing. Too bad no such thing exists for the AR, cheap and half decent FCG. |
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Quoted: I'm using (2) Model 1 Sales [M1S] firing pins and a M1S bolt in my 5.45's. I do not know the manufacturer of my 2nd 5.45 bolt. {Note to self: buy more spare parts.}I think S&W uses pretty much standard AR parts with the boltface opened up and not changing anything else. So with those limitation the only way for S&W upper to work is to use that crazy heavy super duper hammer spring. I think Model 1 has a longer 5.45 firing pin compared to the standard firing pin that comes with the S&W 5.45 upper. Folks that use the Model 1 5.45 pin say they can use the standard hammer spring with no issues. I was going to go this route but at the time their website was getting credit card info stolen or issues of that nature if I remember correctly. http://www.model1sales.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=421 So maybe it's a combo of length and power. At least that's what my wife said. edit: The G2 AK FCG is really nice for as cheap as it is with no polishing. Too bad no such thing exists for the AR, cheap and half decent FCG. The (2) M1S caliber 5.45 firing pins that I compared to the (6) various manufacture caliber 5.56 in my weapons were all similar by caliber. The band that contacts the bolt tail on a M1S firing pin is shaved approximately 0.030" thinner, giving approximately 0.03" deeper overall length inside the bolt, - allowing for a deeper protrusion. It's clearly visible when inspecting the firing pin protrusion through the bolt face. This is equivalent on both 5.45 firing pins to milling the bolt tail shorter. I measured my M1S bolts for over all length and compared them to my 5.56 bolts From the face of the bolt face to the bolt tail, both 5.45 bolts seem to be 0.015" shorter than the 5.56 bolts. It's late/early, and my eyes aint what they used to be, but I'm satisfied that you get the general idea. This is clearly an off-the-cuff measurement I did with spring calipers, and machinists rules, and I'm not swearing to absolutes. I'm just reporting what my stuff measures right now.  ETA: I had to go to the Wolff red springs in both the lowers I use for my 5.45 uppers. Even with the above measurements I was getting about 75% ignition on rounds the first time through and almost 100% ignition on reloading the all FTF rounds. I shoot combloc milsurp exclusively, and I get it all from AIM. Maybe I'll try a speed hammer. It worked well in my Spike's .22 upper. |
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I just got my M1 sales firing pin. I went to toss it in the bolt and it does not fit. The striking end (that hits the primer) of the firing pin is larger diameter than the hole in the bolt face. Stock M&P bolt, so WTF? Thanks Wags Per M1 Sales... " our pin only fits in our bolt". To bad they did not put that on the website. In all fairness they said I could return the firing pin. Wags |
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I run the stock S&W bolt with the stock heavier hammer spring + Bill Springfield trigger job and I am satisfied. Trigger pull is a bit heavier, but breaks clean and I get no light strikes. I have a severe miss fire issue with the lighter spring. 50% ish How heavy do you think your trigger pull is? Or, do you feel an aftermareket trigger with the heavy spring will fire reliably? I was looking at a Geissele trigger anyway. Thanks Wags |
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Quoted:
I was having ignition issues - I didn't want a heavier trigger so I used a standard spring. I improved the situation greatly by removing some of the bolt tail for a deeper firing pin strike. Improved, but still not 100%. Bought the Geissele SSA and have 100%, plus a great trigger. What do you mean by bolt tail? Not the taper on the firing pin I assume? Thanks Wags |
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HELL YES!
I just put in the geissele s3g with their spring, complete. HELL YES! It not only had 0 no fires, but it also feels great! I have a jard on another ar. It is adjusted and sweet. I did not think this trigger would be any better. HELL YES! IT IS. AWESOME PIECE Wags So, geissele s3g, stock everything else. Bolt, firing pin, etc. |
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Quoted: Thanks for that.HELL YES! I just put in the geissele s3g with their spring, complete. HELL YES! It not only had 0 no fires, but it also feels great! I have a jard on another ar. It is adjusted and sweet. I did not think this trigger would be any better. HELL YES! IT IS. AWESOME PIECE Wags So, geissele s3g, stock everything else. Bolt, firing pin, etc.  |
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Quoted:
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Thanks for that.
HELL YES! I just put in the geissele s3g with their spring, complete. HELL YES! It not only had 0 no fires, but it also feels great! I have a jard on another ar. It is adjusted and sweet. I did not think this trigger would be any better. HELL YES! IT IS. AWESOME PIECE Wags So, geissele s3g, stock everything else. Bolt, firing pin, etc.
Because you are with Geissele, or you have a 5.45 you are having issues with? Truth is truth. I was really impressed. I saw the "Geissele is best" posts all over. Did not figure they were that awesome... just the flavor of the month. Well, figured I'd try one. Might be buying another for my 3rd ar. They are that great. Wags |
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Quoted: Because I run the red springs with Bill Springfield trigger jobs in my 5.45s.Quoted: Quoted: Thanks for that.HELL YES! I just put in the geissele s3g with their spring, complete. HELL YES! It not only had 0 no fires, but it also feels great! I have a jard on another ar. It is adjusted and sweet. I did not think this trigger would be any better. HELL YES! IT IS. AWESOME PIECE Wags So, geissele s3g, stock everything else. Bolt, firing pin, etc. Because you are with Geissele, or you have a 5.45 you are having issues with? Truth is truth. I was really impressed. I saw the "Geissele is best" posts all over. Did not figure they were that awesome... just the flavor of the month. Well, figured I'd try one. Might be buying another for my 3rd ar. They are that great. Wags They're smooth after Bill did his stuff, and it was a good job, (and better than 99% ignition) but the red springs make them tight as we've been saying. I didn't think a Geissle trigger/spring would/could best a red spring for ignition. |
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Because I run the red springs with Bill Springfield trigger jobs in my 5.45s.
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for that.
HELL YES! I just put in the geissele s3g with their spring, complete. HELL YES! It not only had 0 no fires, but it also feels great! I have a jard on another ar. It is adjusted and sweet. I did not think this trigger would be any better. HELL YES! IT IS. AWESOME PIECE Wags So, geissele s3g, stock everything else. Bolt, firing pin, etc.
Because you are with Geissele, or you have a 5.45 you are having issues with? Truth is truth. I was really impressed. I saw the "Geissele is best" posts all over. Did not figure they were that awesome... just the flavor of the month. Well, figured I'd try one. Might be buying another for my 3rd ar. They are that great. Wags They're smooth after Bill did his stuff, and it was a good job, (and better than 99% ignition) but the red springs make them tight as we've been saying. I didn't think a Geissle trigger/spring would/could best a red spring for ignition. Roger. I have only put about 30 rounds through the new trigger/ spring setup. HOWEVER no misfires. I had about every other/ 3rd with a standard spring and trigger.. which sucks. I'll blow some more rounds through it this weekend and report back. Sure seems nice, though. So, give me a day or 2 before ordering. Wags |
I ran a tactical rifle match this weeked. I swapped my Oly 5.45 upper onto my Noveske lower that has a S3G trigger. 160 rounds, no FTF. 
Before I added the heavy hammer spring to my 5.45 lower, I was having about a 50% FTF rate. With the heavy hammer spring, I got a 100% fire rate. I was very please to see that the S3G trigger gave me reliable ignition on 5.45. 
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Quoted:
I ran a tactical rifle match this weeked. I swapped my Oly 5.45 upper onto my Noveske lower that has a S3G trigger. 160 rounds, no FTF.
Before I added the heavy hammer spring to my 5.45 lower, I was having about a 50% FTF rate. With the heavy hammer spring, I got a 100% fire rate. I was very please to see that the S3G trigger gave me reliable ignition on 5.45. Possibly we have run across a $olution to the mi$$-firing i$$ues. LOL AND a great trigger also. Wags |
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