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Posted: 1/19/2010 9:48:53 AM EDT
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I am looking at a 16" midlength BCM cold hammer forged barel upper. How accurate are they? Is there a link to this info somewhere on this forum?
I currently use a 14.5 Bushmaster. How much of an increase in accuracy can I expect with the BCM? I hear aot about BCM quality but haven't seen any hard stats yet. thanx |
| Yeah just because your gun cant shoot it doesn't mean that it is impossible. I am getting 1/2 moa with brown box 06 xm193 using a 9 power scope off sand bags. That is with a wilson barrel not a BCM barrel. the BCM I have shoots it right around 1.5 to 1.75 at 100 yards. |
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I think he was saying he was getting .25 inch groups all bullets in a tight cluster right on top of each other and it is quite possible even with XM193. I have a heavy barrel gun that hates federal gold medal 223, but shoots the winchester white box 45 grn cheapo ammo from Walmart 1/4 at 100 yards, sometimes it is just the combination of the gun and what you are feeding it.
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I think he was saying he was getting .25 inch groups He specifically stated "1/4 MOA with XM193". Since genuine M193 isn't even capable of 1.5 MOA accuracy when fired from a machine rested, bolt action test barrel, your claim of "I am getting 1/2 moa with brown box 06 xm193" is also 
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Whatever man, what is it called then? School me then if I don't have the terms correct. I'm still learning about this stuff other then just blasting away for a change. The point is, whether you call it "1/4 MOA" or 0.13" at 50 yards or even 0.25" at 50 yards, XM193 is not capable of that level of accuracy, no matter what barrel you are shooting it through. |
what happened to my post?
since we are on the subject, with my Bushamster 14.5 car and winchester white box Q313A I shoot 1.5 MOA at 50 yards pretty consistently with an Eotech or using BUIS. Prone. I'm fairly certain that I can go sub MOA at 50 yards with this rifle just need practice. Still I would like to know how a 16" BCM stacks up vs. my Bushmaster or something better like Noveseke or Larue. Since I keep getting sugestions to go with a BCM for my 1st build. . |
| I love when people call bullshit on anyone who can get good groups out of their particular gun. I think federal gold medal 69 grain must be bullshit because one of my guns doesn't shoot it well would be an equally ignorant comment. I agree good accuracy with xm193 was very surprising, but it can and does happen. |
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While not a BCM M-4, this is a 5 shot group out of a BCM 18" SS SPR 100 yds with BH 68gr MHP http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k472/kbadphoto/Pets/M4-A3/IMG_1521.jpg very good. I hate flyers too  how much difference would you expect between 16 and 18" And if you would what are the advantages of a midlength besides sight arc?. do they cycle different?Becuase I realy dont know. I just like the longer hanguard.
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Accuracy. A few things to consider when talking about accuracy. Many guys get wrapped around the axel about group size instead on staying focused on "practical accuracy".
Often times I see guys getting in heated debates about 1/2" between two different guns and a majority of their shooting will be done at less than 100 yards, with a non-magnified red dot sight, using 55 grain ammo (not match ammo) that they got at Wal-Mart or the local sporting goods store. If you look around the internet, you'll hear a lot of chatter about how much more accurate a stainless barrel is over a chrome lined barrel. Generally a stainless barrel is more accurate than a chrome lined barrel, but not always by a huge margin. One example of many, take a look at the info Molon posted in the link below. Compare the group sizes of the Noveske 16" stainless barrel (0.92" average) to the Noveske 16" N4 barrel (1.24" average): http://www.ar15.com/forums/top...l?b=3&f=118&t=467919 The difference is just slightly more than 1/3" (one third of an inch). I know you aren't asking about stainless barrels, but I used this because it's an apples to apples comparison of two barrels made by the same manufacturer. When considering accuracy a few things you may want to ask yourself: Are you going to be shooting ammo (ie. match ammo), with optics (ie. 10x or greater), in conditions (ie. a bench), at distances, etc. that 1/3" is going to matter? Also is your skill set good enough that you can consistantly see 1/3" to 1/2" difference between two barrels on a constant basis? More food for thought when thinking about accuracy: 
03designgroup | Which Carbine Is More Accurate 
For most of us, practical accuracy is much more important than group size. I don't have a problem hitting smaller than average targets out to 425 yards with a 3.5x ACOG with BCM standard, BFH, or stainless barrels. |
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For most of us, practical accuracy is much more important than group size. I don't have a problem hitting smaller than average targets out to 425 yards with a 3.5x ACOG with BCM standard, BFH, or stainless barrels. exactly why i rarely ever shoot from a bench. I don't plan on being seated when the need for me to use my gun arises. |
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Quoted:
Accuracy. A few things to consider when talking about accuracy. Many guys get wrapped around the axel about group size instead on staying focused on "practical accuracy". Often times I see guys getting in heated debates about 1/2" between two different guns and a majority of their shooting will be done at less than 100 yards, with a non-magnified red dot sight, using 55 grain ammo (not match ammo) that they got at Wal-Mart or the local sporting goods store. If you look around the internet, you'll hear a lot of chatter about how much more accurate a stainless barrel is over a chrome lined barrel. Generally a stainless barrel is more accurate than a chrome lined barrel, but not always by a huge margin. One example of many, take a look at the info Molon posted in the link below. Compare the group sizes of the Noveske 16" stainless barrel (0.92" average) to the Noveske 16" N4 barrel (1.24" average): http://www.ar15.com/forums/top...l?b=3&f=118&t=467919 The difference is just slightly more than 1/3" (one third of an inch). I know you aren't asking about stainless barrels, but I used this because it's an apples to apples comparison of two barrels made by the same manufacturer. When considering accuracy a few things you may want to ask yourself: Are you going to be shooting ammo (ie. match ammo), with optics (ie. 10x or greater), in conditions (ie. a bench), at distances, etc. that 1/3" is going to matter? Also is your skill set good enough that you can consistantly see 1/3" to 1/2" difference between two barrels on a constant basis? More food for thought when thinking about accuracy: http://www.03designgroup.com/photo/which-carbine-is-more-accurate/icon-which-carbine-is-more-accurate.jpg 03designgroup | <a href="http://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/which-carbine-is-more-accurate" target="_blank">Which Carbine Is More Accurate http://demigodllc.com/icon/extwh3.png </a> For most of us, practical accuracy is much more important than group size. I don't have a problem hitting smaller than average targets out to 425 yards with a 3.5x ACOG with BCM standard, BFH, or stainless barrels. I agree ref practical accuracy. Unless you're a sniper out to make those long, crucial shots then 1/2 MOA is nice to brag about but in reality who cares? The average guy uses these guns to plink steel, run matches, maybe defend himself from this or that threat some day, or if in the military or LEO to punch a bad guy full of holes. But generally if you can hit a coffee saucer every time you pull the trigger at various ranges under all conditions and shooting positions then you're good to go even as a door kicker in Iraq or an LEO in Detroit. These are battle rifles. They're designed to kill people at short to medium range. If you train well you can do pretty amazing things with them, but as for me I don't really care if it shoots tiny little groups at this or that range. |
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Accuracy. A few things to consider when talking about accuracy. Many guys get wrapped around the axel about group size instead on staying focused on "practical accuracy". Often times I see guys getting in heated debates about 1/2" between two different guns and a majority of their shooting will be done at less than 100 yards, with a non-magnified red dot sight, using 55 grain ammo (not match ammo) that they got at Wal-Mart or the local sporting goods store. If you look around the internet, you'll hear a lot of chatter about how much more accurate a stainless barrel is over a chrome lined barrel. Generally a stainless barrel is more accurate than a chrome lined barrel, but not always by a huge margin. One example of many, take a look at the info Molon posted in the link below. Compare the group sizes of the Noveske 16" stainless barrel (0.92" average) to the Noveske 16" N4 barrel (1.24" average): http://www.ar15.com/forums/top...l?b=3&f=118&t=467919 The difference is just slightly more than 1/3" (one third of an inch). I know you aren't asking about stainless barrels, but I used this because it's an apples to apples comparison of two barrels made by the same manufacturer. When considering accuracy a few things you may want to ask yourself: Are you going to be shooting ammo (ie. match ammo), with optics (ie. 10x or greater), in conditions (ie. a bench), at distances, etc. that 1/3" is going to matter? Also is your skill set good enough that you can consistantly see 1/3" to 1/2" difference between two barrels on a constant basis? More food for thought when thinking about accuracy: http://www.03designgroup.com/photo/which-carbine-is-more-accurate/icon-which-carbine-is-more-accurate.jpg 03designgroup | <a href="http://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/which-carbine-is-more-accurate" target="_blank">Which Carbine Is More Accurate http://demigodllc.com/icon/extwh3.png </a> For most of us, practical accuracy is much more important than group size. I don't have a problem hitting smaller than average targets out to 425 yards with a 3.5x ACOG with BCM standard, BFH, or stainless barrels. I agree ref practical accuracy. Unless you're a sniper out to make those long, crucial shots then 1/2 MOA is nice to brag about but in reality who cares? The average guy uses these guns to plink steel, run matches, maybe defend himself from this or that threat some day, or if in the military or LEO to punch a bad guy full of holes. But generally if you can hit a coffee saucer every time you pull the trigger at various ranges under all conditions and shooting positions then you're good to go even as a door kicker in Iraq or an LEO in Detroit. These are battle rifles. They're designed to kill people at short to medium range. If you train well you can do pretty amazing things with them, but as for me I don't really care if it shoots tiny little groups at this or that range. Agreed. Sitting at a bench with wind meters, sand bags etc. while fun, is pretty much a moot point unless you are a sniper,benchrest shooter or varmint hunter. As a civilian I'm not a sniper. And while shooting @ 100 mtrs for accuracy is nice it doesnt tell you the whole story at 300+ yds. A rifle might shoot like a house afire @ 100 with a certain load , it might not be so whoopie @ 300. And one that shoots mediocre @ 100 might shoot fine @ 300.And the chance of having a concrete bench and a rest to sit on it in the field are kinda slim. |
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OK let me ask this. If you had unlimited money and there were only 2 barrels in the world and you had to choose one a Bushmaster 16" or a BCM 16" and you were only concerned with dead on ACCURACY to save your life. wich one would you buy?and why?  Both should be about equall in terms of quality. As far as which one, I'd go with the BCM, as Bushmaster doesn't offer a 1:7 twist-rate (at least not openly to civilians). Both, however, are "budget" rifles/uppers (the BCM being the best bang for the buck currently and Bushmaster being the cheaper alternative to Colt - no disrespect meant to either manufacturer). If I had unlimited money, I'd go with a Noveske (or another, rather) or an LMT. The choices you offered aren't necessarily ones that someone who had infinite amounts of money would make, as there are much better choices out there. It all depends on your budget and use. |
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I agree . I currently have a bushmaster am am getting a BCM hammer foged barrel and my original post was how much more accurate would the BMC be..Then then answers got convoluted into practical accuracy instead of an honest wich one is more accurate answer. I am asuming from the answers so far that Bushmaster and BCM are 100% exactly the same in the accuracy dept. So I jokingly tried to word it so maybe I could glean more from my question. If I could afford one I would get the Noveske . Someday I will.
As far as them both being budget. It always seemed to me reading some of the experts posts here that BCM was on tier with COlT and LMT and BUshmaster was a tier lower. |
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As far as them both being budget. It always seemed to me reading some of the experts posts here that BCM was on tier with COlT and LMT and BUshmaster was a tier lower. Colt, LMT, Noveske, and BCM are all close to being in the same catagory. Look at the charts in this article and compare Colt, LMT, and BCM, you'll see that all 3 are very close in having the same features. I own at 3 Colt LE6920's, 4 LMT carbines, and 4 BCM carbines. Quality is about the same across the board with Colt, LMT, and BCM: 
03designgroup | BCM Complete AR15 Upper and Lower Receivers
The reason that most people give the edge to BCM is due to all the options that are avalible. With Colt you are basically limited to 11.5", 16" carbine, and 20" rifle. With LMT you are basically limited to 10.5", 14.5" carbine, and 16" carbine (not including the LMT MRP because it's not an "apples to apples" comparision) With BCM they offer 11.5", 12.5" 14.5" carbine, 14.5" mid-length, 16" carbine, 16" mid'-length, 18" rifle, and 20" rifle. Barrels can be had in standard, cold hammer forged, or stainless steel (SS410). You can get a plain upper or an upper that already has a rail installed on it from LaRue, Daniel Defense, KAC, PRI, Midwest Industries, Vltor, etc. At last count they had over 80 different configurations avalible. Hope this helps |
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