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Posted: 4/25/2008 3:50:49 PM EDT
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What's the difference between a barrel that is chromed lined and one that is chromed molly? Why would you want one and not the other / Pros VS. Cons? |
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Some manufacturers try and convince us that chrome molly is more accurate, or that we don't need it unless we are shooting full auto/military. That's bull crap. Chrome molly is just a steel bore and must be maintained/cleaned as such. Chrome lined is where the bore and chamber are plated with chrome. Chrome lining is a military spec. and is more forgiving if you can't, or don't have time to detail clean your bore, it's easier to clean when you do and keeps the bore from getting pitted with rust if not well oiled when stored, etc. Do yourself a favor and don't buy unless it's chromed lined; otherwise, you'll end up selling off barrels/uppers down the road when you realize that you want chrome lined barrels. For what it's worth, my AR's with chrome lined barrels are just as accurate as the chrome molly barrels I use to have. |
You might want it later though. I had the buyer's remorse on a non chrome bore and traded out for one. The same might happen to you, or it might not, I just try and get the best I can so as to avoid regretting anything later. It is also much easier to clean. |
Chrome lining is insurance aganst a pitted chamber, which the AR is not forgiving of. See Viet Nam for more info on why this was bad. |
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1st if anyone tells you a chrome lined barrel "of the same manufacture" is as accurate as one that is not I will say bullsh*t. Chrome lining is not a perfect process. It will vary in thickness,,,don't believe me? run an internal mic down the bore and see for yourself. 2nd as far as cleaning I say sure a chrome lined barrel is easier to maintain, but lets be honest here and say that you have over $1000 invested in a gun you are going to treat it better than your first born. You will not be running through the jungles of Vietnam, dropping it in the mud, etc....This is why the milspec calls for chrome lining. I have shotguns rifles and pistols some of which are older than most people here and not 1 of them has a spot of rust or pitting. So, if your a lazy bast*rd and don't take care of your stuff go ahead and pay the extra for the lining. |
Is it also slightly heavier? I know that the OP will not be going through jungles or subjecting his rifle to heavy use/abuse- but what if there comes a time when he has to? I am not a big SHTF type but it seems wise to get the best set-up you can afford. If it is a carbine that will be fired offhand, the potential gains are greater than any accuracy decrease. |
Let's be honest too, you are not likely to notice that lost half moa of accuracy with GI ball or most factory ammo either. There is theoretical accuracy and then there is practical accuracy. |
Wow for a second there I thought we were in GD 
Very well put |
As stated above, accuracy loss is the main distracter of chrome lining. I am all about keeping peak accuracy in match barrels. I have many chrome moly match barrels, some date back to the early-1930's, and they continue to shoot sub-MOA, without extraction issues, without corrosion issues. I have N.M. Garand and N.M. M1A rifles, all chrome moly: no extraction problems, no corrosion issues. My go-to rifle is a N.M. M1A. If you are not interested in peak accuracy, a chrome lined barrel will serve you well. If you are interested in peak accuracy, spend the money (usually starting at $375), and buy a top tier AR match barrel, with a specifically matched bolt. |
Glad to see I am not alone in this belief. I clean & lube all of my guns once a month. (takes 1 full day) Some are +50years and look & shoot like new. Guess it is just how you look at the situation. Some just don't have time or desire to properly care for them, so they will always look for an easier way. |
I'd like to read the results of that test. I've seen experimental 17-4P (and then hardened even more) last 12K rounds, but those barrels averaged a cost of $3780 each. |
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IN MY EXPERIENCE, UTILIZING A BENCH REST, HIGH POWER OPTICS, A GOOD TRIGGER, AND TOP SHELF AMMO, BEST QUALITY S/S MATCH GRADE BARRELS SHOOT SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER THAN MOST CHROME LINED BARRELS, ESPECIALLY AT EXTENDED RANGE. LESSER QUALITY S/S BARRELS ALLEGED TO BE "MATCH GRADE" DO NOT ALWAYS, HOWEVER. SHOOTING OFF YOUR HIND LEGS WHILE RUNNING AND GUNNING, THIS DISTINCTION ENJOYED BY BEST QUALITY MATCH GRADE BARRELS TENDS TO AWAY, UNLESS YOU'RE A WORLD CLASS 3-GUN SHOOTER, LIKE OUR SPONSORED SHOOTER, TARAN BUTLER, 4-TIME USPSA 3-GUN TACTICAL CLASS NATIONAL CHAMP. JUNK AMMO PRODUCES JUNK RESULTS, TOO, REGARDLESS OF BARREL QUALITY, AND OFTEN WON'T EVEN FUNCTION IN A MATCH, I.E., TIGHT, CHAMBER. MEDIOCRE AMMO ONLY MOVES YOU UP TO MEDIOCRE ACCURACY. WE WERE PRIVILEGED TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BUILD UP A COUPLE OF NOVESKE 17-4 BARRELS INTO UPPERS FOR TWO SHOOTERS OF SOME CONSIDERABLE SIGNIFICANCE, AND THESE GUNS ARE STILL SHOOTING SUB-MOA AFTER WELL OVER 10,000 ROUNDS. UNFORTUNATELY, AS PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED, SUCH BARRELS ARE PROHIBITIVELY EXPENSIVE TO PRODUCE. SO FAR, THE ONE BARREL THAT PROVIDES BEST COMBINATION OF ACCURACY, DURABILITY, AND AFFORDABILITY I HAVE ENCOUNTERED IS THE NOVESKE N4 BARREL:   TURNED DOWN FROM WITHIN 1/10,000" STRAIGHT HAMMER FORGED F-N M249 BARREL BLANKS, THEY SHOOT CONSISTENTLY SUB-MOA WITH MATCH GRADE AMMO. AS THESE BLANKS ARE MADE FOR EXTREMELY HEAVY USE, AS IN BELT-FED MACHINE GUNS, YOU'LL PROBABLY NEVER WEAR ONE OUT IN A SEMI-AUTO CARBINE. THEY WEIGH NEXT TO NOTHING (25 OZ IN 14.5"), TOO. GOOD SHOOTING, WES GRANT MSTN.BIZ |
to save myself some typing, a quick cut-n-paste from this thread, www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=364817
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Not quit so... Thats like saying I can 1hole at PBR so I can 1 hole at any range. <would love to see you or anyone for that matter prove it> 1MOA @25yds =4.0MOA@ 100yds so it is not the same. The fact that the post stated only MOA leaves it up to the individual to decide at what range the report was givin. In (standard terms) MOA suggests 100yds though after 15000 rounds I would have to say  Show me the proof or STFU. Just 'cause you have 1000+posts does not make you an expert, rather just someone that runs their mouth/fingers allot.
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really? tell us more. ar-jedi ETA: just to save the above post before the upcoming big edit...
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Thank you for that ar-jedi. I believe this is the info the OP was looking for. Many people confuse chrome-moly with chrome lined. And for you MOA guy's a quick search: A minute of arc, arcminute, or MOA is a unit of angular measurement, equal to one sixtieth (1/60) of one degree. [1] Since one degree is defined as one three hundred sixtieth (1/360) of a circle, 1 MOA is 1/21600 of the amount of arc in a closed circle. It is used in those fields which require a unit for the expression of small angles, such as astronomy or marksmanship. This unit is commonly found in the firearms industry and literature, particularly that concerning the accuracy of rifles. The industry tends to refer to it as minute of angle rather than minute of arc. It is popular because 1 MOA subtends approximately one inch at 100 yards, a traditional distance on target ranges. A shooter can easily readjust his rifle scope by measuring the distance in inches the bullet hole is from the desired impact point, and adjusting the scope that many MOA in the same direction. Most target scopes designed for long distances are adjustable in quarter (¼) or eighth (⅛) MOA "clicks". One eighth MOA is equal to approximately an eighth of an inch at 100 yards or one inch at 800 yards. |
If you weren't so obnoxious with the B.S. stuff, you might be forgiven for being such a dumba** |
1 MOA @ 25 yards = 4 MOA @ 100 yards? Sounds like you are the one running his fingers too much LOL! |
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Ok,ok, I give up. I was getting rather hot and started confusing MOA with POI. but the question remains that just because a gun can shoot 1MOA@25yds it does not necessarily mean that it will shoot 1MOA@100yds. There are too many factors that can affect the longer shot. IE: bullet instability fired from a worn out bore, the affects of which would be negligible at the closer range. To believe that a stainless barrel with 15,000 round through it could shoot 1MOA@100yds is definitely hard for me to believe. |
You'll have to ask Bigbore about that. Also Larue has one of their stainless steel LW barrels shooting sub-moa at 9,000 rounds. Again if you dont believe it go private message Mark Larue |
stop digging.
very true -- it might be more accurate at 100yds. (*)
based on what empirical evidence? ar-jedi (*) i can think of at least three reasons off the top of my head... first, for a few hundred barrel diameters downrange, there is aerodynamic lift in the direction that the bullet first yawed. this effect alone is responsible for a great deal of variation of POI. and in turn, it is why the quality of the barrel rifling and crown are so important. second, there is what is known as epicyclic swerve, which is an expensive term to describe the fact that the bullet chases it's tip as it wobbles along downrange. this results in the bullet following a helical path as it flies toward the target. for some types of bullets, the result of the yaw "improving" at long distances is that the helix gets tighter -- counterintuitively improving accuracy. third, there is a steady, predictable drift towards the right for common right hand twist barrels. this is due to aerodynamic forces on the spinning projectile -- the same forces which make a spinning baseball curve on it's path towards the batter. --- the first and second above can be addressed by picking quality barrels and ammunition, and paying special attention to uniformity of depth of the rifling, the uniformity of the barrel dia, and also the precision of the barrel crown. as for the projectile itself, it follows that uniformity of construction (jacket and core) is so essential. ergo, M855, with it's often-slightly-off-center penetrator, is right out for precision work. ps: everything you need to know is in McCoy, R. L., “Modern External Ballistics, The Launch and Flight Dynamics of Symmetric Projectiles” |
Let me get this right... what you seam to be saying is that a rifle with 15,000 through it's stainless barrel meets this criteria? Again all I am saying is "I" find this very unlikely. All your "knowledge" is not going to sway my thinking, as I have yet to see it in person in any rifle with that much use. You have your thoughts/beliefs on the matter and I have mine. Is that so hard to accept? |
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