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Posted: 9/28/2007 6:12:02 PM EDT
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Any thoughts on the quality of a DPMS lower pars kit? I'm thinking of using one in a stripped lower but wanted to make sure they're quality parts. Thanks for the help. |
| You'll be told to stay away from them...how many of which actually use them I'm not certain. I use them since they only cost me $44 from Brownells & haven't had any prob's yet. The parts I've received are nice quality, but tt appears they are hit & miss with others. |
| I'm putting together a review of all the LPK's. It will be a while before I'm 100% done with all the hardness testing and all but right now the RRA and Colt LPK's look to be the best. DPMS is OK and the cheapest, but for the extra $10-$15 I'd sure get the RRA. BTW the Model1 kit flunks, run away from those. |
RRA kit I bought a few years back came w/a mag release that was cracked at the rivet, and broke off after a few uses. The crack was in plain view and obvious with a casual glance. Which told me that RRA doesn't inspect their parts before selling them. Which told me that I shouldn't buy any more parts from RRA, unless they're being sold over the counter and I can see them before I buy. Actually, I'd rather buy milsurp Colt M16 pieces, and modify the hammer, trigger and disconnector to AR compliant form. Which is the main reason I go to gun shows these days, when I need parts. 
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I installed one in my stripper lower (Mega) and have been very pleased with the quality hus far. I swapped out the trigger for a Geissele, but the parts had a good fit and finish. I'd be curious to know how a RRA kit varies from a DPMS in terms of the metal and manufacturing standards. |
Doesn't CMT/Stag make the RRA LPK? |
Figuring out who's parts are the same is one of the key objectives. I will have a CMT/Stag LPK in the next few days and let you know. It would be good if they are the same cause you can usually find Stag LPK's for a little cheaper than the RRA. For you guys using DPMS LPK's. I would highly recommend you drill out the rear of the trigger guard with a #30 drill before you assemble your lower. The couple of them that I have measured are dangerously tight on that rear roll pin. I imagine this greatly increases your chances of breaking off one of those ears on your receiver. |
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I've used 6 DPMS LPK's and haven't had any problems with any of them. I bought 2 LPK's from an AZ dealer who used to be a sponsor on this site, and had a problem with a selector lever being out of spec, but a minute with a dremel fixed that. I also have used RRA LPK once, no issues with them either, but I paid 13 bucks more than what I pay for DPMS, so I'm sticking with DPMS for the most part... |
Aren't all Colt trigger & hammer pins bigger at .170 vs. the standard .154 for the other brands? |
I got the CMT/Stag LPK today, it's certainly not the same as RRA. It seems to be the exact same as a DPMS, unless I got screwed by the dealer I bought it from. It came in a baggy that says "STAG ARMS" but I guess the parts could have been swapped. Here's my take on LPK's so far. Ether get a DPMS for as cheap as possible and it should work OK but some of the parts could certainly be a little better. Or spend $15 more and get a RRA, that all the parts seem really well machined and finished. I'll hit all the details when I do a write up on them. |
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I've used 4 DPMS kits and 3 RRA kits. The RRA kits are nicer in every respect, including trigger crispness. I had no trouble installing either brand, but the better finish on the RRA parts has got me sold. One thing I don't like about the RRA, however, is the hex key grip screw. If something like that loosens in the field I want to have a common tool fix it. I paid 52 for the DPMS and 63 for the RRAs. |
I've heard that the CMT/STAG and RRA LPKs use the same style of roll pins (coiled not split) what did did yours come with? DPMS uses split roll pins. |
Like what? Since you used only one, what did you have to fit? |
The alleged Stag LPK I got today has all split type roll pins, where the RRA has a coiled pin for the bolt hold open and split for the trig guard. And the alleged Stag kit also has a slotted head pistol grip screw just like DPMS and unlike the internal hex screw that RRA uses. I don't think anything is wrong with using split roll pins, they are more than strong enough, but it is a good point for identification. I've seen allegations floating around arfcom of dealers switching parts, and I even think it's happened to me a couple times. That's one of the major reasons I'm going to do a very detailed write up on the LPKs. If you're paying extra for brand X parts you darn well better get them. I want to do bolts next, but they are hard as hell to tell apart. |
Yes but I was refereing to the thickness of the spring used. The same thing if you compare a LMT trigger and hammer spring to a DPMS. THe LMT is thicker. |
If you want take pics of the parts you recieved and IM me and I will give you my email address. Im a dealer for all of the major manufacturers and have some Stag LPK's that should be here anytime now from the factory and we can figure out if what you recieved was in fact CMT/Stag? |
Stag LPK's are not the same as DMPS. Their hammer's different along with the roll pins & trigger/hammer group springs. |
Odd... The bolt catch and trigger guard roll pins I ordered directly from RRA are all coiled pins. Did you order your RRA LPK directly from RRA? |
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So for those of you still following this thread. I learning some interesting things today. The STAG kit I have is in fact a STAG kit. I have 100% verified that all the kits I have are all correct from their manufactures. I have learned that STAG has switch parts manufactures around and as far as I can tell uses the same parts as DPMS. I will have a Bushmaster kit here in a few days but I suspect it to be the same as RRA. I did some roll pin investigating today. I pulled up spec sheets for split and coil type roll pins and they actually have exactly the same double shear strength. I had always assumed that the coiled type where stronger but that is not the case. So I called Spirol International and spoke to a salesman there to learn what advantages coiled roll pins may have. The only advantage seams to be ease of assembly for automated machines or for installing in out of round or undersized holes. So I'm reverting back to what I said before.
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I think STAG has switched parts manufactures. They have sold both the notched and the non notched hammers. This confusion is why I thought I might have gotten screwed on the STAG LPK I got. They may go back and forth with whatever parts are available. |
From what I understand is that Stag whose daddies company is CMT makes the majority of theit own parts. I wonder if they are that backed up they are outsourcing? |
none of the companies mentioned in this thread make their own small parts folks. please wake up and understand that they ALL buy their small parts from the suppliers that have them in stock. They "horse trade" amongst themselves as well. Forward assists for example are in great demand. if you want to start a company start making forward assists. YHM is releasing a series of complete uppers and they are advertising them with tear drops. As if it's an upgrade.  Just about the time you finish the research of LPKs the next bag of goodies will have parts with slight differences because company X got a deal on a box of 10K hammers. |
That's what I have heard and found and why I went out of my way to get the coiled roll pins direct from RRA. The coiled roll pins also do less damage to the aluminum hole. |
I have dropped this project. In the beginning I intended to put all the parts to some real scrutiny. But it's really pretty pointless. All you need to know can be summed up in this- Never buy M1S, it's the only one that is really no good. All the other brands except Colt and RRA are all the exact same parts, so just buy DPMS because they're cheaper. Or if you want a little nicer parts spend the extra $10 and get the RRA kit. I personally will always get RRA kits from now on, but that's only because I really appreciate the attention to detail. Little things like the mag release fitting a little tighter for less wobble and a little cleaner trigger pull out of the box make it worth $10 more to me. |
How many RRA LPK's are you basing your opinion on? I've had a few and while over all, I've been happy with their kits, I can say I've seen as much variation in their parts as I've seen from other sources. I think you may be kidding yourself if you think RRA pays any more attention to the details of their LPKs then DPMS, Stag or anybody else. That's been my experience anyway. YMMV |
Of the RRA roll pins that I have, the trigger guard pins are parkerized and the bolt catch pins are blued. All of the Bushy roll pins that I have seen were blued. I like the blued pins better because they are smoother and may install easier. |
| I bought a couple Bushy pin/spring kits to keep on hand for spare parts and all of the pins are blued and the trigger/hammer springs are made of smaller diameter wire than any of the DPMS, RRA, or M1S kits I've used. I'm not impressed. From now on I'll stick to DPMS. |
I wouldn’t say that, some are definitely better then others. What I would say is that it is more of a crap shoot as to how good of a kit you get. From my experience I would say that no company’s kit (except maybe Colt’s) are consistent enough to say that brand “A”s are always good or that brand “B”s. are always bad I generally buy 2 - 3 LPK’s at a time and I don’t ever recall getting 2 LPK’s from the same exact source at the same time and had every part in both kits match exactly. As an example, I remember buying 2 kits once (can’t remember the source?) and one of the kits came with the best trigger guard I’ve ever seen. This thing is beautifully parkerized and rounded off. It looks just like a straight version of the Magpul TG. The other kit just had the standard, non rounded blued TG. There are a few things that generally stay consistent from most companies. Armalite and RRA kits always come with parkerized socket head pistol grip screws. Some others like BM and J&T come with SS slot head screws. Armalite kits come in really cool small plastic container that is perfect for keeping small spare parts in your range bag. BM kits always come with plastic TG’s. Other then things like that though; I think it’s mostly pot luck. |
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All of this is good to know. I need one right now and think I will get the RRA kit. Thing is I know I will be swapping out the trigger and not using the pistol grip. Can I pick up the rest of the parts individually? I know it is easier to just get the full LPK and sit on the extra stuff. Guess I can paint all those A1 and A2 pistol grips red and hang them on the Christmass tree. |
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