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Posted: 6/22/2007 5:33:05 PM EDT
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I know I'll probably get several different answers to this question and there won't really be a wrong answer, but what is the best BCG going right now? I'm looking for a MP tested complete BCG with properly staked gas key. LMT? CMT? FN? One of Denny's Super Duty? This will be for my RRA Middy. Thanks guys! -Hershey |
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After continuing to look, I think I'm gonna go with a Bravo Co BCG. MPI inspected, shot peened, grade 8 hardware, staked key, chrome lined key, BCM extractor spring, black insert, and Crane O-ring. All for $130. I can't think of anything else it should have. -Hershey |
You chose wisely. |
+1 |
Great choice! After doing mucho research myself, I also bought a complete BCM BCG for my slow-in-coming-upper-build. You just can't beat the BCM product line for the quality and price point. I understand that COLT sets the bar for product quality as they have the actual TDP info, but the BCM line of products, IMHO, is just as good. |
+1 for the BCM BCG, I would say the fit and finish is better than that of my LMT BCG, and the LMT was good. The BCM was recomended by Denny. Good enough for him, good enough for me!! mr45acp2u |
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1) Colt or FN (good luck on that one) 2) LMT or BCM The slightly higher price, over junk from the likes of DPMS/Bushmaster/Blackthorne/etc., is well worth it IMO. The BCG is "somewhat" of a critical component, don't cheap out on it.  I don't know why people are so willing to buy junk.I HAVEN'T HAD ENOUGH TIME ON A JP CARRIER SO I CAN'T SAY IF IT'S WORTH A SHIT OR NOT BUT WES AT MSTN IS ALL OVER SO IT'S LIKELY GTG. 
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Can you explain in detail why the bolt and carrier form Bushmaster is "junk" while a bolt and carrier from Colt is good to go? I am really interested in this. You see I thought they both sourced their carriers from the same companies at times and they were made from the same materials with the same finishes and were identical because they came of the same machinery. The only differences I know of are the extractor spings, O-rings, and batch testing of Bushmaster components vs individual testing of the Colt. It just seems to me its easy to add those parts and have identical components but somehow Bushmaster is "junk" to you. What am I missing? |
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Guys. I didn't mean to start any arguements. Like I said above, I like Colt stuff, I just think they are too proud of it and I'm not willing to pay what they want just for it to be a Colt, especially considering some of the other options available. I'm sure the JP and Youngs chromed carriers are great too and I'm sure they are easier to clean too, I'm just not interested in spending that kind of money on a BCG. I'm certainly not looking for the cheapest one I can find either. I'm looking for a quality Mil-Spec type BCG for a reasonable price. I think for me the LMT, CMT, Bravo Co is the way to go. I just got an email response this AM from Bravo Co stating that their BCG are also machined from 158 Carpenter Steel. So that makes them chrome lined, right steel, properly heat treated, properly staked, MPI, shot peened, correct grade fasteners, and right extractor insert, with O-ring and BCM extractor spring, all for the right price. I think I've made up my mind at least. Thanks for all your help and suggestions! -Hershey |
pkfirearms...good guys! 
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I've had a couple of BM BCG's fail from loose gas keys because their staking job is just for looks (compare it to a Colt/LMT unit and you'll see what I mean). Fucked up my gas tube on one of the guns which was fun to replace. Batch testing is also a no-go for me when it comes to critical components. I bought BM parts when I was young and dumb...well at least I'm not young anymore.  I has nothing to do with "kool-aid". Once other vendors start building their products like Colt, there will be no argument. I would buy FN AR15/M16 products in a heartbeat especially if they sold for less money. Why? Because FN does it right too. As you saw, I also recommend LMT and BCM. The reason why I don't usually go that route is because I can generally get Colt BCG's for $140 new and for a extra $10, I'd rather get the Colt over the LMT or BCM. However, if I was in a pinch, I would have no problems using a LMT or BCM BCG. |
www.autoweapons.com/photos/accys/colt.html has Colt BCGs for $195 (about 1/2 way down the page). IMO the BCG and barrel are the heart of the weapon. Better to save money elsewhere, IMO. FWIW, shot peening, MP testing and proper staking provide some assurance that everything else is squared away (materials, heat treat, etc.) |
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What are folks' thoughts on the following: Carriers: There's not a whole lot of difference among carriers, except for fasteners and staking quality. If you alreday have a decent BM/Armalite/RRA carrier, just pay to have the staking beefed up and you'll be good to go. Bolts: here's where you need to pay attention. Get a good, correct alloy, MPI-tested bolt. Get a proper extractor, pay attention to wear, and make sure you run it with the correct spring and insert. Supplement that with a proper O-ring and you'll be GTG. |
I tend to agree with those who say poor staking may be indicative other issues. If they are too cheap to buy and use the proper staking tools, what else are they scrimping on (materials, machining, heat treat, etc.)? If you already have a carrier that's working fine, then by all means keep it unless/until you experience problems. If, OTOH, you are shopping for a new BCG for an existing AR or an AR build, then get the best one you can afford. |
I see your point, but like I said some of the others (the BCM I know) also have all the features I know of the Colt has for less $$$. To me it just makes good sense to go with the same quality product, for less money and put the rest toward ammo and training. Especially with the price of ammo these days!  Anyway, like I said I'm all for the best, but I think you reach a point with some products, wether it be electronics, cars, jeans, or guns that you are just paying for the name.If you know of some quality the Colt has that the others are lacking please let us know. -Hershey |
As a CPA, I see your point, too. Other things equal, go with the lowest price. Those BCM carriers, and Denny's "super duty" carriers look like great components for the money. |
Not necessarily true. I've leard the hard way that CMT sucks. I've had bad CMT carriers (among other bad CMT parts) that would fold over the gas rings on the bolts (not to mention their joke of a staking job). I will no longer buy CMT/STAG products because I think they sell reject or seconds to the civilian/LE market. Sure, they contract to big gov't but those items actually meet spec. When a batch fails, they don't just trash it...they sell it us or they cut corners for non-contract items. CMT can suck it as far as I'm concerned. Hershey - We've gone over the advantages that Colt has. LMT and BCM do seem to meet all of the requirements but neither of those companies have the TDP like Colt and FN do. That being said, I have NO PROBLEMS using their BCG's...a $65 difference is a lot for a $130 part and if I was tight on cash, I would have no problem buying a LMT/BCM BCG because the LMT/BCM unit offer QUALITY. What kills me are the people who pay $110-$130 for a DPMS or CMT BCG rather than spending the extra $0 to $20 to have a high quality, individually tested, correctly staked LMT/BCM unit. That's just PLAIN FUCKING STUPID. |
Could you elaborate, not exactly sure what you mean. Also, I agree on the staking, but that's easily corrected. It's a shame they don't do it right from the get go, especially since it doesn't take much more effort to get it right from the start, but there are many things in life that as soon as you purchase them you resign yourself to the fact you'll either have to do some minor tweakage (or you won't get too upset if you find out you need to, e.g., 1911's) to get it right. |
This is what I'm talking about. Proper staking is such as easy thing and a CRITICAL aspect of building a Carrier. If CMT is skimping on this easy step, what else are they skimping on? As far as the other problem, what was happening was that after a few rounds, the bolt would get stuck. It took a screwdriver and a hammer to get the BCG back into battery. Once I took the whole BCG apart, I saw that one of the gas rings was "folded over" one of the ledges that holds the rings in place. I figured it was a mis-installed ring so I put in a new one and after a few more rounds, it did it again. Good times. |
That's a heavily discounted price right? Not possible for the public? |
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For me, I only run M16 carriers and use Wolff x-power extractor springs with black inserts on all of my bolts. As far as brands go, I rank them like this... 1 = Colt - All but one of my BCGs are complete Colt M16 groups and I've never paid more then $150 total for a complete set. You have to look around and have the patience to find the right deals but they are out there. 2 = LMT - A decent alternative. Supposed to be MP tested and shot peened? They are at least properly stacked from the factory (amazing how rare that is? ). Watch these though because there where some out of spec LMT carriers going around. I bought one that none of my bolts would fit into. I've read reports from others here who've had the same issue but I think it was just one bad batch. I have 1 complete LMT group that I use in my beater\truck gun that has been fine so far.3 = BCM or Denny's enhanced sets. I've never used either of these but I trust Denny and Paul enough that I would be willing use their stuff without fear. |
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Now we have experts who because of a single CMT unit they had having a single issue are spreading rumors CMT supplies Colt with parts but Colt's TDP allows them to magically transform their parts into new parts and CMT is selling rejects to civilians and law enforcement. ONLY ON ARFCOM! The funny thing is at least half the guys that dog Bushmaster or other companies have never even had an issue with their parts. Heck for the difference in price you are paying for a Colt BCG nowdays you could buy a staking tool to do all your future CMT carriers correctly... but then you could not brag about your Colt TDP Tier one part! 
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 YOUNG MFG STANDARD FORMAT FULL AUTO CARRIER, HARD CHROMED. CARRIER, CAP SCREWS, AND GAS KEY DEGREASED. MATING SURFACES POLISHED AND CHECKED FOR TRUENESS. RED LOCTITE AND 40 IN-LB ON THE CAP SCREWS. KEY STAKED WITH THE MOACKS TOOL. WAIT TO SEE WHAT ELSE WE HAVE COMING. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
What does the Young BCG pictured above cost? |
Do you have proof that half the guys that dob Bushmaster or other companies have never even had an issues with their parts? How do you know that the people who post complaints didn't have actual problems? My dislike for CMT, Bushmaster and other brands is from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE from either products I've owned or products I've used or seen fail FIRST HAND. I'm not saying there aren't CMT and Bushmaster products that run just fine. I still own Bushmaster products but I no longer own any of Bushmaster BCG's or Barrels because I don't trust "batch" testing. If you're OK with that type of testing, MORE POWER TO YOU. Now why should I have to buy a tool and spend the time to fix a problem that a manufacture should correct in the first place? Why wouldn't someone just buy a LMT BCG instead if they didn't want to spend the money on a Colt BCG? Fact of the matter is, at the prices I pay, I'd have to save the difference from SEVEN BCG's (Colt vs. CMT) in order to pay for the new "low cost" MOACKS. With Colt or LMT BCG's, you don't have to worry about the staking. PERIOD. If a buyer doesn't want to pay for a Colt BCG, why wouldn't they just buy a LMT BCG for the same price as CMT unit???? Tell me this, does CMT/STAG Proof Load test EVERY BOLT? Do they MP test EVERY BOLT? Do they Shot Peen EVERY BOLT? We KNOW they don't properly stake every carrier. So what the fuck is the point of wasting your money on a CMT/STAG BCG? |
I have 2 bushmasters a 20hbar and a A1 shorty Both ran 100% with all different types of ammo and the stake job was done correct I did end up selling my 20incher and just the shorty upper I slap a lmt M4 upper on the bushy lower it happens to have a CMT bolt and carrier WITH A SHITTY stake job but runs 100% and very accurate I also have a COMPLETE LMT M4 defender 14.5 its bolt and carrier is LMT and has a MP on bolt its stake job is awesome and runs 100% and VERY accurate like most all LMT`s are I do like the way LMT makes there Carriers EVEN though bushmaster has never let me down |
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