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Posted: 8/3/2006 8:15:00 PM EDT
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Something that could be taken into combat (though thats unlikely for me). I'm looking to build a RECCE rifle here soon. Is "the 15min trigger job" pretty decent (or reliable?). I thought about doing that to my shooter rifle. |
Be glad you are not in the military then. Heaven forbid you were issued an SPR or SASS. Better off with the trigger with the most problems reported on this site! 
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We peons are tired of being stupid & need you to enlighten us. Since you clearly know the answer, what is the greatest trigger ever devised for this purpose & what makes it so much better than all the others? |
9/10 HSLD operators prefer the most expensive triggers possible. |
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The Rock River is a decent afforedable drop in trigger, but thats not what the guy is asking. He is asking which is the most reliable. The answer to that would not be the Rock River. DevL is correct, the RRA is probably the trigger that we've seen reported to fail the most. I've seen more than a few fail to reset, I've seen more than a few that turn into a single stage. Truth is I have seen issues with most of the triggers available. This is why many people suggest sticking with a standard trigger. It is the most reliable out there. However, some guns are set up in such a way that a better, lighter, crisper trigger is really an advantage. In these cases, the most USED, tested and trusted trigger is always the Knights Armament. They are probably the most widely used trigger in military guns. I've seen even these have problems, but the problems were always the user misadjusting the trigger. I have not heard of many problems with the Armalite trigger, but I have also never used one. The new Geissele trigger has been getting pretty good reviews, but it is new and has not been tested nearly as much as the Knights that I know of. A friend of mine (chromeluv here on the site) has one and while it has not failed, one of the pins would walk part way out, it never did or would come all the way out. He tells me he has heard of the same thing happening with a few of them. But again, the pin never seems to come all the way out. |
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Another reason why RRA 2-stage triggers have the most reported failures is because it is affordable and in widespread use in the civilian market. RRA rifles get these triggers, and many AR15 owners decide to switch over due to cost. I have had about a paltry 1200+ rd per AR15 using the RRA 2-stage w/o any problems. Usually, something wears and causes it to become a long single-stage trigger. Worst case is the disconnector pin falls out (can be replaced with a steel pin, ala Big-Bore's reinforced trigger). I am keeping a close eye on my RRA FCGs so if something does happen, I'll document it and get it replaced by RRA since I have the luxury of time (not quite the same thing in the field). The KAC, Giessellee, and others are well over $250 so it isn't as attractive to the mainstream Joe Sixpack AR15 shooter, and thus doesn't get as much coverage by the civilian market. It's hard enough to find QDRs in the military for standard issue equipment, let alone collecting enough info on all the problems experienced with the KAC 2-stage. |
I do. I have sold over 1800 of them with 4 returns. Similar in design as the RRA but much higher quality. For a battle rifle I prefer one with the happy switch, but for civvy work they are near bullet proof. The have been out of stock since June but I just got more in. Denny |
I agree with your points, but the RRA seems to fail due to excessive civilian usage, and most of the failures associated with the KAC are from hard military use, so trying to use this as any comparison is a moot point. Issue the RRA trigger and see how it fares against the KAC, then you'll have some data you can work with. |
| I purchased a Geissele service model trigger for my AR about 6 months ago. I have about 3000 rounds on it and it has been trouble free with the exception of the pin walking issue mentioned above. The pin never moves but it does protrude out of the side of the receiver a bit more than I would like. I would love to use some anti-walk pins but due to the special pin design anti-walk pins cannot be substituted for the original Geissele pins. Other than that the trigger has only gotten better and has been 100% reliable and is one of the best if not the best 2 stage on the market. |
who's they? the post above your's states that the geissele trigger pins protrude but i dont see anything about walking out. not nailing you or anything, i just returned to the site and havent been up to date on things. im considering one in the near future. right now i have not had any problems with my cmc triggers at all. |
I have two RRA 2-stage triggers in AR15s that see severe civilian usage (rapid-fire at the range). So far, I've put about 1200 rd of rapid semi auto fire through each FCG at the range. It was rapid enough to vibrate loose my Samson MRFS-C lower handguard (only thing holding it were the Magpul XT covers). I didn't see a need for full auto because the RRA's reset and 3.5 lb second stage pretty much let me bumpfire w/o actually bumpfiring. I was trying (on purpose) to see if it would wear out into a single stage or if the disconnector pin would fall out. This isn't a good sampling size, and it is not representative of all RRA triggers, but it's first-hand info for my usage. If the RRA 2-stage does break/malfunction, they'll fix it (as in RRA). FWiW the RRA hammers that came from Brownells looked like someone took a file to a few of the engagement points. Perhaps RRA has revised their design to prevent the single stage problem? Regardless, I will never go back to the stock 7-8 lb single stage unless it is for a duty rifle. I could buy about 3 RRA 2-stage triggers for the price of one giesselle. |
i like my as trigger, i have put 3000 rounds through my lower since having it installed. No light primer strikes. The trigger pull is not as light as i would have liked. Feels like a good solid 3.5-4 lbs trigger but it's crisp and easy to install. My jewell on the other hand, is nice but i do have some issues with light primer strikes using ammo that has hard primers. And it is a little weird to install the first time around. |
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I was about to get the AS single-stage but the RRA was cheaper. Does the AS use standard FCG springs? The RRA has a lighter hammer and I was concerned about light primer strikes. It does use the standard weight FCG springs, and I've never had a LP strike on Wolf primers. |
I have been running one for about 5 years with no problems since i got it properly adjusted. I also tried the CMC single stage/curved. It started doubling after about 15 months of use and has been returned. |
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As mentioned above, my pins would protrude. Did they protrude alot? No. Did they protrude enough that I installed the KNS pins. Yeah.... It is an amazing trigger though. For precision work, I really enjoy firing it. I have finger screwed with New-Arguy's guns, and he has alot. And alot of variety of triggers (LMT, KAC, RRA, and so on...) The KAC is very nice, the only *noticeable* difference between the triggers when dry firing is that the Geisselle breaks considerably cleaner than the KAC. the KAC had just a tiny amount of travel that I could feel... YMMV, this is only a comparison between mine and Neil's KAC trigger, which alone are 1/insert stupid # here of the triggers made |
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I have a JP trigger that I have been competing in 3 Gun for over 5 years. I have lost count in the number of thousands of rounds through it but it is surely well over 5K. This Trigger/Hammer has been in a Colt HBAR and now in a Bushmaster carbine. I have never experienced a problem with it, no light strikes etc. It still breaks at 2.25 lbs crisp. I have a Jewell in my Service Rifle, like it a lot but I don't have enough rounds through it commit on. I just ordered another JP last Monday. Good Luck Bill |
You can remove the creep from the KAC with a minor adjustment. Did the Geiselle have a shorter take up or reset, at all? |
My KAC's second stage has absolutely NO creep in it. Smooth light pull through the first stage to the second stage it breaking crisp like a thin glass rod. I've set up several KACs and all of them were pretty much like this after a bit of tweaking. Mine was the first I ever set up and took over half an hour, but I finally got right. The only Geisselle trigger I ever tried was not as crisp, but I don't attribute that to the trigger itself, but the way it was adjusted by the person who owned it. |
| i run a jp on my match .308 ar. i thought it was the shit until i was too cheap to put one in my beowulf/.223. i polished the sear, removed a little from the bottem of the hammer, and polished it and the notch. put jp trigger springs in. no travel. breaks like a .45. stock dpms trigger/hammer. seems around 5lbs. time will tell, hopefully it wont start doublefiring. just did it today, with a dremel sanding bit and wire brush bit. feels good though. |
If you're going to polish surfaces, either a fine wetstone with oil or a dremel with a polish bit and some Flitz... The sanding bit will probably remove too much material and may destroy any heat treatment to that area. |
| Both RRA 2-stage triggers do not have any creep in the 2nd stage. You feel the start of the 2nd stage and if you exceed 3.5 lbf, the hammer releases. I can't say it's "match quality" but I have no complaints. I run KNS anti-rotation pins (standard 0.154" sized) as well. I know how markm feels about them, but the pins have stayed put for over 2000 rd. |
I was lucky to get mine by then Ive only got a little over 1000rds fired so its almost broken in other than that I do like the LMT 2 stage |
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