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Posted: 5/27/2004 12:08:57 AM EDT
| I have a Daniel Defense FF Rail mounted on my 16" upper, and my Eotech 552 keeps hitting the delta ring. I like to have my Eotech further out on my receiver but with it hitting the delta ring, it's not a secure (or straight) mount. Anyone else had this problem also? TIA Jim |
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As the top rail of DD FF railed forend has rails up top at the same level as the standard flat-top, why not just shift the EOTech forward to the handguard portion instead of the receiver???? To tell the truth, I though the DD FF forend replaced the standard Delta ring when mounted. See second pic down AFTER picking "products" then "M4FF Rails" here for example of what I'm referring to: www.danieldefense.com/ Mike |
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Oh boy...I'd like to get some more info on this. I plan to get a DD 7.0 and use a Eotech 552 and assumed (wrongly I guess) that I would be able to straddle the 552 over the upper rail and DD rail (as is done on the third gun in Wes1's photo)? Does anybody from DD hang out here or does anybody have a good contact for DD? I would like to know if Wes1 is correct and the newer style retainer fixes the issue and if so, will DD offer free replacements? Man, every time I think I've got my M4 all figured out, I run into a new snag 
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| The EO Tech hits the left side of the ring.I removed the scope from my SPR and tried it with same results.I also tried all three EO Techs and all three hit the ring.So I moved (tighten)the ring slightly, with no change.All three EO Techs work on the newer ring.(9.0)and yes the rails are in perfect alignment with the receiver.I am thinking about getting a new style ring.Please let me know more info. |
The KAC RAS/RIS is NOT a stable platform to mount optics (which is what you might be talking about). The KAC and DD FF tubes are perfect for mounting an optic on.... C4 |
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As the owner of a pair of self-installed DD rails, I can tell you that they are plenty secure and strong enough to mount optics to. If you have an older locknut that interferes with your optics, I would contact DD and see if you can get one of the new locknuts. -Troy |
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UPDATE I called DD this afternoon and talked to Lynn about the problem with the EOTech touching the Cam ring, she told me a tech would call me back.10 minutes later, Josh called I explained my problem was only on my early production rails.He is sending me new cam rings at no cost. KUDOS to Daniel Defense for the great customer service !!!!!!!! I will post more pics, once I receive the new style cam rings. |
Lynn is a great and so is their military sales rep (Josh). .. C4 |
Troy, Do you have any tips you'd like to share with us on installing one? I'm getting ready to do-it-myself so I'd appreciate it if you had any ideas. Special tools? I picked up a 4lb hammer to aid in removing the taper pins, and I've already got all the tools needed for standard barrel changes. Thanks, Forest |
The only hard part is getting those damn taper pins out, but I found something that made it a lot easier. Unfortunately, I didn't discover this little trick until AFTER I'd removed much of the finish from the FSB around the pins due to punch slipage.  First, get yourself a good, forged, tapered "nail set" punch. Second, get yourself a 4mm socket from a socket set. This will be bottlenecked, and the 4mm hex hole is just the right size to get around the fat end of a taper pin. Place the socket fat-end down on something very solid (cement at least, but I have a small anvil), and then fit the fat end of the taper pin into the hole on top (you'll want/need an assistant to hold the upper for you). Then, whack on the pin with your hammer and punch. I used a short-handled 3lb sledge. Using the socket, you focus the backforce onto the FSB around the outside of the pin, and it makes the pin much easier to get out. It also gives you some stand-off room to get around the handguard cap. Anyway, once you get the pins out, everything else is a snap. The whole FSB slides off with the gas tube as a unit, so no messing with the gas tube. Remove the old barrel with your barrel wrench and receiver blocks, and remove the old barrel nut/delta ring/spring assembly. Slide the DD barrel nut/lock nut assembly on the barrel and tighten it up. I found that in order to get proper alignment, I had to turn the nut a hair past the center of the gas tube hole on all three uppers I've done (I did a FF RAS for someone else a while back). YMMV here. Now, pop the alignment pins in place in the barrel nut, slide the railed tube on, and tighten up the lock ring with a strap wrench while your assistant holds the tube straight and even with the receiver. There is a small amount of rotational play before the lock ring is tight, so you might be a bit off the first try. I had to slightly adjust the barrel nut on the first two before I figured out to go a bit past center on them. Once you're totally happy with the handguard placement, slide the FSB back on and whack the pins back in place. If you look close, you can see the super-duper high-speed, low-drag wear marks on the FSB, which you can only get by being a bad-ass field commando (or at least, that's what I'm telling people until I get them reparked!  ).  -Troy |
I'm certainly no "Troy" in this department, but I did just install my DD 9.0 myself... The hardest part by FAR for me (since I'm an obsessed perfectionist in this area) was to get the DD top rail PERFECTLY aligned with the flat-top rail. Since it doesn't "twist" on like the less expensive forends, you have to make sure that your barrel nut is ABSOLUTELY LINED UP EXACTLY with the gas tube hole before you put in the indexing pins and install the forend. I would tighten, remove from action block, look down barrel into nut through gas tube hole to make sure that the same amount of material from the "X" hole showed on each side of the gas tube hole. After several tries, I finally got it right to my satisfaction. I actually did go so far as to put the forend on, sight down the flat-top, see that it was slightly off, then remove the whole thing and try again. As far as the taper pins go, I must have had exceptional luck there... I just used a 1/8" black coated Craftsman punch from Sears. I removed and installed the FSB twice in fact, with absolutly NO marring to the FSB or the pins. I got a piece of scrap "shelf" wood, about 1/2" thick and maybe 6"x9" in size. Then I took a small corner brace, screwed one end into the wood, and with a piece of innertube over the FSB, I used a hammer to bend the brace over the FSB to hold it. I slid out the FSB and put a smaller diameter piece of innertube over the brace as well. Then I just use a thin book under the upper to keep it all flat and hammer away. About the only "trick" I use is that I position the punch with my fingers VERY low near the FSB, and hit it ONCE. Then I reposition and hit it ONCE again. I keep doing this one at a time thing until the taper pin is farther out and the holes in the FSB act to hold the punch in place. I used a 16oz ball peen hammer.  Just a thought here, but those "nail punches" are hardened STEEL, so I'd imagine they'd be quite a finish scratcher if you weren't careful. |
Search is back and here is a thread... ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=179079 I like the looks of the DD units. I am just curious as to whether or not there is anything that would make them more stable than a FFRAS, which these posters seemed to say was not a stable optics platform. I am NOT bashing the DD units or the KAC FFRAS, just curious as I would like to pick one up for another project and I see conflicting views on forward mounting optics on these systems. Thanks. |
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In a related thread, a couple of the folks had problems because they hadn't tightened the lockring up tight enough. At some point, someone had told them not to tighten it down very much, but it must be quite tight. You have to have a strap wrench to do this, and once it's tight, there's no problems with mounting optics. No difference between the FF-RAS and DD rails in this regard. -Troy |
Ask Underdog75.
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