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Posted: 10/3/2016 9:13:24 AM EDT
| So I have been researching this but I cannot find much information on the topic. I know switching from a delta ring style hand-guard to a free float increases barrel harmonics this improving accuracy, but what about length? Let's say it's a 20 inch barrel with 2inches added for muzzle device, can it be too long? Say a 15 inch vs the noveske 16.7inch vs the Midwest 18inch? They are all held on by the same barrel nut/screws but will that added length bend with iron sights or propped against a bipod affecting accuracy negatively? |
| The longer the rail, the more chance for movement at the muzzle end. Doesn't affect the accuracy of the gun at all, but if you are using a bipod and iron sights at the end of a 15" rail, your poi might shift a little. I had a Samson evo 15" that I could get some significant movement out of at the far end, and my friends MI was worse. Suppose it depends on the rail and how it is attached. My 12" PRI rails don't seem to move at all. |
| Free floating increases the barrels accuracy potential by removing the handguard and sling loading affects. Putting a flip up front sight on a free float handguard will show significant POI/POA shift. If you want accurate iron sight shooting, the front sight must be mounted to the barrel. |
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Try match grade ammo first. If you want better accuracy you need better bullets.
A free float barrel eliminates torque being applied to the barrel by moving your sling attachment point off the front sight base and onto the float tube. This allows bipods, sling tension and grip tension to have zero effect on barrel harmonics by removing any stresses that could have contributed to it. For people shooting inside 200 yards and not involved in competition that requires the use of a sling from various positions, a float tube will show little if any value on target. This is especially true if your shooting ball ammo (M193 or m855) which isn't capable of fine accuracy anyway. Shooting an AR off a bench to see how it groups applies zero pressure to the barrel even when using standard issue stocks. I prefer shorter float tubes. They apply less torque to the barrel nut because they are shorter and I think the longer one's weight is problematic. My arm length and overall stature works best with 9" 10" or 11" free float tubes on carbine or mid-gassed rifles. I run 12" on rifle gassed sticks. I understand that some people like how the long float tubes look, especially that the 16" barrel barely peaks out past end. This is hardly a reason to buy one IMO weighing what they do. A free float tube will not make a rack grade rifle barrel one iota better, match grade ammo may surprise you. |
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The longer the rail, the more chance for movement at the muzzle end. Doesn't affect the accuracy of the gun at all, but if you are using a bipod and iron sights at the end of a 15" rail, your poi might shift a little. I had a Samson evo 15" that I could get some significant movement out of at the far end, and my friends MI was worse. Suppose it depends on the rail and how it is attached. My 12" PRI rails don't seem to move at all. Any rail that is mounted properly should show zero discernable movement. I would revisit the attachment point on the barrel nut to see why it doesn't lock up tight. |
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Any rail that is mounted properly should show zero discernable movement. I would revisit the attachment point on the barrel nut to see why it doesn't lock up tight. Quoted:
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The longer the rail, the more chance for movement at the muzzle end. Doesn't affect the accuracy of the gun at all, but if you are using a bipod and iron sights at the end of a 15" rail, your poi might shift a little. I had a Samson evo 15" that I could get some significant movement out of at the far end, and my friends MI was worse. Suppose it depends on the rail and how it is attached. My 12" PRI rails don't seem to move at all. Any rail that is mounted properly should show zero discernable movement. I would revisit the attachment point on the barrel nut to see why it doesn't lock up tight. Not true. Many free float rails can have a substantial shift induced by pushing on the end of the rail. It's especially prominent with long tubes on short barrel nuts. There are systems that mitigate this such as the Geissele SMR and ALG series with their longer barrel nuts. |
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Not true. Many free float rails can have a substantial shift induced by pushing on the end of the rail. It's especially prominent with long tubes on short barrel nuts. There are systems that mitigate this such as the Geissele SMR and ALG series with their longer barrel nuts. Quoted:
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The longer the rail, the more chance for movement at the muzzle end. Doesn't affect the accuracy of the gun at all, but if you are using a bipod and iron sights at the end of a 15" rail, your poi might shift a little. I had a Samson evo 15" that I could get some significant movement out of at the far end, and my friends MI was worse. Suppose it depends on the rail and how it is attached. My 12" PRI rails don't seem to move at all. Any rail that is mounted properly should show zero discernable movement. I would revisit the attachment point on the barrel nut to see why it doesn't lock up tight. Not true. Many free float rails can have a substantial shift induced by pushing on the end of the rail. It's especially prominent with long tubes on short barrel nuts. There are systems that mitigate this such as the Geissele SMR and ALG series with their longer barrel nuts. Lol never mind lol, reading is important.  NateAB83 is correct
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Any rail that is mounted properly should show zero discernable movement. I would revisit the attachment point on the barrel nut to see why it doesn't lock up tight. Quoted:
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The longer the rail, the more chance for movement at the muzzle end. Doesn't affect the accuracy of the gun at all, but if you are using a bipod and iron sights at the end of a 15" rail, your poi might shift a little. I had a Samson evo 15" that I could get some significant movement out of at the far end, and my friends MI was worse. Suppose it depends on the rail and how it is attached. My 12" PRI rails don't seem to move at all. Any rail that is mounted properly should show zero discernable movement. I would revisit the attachment point on the barrel nut to see why it doesn't lock up tight. A 15" cylinder of thin aluminum...as modern popular lightweight rail trend dictates...isn't the most solid thing. Take your gun by the muzzle. Put your finger around the barrel, your thumb around the rail, and give it a little squeeze. Most will have some movement. If you aren't using a rail mounted sight, or shooting for small groups past 100yds, you probably won't notice. Just posting an observation because it seemed relevant to the OP. |
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Free floating increases the barrels accuracy potential by removing the handguard and sling loading affects. Putting a flip up front sight on a free float handguard will show significant POI/POA shift. If you want accurate iron sight shooting, the front sight must be mounted to the barrel. putting additional sights on a freely-floated handguard are typically for short range use the effect is negligible |
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So I have been researching this but I cannot find much information on the topic. I know switching from a delta ring style hand-guard to a free float increases barrel harmonics this improving accuracy, but what about length? Let's say it's a 20 inch barrel with 2inches added for muzzle device, can it be too long? Say a 15 inch vs the noveske 16.7inch vs the Midwest 18inch? They are all held on by the same barrel nut/screws but will that added length bend with iron sights or propped against a bipod affecting accuracy negatively? if you want to use irons exclusively I would recommend a front sight post that is attached to the barrel especially if you choose to use a sling or a bipod for adding stability during shooting |
| Common sense told me it would shift a little but sometimes things arnt always what they appear. This was a question more towards my build still. It'll be an 18inch barrel and I have always liked the look of the handguard coming out to the muzzle device but since I plan to try competition as well as long(ish) distance just for the skill I didn't want to sacrifice accuracy just because it looks cool. I want something that's going to function the way I need it to, so I will probably just stick with the 15inch free float |
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Here's a question if you don't mind me asking.
If you have a 14" barrel with a 12" FF rail. Rail mounted irons and say a laser, wouldn't the shift of the rail(which happens even on FF rails) have a detrimental effect on POA/POI of both the irons and laser? If so wouldn't it be ideal to have the irons mounted to the barrel with the rail being FF so that any shift in the rail doesn't have any effect on POA/POI? However wouldn't lasers still be effected? |
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1- I know switching from a delta ring style hand-guard to a free float increases barrel harmonics this improving accuracy, but what about length? 2- Let's say it's a 20 inch barrel with 2inches added for muzzle device, can it be too long? 3- Say a 15 inch vs the noveske 16.7inch vs the Midwest 18inch? 4- They are all held on by the same barrel nut/screws but will that added length bend with iron sights or propped against a bipod affecting accuracy negatively? 1. Let us first remember that a FF barrel allows for the possibility of more accuracy, but it does not inherently create a more accurate barrel. The idea isn't to improve barrel harmonics, as much as it is to decrease external barrel pressures. Sling pressure and resting the barrel of non-FF handguards are real issues that come into play with reduced rounds on target. 2. Too long is a relative term, it is going to depend on what you are looking to achieve, with all things being equal a longer rail allows more flex. 3. You are asking about apples and oranges, and without doing structural or flex testing you won't find an answer. They aren't the same. 4. They are not held on by the same barrel nut and screws, and the barrel nut is a matter that comes into play, but is only a portion. Regarding the second part of this, of course iron sights are affected by increased flex in a rail. However, a bipod doesn't matter in the least. Fire away with more questions and I'll answer when I can. |
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an inconsistently loaded bipod can produce vertical stringing on an irons-only rifle Quoted:
Quoted:... a bipod doesn't matter in the least. an inconsistently loaded bipod can produce vertical stringing on an irons-only rifle He's talking about a FF mounted bipod. |
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Stickman!
1. I know there is no magic snake oil to increase accuracy so I'm not arguing this fact! But the FF does provide the opportunity for enhanced accuracy with the proper technique and equipment 2. What I meant was beyond relative term, is there a point where length starts to negatively affect accuracy because there becomes excessive flexing of the handguard. I didn't mean what's too long for you (I am 6ft 5 with long arms, could probably comfortably hold the 18" hanguard but if it's gonna potentially bump the barrel it's not worth it) but again what's the length it starts to have negative effects 3. I know it's apples to oranges but only because I couldn't use one type of handguard to cover all three. The Midwest SP has a 15" and a 18" and Noveske is the only "name" brand 16.7" I have found. So I was more or less just talking length vs manufacturer. 4. I realize different manufacturers use different barrel nuts. However I had assumed (and I may very well be wrong) if it's say a Midwest SP 12" it's going to use the same barrel nut as the 15", 18", and even 7" Thank you for your help so far! This is my first semi auto that isn't a handgun so it's been interesting researching this. There are so many schools of thought on everything it's hard to weed out fact from paid endorsement |
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Common sense told me it would shift a little but sometimes things arnt always what they appear. This was a question more towards my build still. It'll be an 18inch barrel and I have always liked the look of the handguard coming out to the muzzle device but since I plan to try competition as well as long(ish) distance just for the skill I didn't want to sacrifice accuracy just because it looks cool. I want something that's going to function the way I need it to, so I will probably just stick with the 15inch free float For competition use (3gun etc), for tac scope division, back up irons mounted to the FF is fine. For Limited division where you will be using iron sights, then a front sighted mounted to the barrel is an absolute requirement. Regardless of barrel length (16, 18 etc) use a 15" handguard and get to shooting. Any of the modern quality FF forearm makers will not have issues with the handguard touching the barrel under normal use. Just because you can force flex the handguard doesn't mean it will do that to you on a stage. At matches you would be resting the barrel on barricades, and when you do you wont be hitting things accurately. |
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an inconsistently loaded bipod can produce vertical stringing on an irons-only rifle Quoted:
Quoted:... a bipod doesn't matter in the least. an inconsistently loaded bipod can produce vertical stringing on an irons-only rifle Not in the context we are discussing here. If someone wants to bring in loads of external variables the original question no longer has the same context and simply becomes another arfcom travesty thread in the tech section. |
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Stickman! 1. I know there is no magic snake oil to increase accuracy so I'm not arguing this fact! But the FF does provide the opportunity for enhanced accuracy with the proper technique and equipment 2. What I meant was beyond relative term, is there a point where length starts to negatively affect accuracy because there becomes excessive flexing of the handguard. I didn't mean what's too long for you (I am 6ft 5 with long arms, could probably comfortably hold the 18" hanguard but if it's gonna potentially bump the barrel it's not worth it) but again what's the length it starts to have negative effects 3. I know it's apples to oranges but only because I couldn't use one type of handguard to cover all three. The Midwest SP has a 15" and a 18" and Noveske is the only "name" brand 16.7" I have found. So I was more or less just talking length vs manufacturer. 4. I realize different manufacturers use different barrel nuts. However I had assumed (and I may very well be wrong) if it's say a Midwest SP 12" it's going to use the same barrel nut as the 15", 18", and even 7" Thank you for your help so far! This is my first semi auto that isn't a handgun so it's been interesting researching this. There are so many schools of thought on everything it's hard to weed out fact from paid endorsement 1. Yes, it absolutely does allow for greater potential accuracy by elimination of certain variables. 2. If you only plan on shooting with iron sights, you will see diminishing returns, and won't mount your iron sight at the end anyway. There become a sweet spot. However, very few people get into the AR15 planning to use iron sights only, and if you are, you are better served by getting it mounted to your barrel. There is no magic length which shows where a rail flexing creates issue. It is a variable based on needs and how the item is actually being used. 3. If we don't deal with absolutes which we can deal with, it all falls apart quickly. Using the idea of variable length handguards from the same manufacturer certainly makes more sense, even if the exact length doesn't come into play. 4. Most of the time a company uses the same barrel nut for the same series of rails. 5. Without listing what your planned use is, and what your barrel length and some other things are, you are kinda of limiting some of your replies or ways people can help you out with info. Throw that info into the mix and lets hear your next list of questions. 
There are indeed a lot of schools of thought, but most modern ones are the same. That doesn't mean you are going to get correct info from all the people who post here. There are plenty of people who post and pose as experts, and don't own or even shoot an AR15. There are also many who post here based on what they have heard on the internet, but don't understand the concept, limitations, or value. Every once in awhile I post my background to give people an idea who I am, or why I give input. I am prior MIL, and a city cop, TL, firearm instructor, multiplatform armorer, tactics instructor as well as a bunch of other stuff. I am able to testify as an expert if needed in court, and have a solid real world background, not just clearing thousands of buildings and raids, but in weapon and equipment testing both for GOV functions and the industry. Aside from that, writing for multiple magazines and doing weapon photography keeps me linked pretty well with the industry. Many people think I own Rainier Arms, I do not. The owner is a good friend, and I help him out by answering question people have on the board. It isn't anything he pays me to do, as real friendship doesn't work that way. You also won't see me push RA over other companies. Buy what you want, from who you want. I answer questions and try to help people out regardless. |
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Stickman,
So since you've pretty much answered the others to the point I have nothing left to say but thanks I'm gonna narrow it down to these 2. It'll actually have optics on the gun, the irons will be offset backups but it was an example of weight at the end of an extended free float tube. I never really had the intention of shooting pure irons. 5. Being a new user I am limited to the amount of charecters I can put per post (understandable but annoying and why I'm not quoting you) plus I was riding the L this morning in Chicago and that's just not an ar friendly city in the least bit! So I just kept it short and sweet. In a nut shell my gun is (minus every detail) a Anderson lower with Geiselle DMR two stage and magpul prs stock. The upper is also Anderson with a SAA nickel boron franken bolt. The parts I intend to get are a black hole weaponry 18" rifle length gas system h-bar barrel with a precision armament AFAB muzzle device. The intent is just a smooth shooting rifle comfortable in my arms, but has the extra length for increased accuracy but not so long that if I did use it for home defense or CQC match I won't bang a super long long barrel against everything in my path. I guess I want something that's geared more towards distance and accuracy while still maintaining close fast paced capabilities Your credentials are more than I expected! However you really did break down my original questions so I'm not surprised |
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Exactly, some people seem to forget there is more than one way to skin a cat. Quoted:
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Bending the rail won't affect the barrel but it will move a rail mounted front sight. That's why the HK416A5 has a barrel mounted flip sight. Exactly, some people seem to forget there is more than one way to skin a cat. How come the trend has been to move away from barrel mounted irons to full length FF handguards with rail mounted irons? Wouldn't shorter FF handguards, or handguards with a cut out for a barrel mounted iron be a more ideal solution? |
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What matters more, an ergonomic long section of rail with uninterrupted top space or accuracy with your backup sights? Keep in mind that most guys who do this shit in the military and can choose, don't even have backup sights. That's what the fuck I've been saying reading all these posts on this site over the years. Waste of money/weight on a rifle with optic. |
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Not in the context we are discussing here. If someone wants to bring in loads of external variables the original question no longer has the same context and simply becomes another arfcom travesty thread in the tech section. Quoted:
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Quoted:... a bipod doesn't matter in the least. an inconsistently loaded bipod can produce vertical stringing on an irons-only rifle Not in the context we are discussing here. If someone wants to bring in loads of external variables the original question no longer has the same context and simply becomes another arfcom travesty thread in the tech section. My remark wasn't on topic? I thought he wanted to know about how the length of a handguard effected performance capability If you still disagree, please IM me, I value and respect your opinions |
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That's what the fuck I've been saying reading all these posts on this site over the years. Waste of money/weight on a rifle with optic. Quoted:
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What matters more, an ergonomic long section of rail with uninterrupted top space or accuracy with your backup sights? Keep in mind that most guys who do this shit in the military and can choose, don't even have backup sights. That's what the fuck I've been saying reading all these posts on this site over the years. Waste of money/weight on a rifle with optic. Fixed sights on rifles with win points for me. In case they aren't adjusted right for ambient lighting. Etched reticles don't need irons to match. |
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My remark wasn't on topic? I thought he wanted to know about how the length of a handguard effected performance capability If you still disagree, please IM me, I value and respect your opinions Quoted:
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Quoted:... a bipod doesn't matter in the least. an inconsistently loaded bipod can produce vertical stringing on an irons-only rifle Not in the context we are discussing here. If someone wants to bring in loads of external variables the original question no longer has the same context and simply becomes another arfcom travesty thread in the tech section. My remark wasn't on topic? I thought he wanted to know about how the length of a handguard effected performance capability If you still disagree, please IM me, I value and respect your opinions My remark wasn't meant as an insult or slight towards you in the least, especially as I consider you one of the good ones on this site. I totally agree that loading your bipod different ways can result in an unhappy group. However in strictly the mechanical context, whether you are loading variations of pounds on a FF handguard, if everything else is the same, the group should not change. Now it is different if you put a shooter behind the weapon and they start to load their bipod difference each time, much as in the say way they breathe different each time. If the handguard is not FF, there is most certainly an issue as pressure is being placed on the barrel. I think you and I might be saying the same two things.
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How come the trend has been to move away from barrel mounted irons to full length FF handguards with rail mounted irons? Wouldn't shorter FF handguards, or handguards with a cut out for a barrel mounted iron be a more ideal solution? Quoted:
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Bending the rail won't affect the barrel but it will move a rail mounted front sight. That's why the HK416A5 has a barrel mounted flip sight. Exactly, some people seem to forget there is more than one way to skin a cat. How come the trend has been to move away from barrel mounted irons to full length FF handguards with rail mounted irons? Wouldn't shorter FF handguards, or handguards with a cut out for a barrel mounted iron be a more ideal solution? With the popularity of the AR15 as a "build it yourself" platform, manufacturers offer what consumers want... That being easy installation of set screw gas blocks and clamp on gas blocks. The trend is likely a market driven trend and has nothing to do with the positive performance aspect of a properly mounted sight as most shooters won't he affected by the minute disadvantages of a rail mounted iron sight... especially in a optic driven market. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Stickman, So since you've pretty much answered the others to the point I have nothing left to say but thanks I'm gonna narrow it down to these 2. It'll actually have optics on the gun, the irons will be offset backups but it was an example of weight at the end of an extended free float tube. I never really had the intention of shooting pure irons. 5. Being a new user I am limited to the amount of charecters I can put per post (understandable but annoying and why I'm not quoting you) plus I was riding the L this morning in Chicago and that's just not an ar friendly city in the least bit! So I just kept it short and sweet. In a nut shell my gun is (minus every detail) a Anderson lower with Geiselle DMR two stage and magpul prs stock. The upper is also Anderson with a SAA nickel boron franken bolt. The parts I intend to get are a black hole weaponry 18" rifle length gas system h-bar barrel with a precision armament AFAB muzzle device. The intent is just a smooth shooting rifle comfortable in my arms, but has the extra length for increased accuracy but not so long that if I did use it for home defense or CQC match I won't bang a super long long barrel against everything in my path. I guess I want something that's geared more towards distance and accuracy while still maintaining close fast paced capabilities Your credentials are more than I expected! However you really did break down my original questions so I'm not surprised 2. Optics on the weapon meaning scope, or meaning a red dot optic? With a PRS stock, I am going to assume you mean scope, but I know what assumptions get me so I figured I would double check. The tube weight won't flex the tube enough to make a difference, I wouldn't worry about that. Can it shift point of aim (POA) when put on a bipod and pressed into the ground, or sideways against a tree? Sure it can, no question about it. However, your optic won't change at all. While your sights might change, you aren't going to see enough of a difference to matter with what we are talking about. Inside a house, there won't be a difference in practical terms at all. At 100 yards, you would still be hitting a man sized target with your irons assuming you can see him, though you might be off by a few inches on your point of impact (POI). 5. Black Hole makes a nice barrel, or at least the SS one that I had was exceedingly nice, but that was awhile back. I have no reason to think they are different now, but we don't hear a lot about their barrels on this board regarding accuracy. HOWEVER, you appear to have fallen into that little trap of barrel length increasing accuracy, and that just isn't true. What is true is that an 18" barrel will have a tad more velocity than a 16" (16" is pretty standard in barrel lengths). Velocity starts making a difference in longer distances, but we have SF guys running around engaging hadji (in a non racist or offensive way, I mean it in the scumbag terrorist way) at 400-600 yards on a fairly regular basis with a 10.3" barrel. You probably aren't delivering the wrath of God (I hope not on the L train), but you might find a 16" is going to work just as well for you. If you love the 18", have at it, it is just one more thing to think about. Below is an 18" blaster that I just threw together for personal use, the optic is a fixed 3X that I'm testing. Below that, is a 16" with another optic I'm testing. Lets take a look at it for a minute and play critic, because even though this isn't my "go to" gun by any stretch, I would have no problems using it for defense..... or would I? Reliability isn't a problem with this setup, and that is the most important thing. Cheap parts tend to have looser specs, so that is something you are going to want to make sure is squared away. Get a few hundred rounds through your blaster before you consider it "functional". This little piggy is using a 3X scope, which means that it gives nice medium magnification, and is good for outside use, but it isn't going to win indoor shooting contests. However since it has good illumination, I can superimpose the dot over a threat. Sounds good right? In theory that works well, I can tell you from a practical experience that in close you tend to point shoot anyway. Train a lot for up close work and you can change a lot of things, but point shooting isn't exactly a bad thing if you are decent at it. You will want to set up some paper plates from 20 or so feet away and see if you can point shoot them. We can see there are back up sights on this, but they are not offset! That means they won't be doing much in the event of an optic failure, though I can take the mount off with a knife, quarter, or other common implement. Again, if the devil jumps up close and personal, I'm still going to put rounds into him. Offset sights would make a difference, but this is a test configuration designed for this optic, so I'm not worried about it. So what becomes the bad part about this setup? Easy, there isn't a light mounted to it. You don't need the most high speed light in the world, but without a light, you are going to be sucking hard clearing a building, and mean that night or day. I know some people will say to hold a light in your hand, but those tend to be the stupid people who don't know what they are talking about. The AR15, especially in the configuration you are talking about is a two handed weapon. You want a light mounted. Period. 
Now lets make fun of this 16", or at least talk about what makes it good or bad for playing range and home defense. In this case, the optic is a 1-6, and while that might not be the utmost in long range shooting, it DOES make for a very functional all around general purpose (GP) optic. Notice where the light is placed? It is far enough out front that when I turn it on, I don't have a giant shadow off the barrel hiding everything off to one side. While the barrel shadowing isn't the end of the world, in a real world event, many people start to fixate on the barrel shadow because it is the dark area inside a circle of light. Remember that the eye wants to automatically center things which are in a circle.... just like our sights and scope. The longer the barrel, or to be more concise, the farther back the light from the barrel end, the more shadow which is visible. It is NOT the end of the world, but if you know about it a head of time, it allows you to plan accordingly. There are very nice folding sights on this weapon which can't get accessed either, and for the same reason as the above 18" beast. In this case, the optic performs well at 1X, and while it might not be as good as an Aimpoint, I would have no issues clearing a house with it. Do you notice what is on the end of both of these weapons? A simple, humble little A2 muzzle device. Do I have drawers full of funky cool muzzle devices I could have used at the Stick compound? Yes, I certainly do, but the simple A2 does a pretty darned good job by itself. I would put my money into a good BCG (Bolt Carrier Group) and barrel long before I went with a cool muzzle device. 
Hopefully there aren't too many typos, and most of this makes some sense for you. Sometimes it is the questions we didn't ask, or hadn't though of that become the most important. In other cases, it is nice to read something just to see what we agree or disagree with, or what we had already thought of. |
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What matters more, an ergonomic long section of rail with uninterrupted top space or accuracy with your backup sights? Keep in mind that most guys who do this shit in the military and can choose, don't even have backup sights. Quoted:
What matters more, an ergonomic long section of rail with uninterrupted top space or accuracy with your backup sights? Keep in mind that most guys who do this shit in the military and can choose, don't even have backup sights. While running an EOtech 553, which Arfcom assures me are unreliable optics that fail often, yet those who can choose often feel 553s are durable enough to not need any form of backup. Quoted:
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How come the trend has been to move away from barrel mounted irons to full length FF handguards with rail mounted irons? It is cheaper in many cases, it also allows an uncluttered view through an optic. Makes sense, thanks. |
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2. I did mean scope by optic, that however is another beast in and of itself I havnt researched all that much. I understand the basic concept of lenses, I shoot film photography still and use lenses from 16mm fisheye all the way to 1000mm mirror lenses. I know it's different for rifles, since I'm not 100% sure of the final build I want to get rounds through it to make sure it works with no gas, feed, or extraction issues. Depending on the final optic I may not need or even want the backup irons, I really hate dead weight equipment and every ounce counts after a hour of standing and shooting.
5. For 18" 1:8 threaded barrels the BHW was the best one I could find based on reviews, other forum posts, and an ex coworker has one but he shoots maybe once a year, so I don't feel that barrel is really broken in yet. I've really only been researching this platform since it had more velocity than the 16" but wasn't as long as the 20" (seemed like a good in betweener). While I really doubt I will ever have the skill to place a "kill shot" in a man sized target with that short of a barrel if you have any suggestions on 16" barrels worth looking at I am open for suggestions. I havnt shot an AR platform enough to notice the difference in barrel lengths. I figured since it was a new build I would just do the longer barrel and cut out the guesswork. It's gonna be a 2 post reply, so give me a moment please! |
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As for cheap parts, part of why I have been dragging this build on is to make sure I'm not buying cheap parts. The buffer is a standard rifle buffer but I got the tub flatwire spring. Without shooting the gun I won't know if it's overkill or if I need to change that so I held off on that, then the upper receiver came assembled (cheap stock dust cover, forward assist, and charging handle) I plan to swap the charging handle later but again it isn't something I feel the need to change until the gun is firing. Everything else from the ergo grip, mag release, safety selector, takedown/pivot pins etc... I researched and found good parts I am satisfied with at the moment. Things may change once I start firing the gun but instead of buying a bunch of parts I researched and touched as much as I could before buying.
Next you mention light! Something I was originally against (again, not a fan of clutter or dead weight) I now see not only a purpose for but how placent on the barrel is going to affect my view. Again, something I'm gonna dig deeper into later. While I am not against the A2, in a side by side comparison between the two (it was done on a 16" carbine length system 55g ammo) it was a trifecta of pleasant results. Increased flash suppression, decrease in felt recoil, and even decreased overall Db of the blast. It's the only muzzle device I've found that I've kind of fallen in love with. There are 100s out there and I've maybe watched reviews of 150 and checked out 10 first hand. The AFAB is the only one I keep looking back at. As for getting an upgraded BCG I want to see how this one functions first. It feels and looks good and the parts are similar to something more expensive, however until I fire it I won't know if it is decent or something to keep as a backup |
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Accuracy comes from handloads tuned to your rifle, a quality barrel, and a free floated handguard (which increases consistency). Gas system length has nothing to do with it at all. I will generally agree with you on handloading and accuracy potential. When you select good bullet design, good powder, and good, consistent reloading practices, you get better than most off-the-shelf ammo and definitely well above bulk ammo. However, there are a few off-the-shelf rounds that compete well with quality reloads as far as accuracy. Federal Gold Match 69g Sierra Matchkings compare well to most quality reloads. The weakness is how and where you can use those Matchkings compared to better bullet selection for specific applications outside the envelope for those Sierra's...hunting, anti-personnel, etc. Still, I've shot smaller animals with match ammo with devastating results, but for meat or pelt harvesting you may not always want "devastating". pointman, you mention a quality barrel. I'll contend that you can get some pretty impressive results from "some" of the bargain barrels with personal reloads. This has been one of my biggest surprises with a couple of vehicle guns that I keep secured in my personal vehicles. My reloaded ammo has shot well beyond what I thought the barrel should be capable of. Ammo may the biggest factor in most of these discussions. |
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How come the trend has been to move away from barrel mounted irons to full length FF handguards with rail mounted irons? Wouldn't shorter FF handguards, or handguards with a cut out for a barrel mounted iron be a more ideal solution? Quoted:
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Bending the rail won't affect the barrel but it will move a rail mounted front sight. That's why the HK416A5 has a barrel mounted flip sight. Exactly, some people seem to forget there is more than one way to skin a cat. How come the trend has been to move away from barrel mounted irons to full length FF handguards with rail mounted irons? Wouldn't shorter FF handguards, or handguards with a cut out for a barrel mounted iron be a more ideal solution? Why? Who uses irons? Even if the red dot goes down, I have other options before even having to resort to the BUIS. The backup irons are a backup for another backup. I can only think of one case aside from optics failure where I would choose to use them - extreme cold weather. |
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