AR Sponsor
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How important is ejection pattern? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/1/2016 12:14:54 PM EDT
|
I have two colts that will eject everything like clockwork at 4 o-clock.
However I built a new rifle that I plan on being my SHTF rifle and it ejects all 5.56 at around 2 o-clock and 223 around 3 o-clock. I have about 500 rounds of ammo though this rifle at its been 100%. It's s spikes Lower with H buffer and BCM upper and bcg. All ammo is brass cased. Some would say it's over gassed and some would say if it ain't broke don't fix it |
|
500 rounds and it's been 100% tells me not to worry.
Too many people are anal about ejection patterns IMO. If it functions fine that's all the proof I need. If anything I would prefer to have a rifle a little over gassed than under gassed. That means it's more likely to work in sub-freezing temperatures or when dirty. I'm really happy with any rifle that ejects brass between 2:00 o'clock and 4:00 o'clock. I don't lose any sleep if a rifle goes outside this range so long as it keeps running. |
|
Quoted:
Borrowed this diagram from another thread on here <a href="http://s829.photobucket.com/user/Quentin68/media/ARejectionpattern.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz211/Quentin68/ARejectionpattern.jpg</a> See and this is that stupid diagram I always see. A lot of factory guns shoot 2:00 |
|
Quoted:
See and this is that stupid diagram I always see. A lot of factory guns shoot 2:00 Quoted:
Quoted:
Borrowed this diagram from another thread on here <a href="http://s829.photobucket.com/user/Quentin68/media/ARejectionpattern.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz211/Quentin68/ARejectionpattern.jpg</a> See and this is that stupid diagram I always see. A lot of factory guns shoot 2:00 I was about to say this. I'll take a slightly overgassed gun. Especially a SHTF gun. I'll bet 99% of the rookie here won't put enough rounds through it to see the accelerated wear that might occur. |
|
As long as the upper has a more standard profile deflector, you can usually tell something about what's going on in the gas/buffer setup by ejection pattern...and sometimes distance. That diagram isn't telling anyone they have to change anything in their setup if the gun is cycling reliably, so folks probably shouldn't get incensed over it. It's just information.
There's nothing wrong with leaving a gun slightly overgassed in most cases, but there's really nothing wrong with toning down the gas to improve recoil, followup shots, etc. if it suits a given shooter...as long as you don't get too low. I agree that most AR's will have little to no issue for durability and reliability with a little too much gas. I have a 16" Armalite AR10 that I changed the barrel from a 20" other caliber, and I was a lot happier with an adjustable gas block to bring the ejection pattern from 1-2 down to 4. But that's on a .308, and it most certainly makes more difference than on our 5.56 guns in regards to recoil. OP, if your setup isn't causing you issues in recoil perception or target reacquisition, I don't think I'd worry about it. If you want to play with it a bit, go to the next heavier buffer which is a relatively cheap and easy experiment. |
|
Quoted:
See and this is that stupid diagram I always see. A lot of factory guns shoot 2:00 Quoted:
Quoted:
Borrowed this diagram from another thread on here <a href="http://s829.photobucket.com/user/Quentin68/media/ARejectionpattern.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz211/Quentin68/ARejectionpattern.jpg</a> See and this is that stupid diagram I always see. A lot of factory guns shoot 2:00 And a lot of guns are overgassed from the factory to make them more reliable with a wider variety of ammo, at the expensive of being a little bit harsher. That image isn't gospel; it's just a good visual to give you a rough idea on the gas situation of your rifle. If you're launching brass at 1:00, then it lets you know that you might want to consider a heavier buffer. Likewise, if brass is landing way behind the gun, then you might want a lighter buffer. If it's going somewhere remotely to the right of your gun, then you'll probably be fine by leaving it as-is, unless you want to fine tune it to your liking. |
|
I get a kick out of these threads. My guns eject in a range. I own xm193 and pmc bronze. That's pretty much all I shoot. Yet I will load mags that eject from 2-4 o'clock. Why, my guess is the difference in powder loads in commercially loaded ammo. For a long time I thought this was an essential critical issue. Here is the critical issue, does it eject what you shoot? If yes then move along. Can you replace the buffer or adjust the gas block, yea. Do so to what you shoot. Then don't get upset if you tune it to xm193 and Tula doesn't cycle well. Sweating 2 o'clock to 4 o'clock in an average rig is not worth it. Keep parts in stock, be prepared to replace extractors as the wear out. *i have yet to see any brand rifle eject EVERYTHING in a pile. The cover an area. |
|
Quoted:
I have two colts that will eject everything like clockwork at 4 o-clock. However I built a new rifle that I plan on being my SHTF rifle and it ejects all 5.56 at around 2 o-clock and 223 around 3 o-clock. I have about 500 rounds of ammo though this rifle at its been 100%. It's s spikes Lower with H buffer and BCM upper and bcg. All ammo is brass cased. Some would say it's over gassed and some would say if it ain't broke don't fix it Assuming the BCM BCG has a decent ejector spring (I would verify), then I would agree that your rifle is using more gas than optimal to cycle. That said, it doesn't malfunction, does it? Then what I'd do is use the opportunity to over-spring and "up-buffer" it. This is why the HK416 did so well in sand and dust trials. Overgassed, oversprung, and with a heavy buffer. It makes the gun less likely to FTF/FTE when dry and/or dirty. |
|
Quoted:
Assuming the BCM BCG has a decent ejector spring (I would verify), then I would agree that your rifle is using more gas than optimal to cycle. That said, it doesn't malfunction, does it? Then what I'd do is use the opportunity to over-spring and "up-buffer" it. This is why the HK416 did so well in sand and dust trials. Overgassed, oversprung, and with a heavy buffer. It makes the gun less likely to FTF/FTE when dry and/or dirty. Quoted:
Quoted:
I have two colts that will eject everything like clockwork at 4 o-clock. However I built a new rifle that I plan on being my SHTF rifle and it ejects all 5.56 at around 2 o-clock and 223 around 3 o-clock. I have about 500 rounds of ammo though this rifle at its been 100%. It's s spikes Lower with H buffer and BCM upper and bcg. All ammo is brass cased. Some would say it's over gassed and some would say if it ain't broke don't fix it Assuming the BCM BCG has a decent ejector spring (I would verify), then I would agree that your rifle is using more gas than optimal to cycle. That said, it doesn't malfunction, does it? Then what I'd do is use the opportunity to over-spring and "up-buffer" it. This is why the HK416 did so well in sand and dust trials. Overgassed, oversprung, and with a heavy buffer. It makes the gun less likely to FTF/FTE when dry and/or dirty. It has an H buffer and standard springs. No o ring in the extractor |
I'm a ejection pattern chaser. I "tune" the ejection so that I can get more life out of my carbines. Will I wear them out in my lifetime? Probably not but it's nice to know that the system isn't getting beat up. Yes I do care.  I'm in the process of tuning my Noveske 10.5" barreled upper. Brass unsuppressed is getting launched around 1-2 o'clock. Don't even get me started on suppressed shooting. Right now I have an H2 with a standard spring. Looks like I'm going to have to bump it up to an H3 and MAYBE add a Sprinco blue spring.
|
|
Quoted:
I'm a ejection pattern chaser. I "tune" the ejection so that I can get more life out of my carbines. Will I wear them out in my lifetime? Probably not but it's nice to know that the system isn't getting beat up. Yes I do care. I'm in the process of tuning my Noveske 10.5" barreled upper. Brass unsuppressed is getting launched around 1-2 o'clock. Don't even get me started on suppressed shooting. Right now I have an H2 with a standard spring. Looks like I'm going to have to bump it up to an H3 and MAYBE add a Sprinco blue spring.
Why that seems so heavy? Standard H buffer is the biggest I go |
|
Check your Ejector Spring too.
My SR15 Mod1 had a shorter than typical spring(compared to Colt and Brownell) causing 1 o'clock ejection pattern using 5.56, even with a H3 buffer. After changing out the Ejector Spring to the Brownell ejector spring, it ejects perfectly at 4 o'clock using 5.56 ammo and H buffer I think the ejection pattern is important, but that is just me being picky and that I want my gun to be as close to "perfect" as I can get it. |
|
Quoted:
It's not important, if it's ejecting reliably, it's good. If you're having an issue (short stroking, etc.), the ejection pattern can help you diagnose the problem. This but it is not the end all be all. Of the gun ejects anywhere from 1:00 to 5:00 and it runs, keep shooting it and quit worrying. |
|
Quoted:
Check your Ejector Spring too. My SR15 Mod1 had a shorter than typical spring(compared to Colt and Brownell) causing 1 o'clock ejection pattern using 5.56, even with a H3 buffer. After changing out the Ejector Spring to the Brownell ejector spring, it ejects perfectly at 4 o'clock using 5.56 ammo and H buffer I think the ejection pattern is important, but that is just me being picky and that I want my gun to be as close to "perfect" as I can get it. The bolt assembly was taken from a complete BCM BCG so I'm pretty sure it's kosher. I measured the gas port on a similar Noveske barrel and it was at least 0.080". A little on the gassy side.. I think that is what is contributing to the hard ejection. Nothing wrong with tweaking a perfectly functioning rifle. It helps me sleep at night. |
|
Does it matter? Not really.
But it's not optimal. I'm a firm believer in running the heaviest buffer your gas system can cycle. Honestly unless you like tweaking your guns I wouldn't sweat it. Forward ejection isn't the real issue with an overgassed gun anyway. Increased cyclic speed, early bolt unlocking, bolt bounce etc etc. Guns with heavier buffers shoot smoother too IMO. |
|
Quoted:
Does it matter? Not really. But it's not optimal. I'm a firm believer in running the heaviest buffer your gas system can cycle. Honestly unless you like tweaking your guns I wouldn't sweat it. Forward ejection isn't the real issue with an overgassed gun anyway. Increased cyclic speed, early bolt unlocking, bolt bounce etc etc. Guns with heavier buffers shoot smoother too IMO. I also agree with this. |
|
Here's my take on ejection pattern, from the view point of someone who has spent 3 1/2 of the last 4 years in the ME working on military small arms:
Ejection pattern can be helpful in diagnosing failures of components. That's it. The only weapons that the ejection pattern "chart" applies to is full milspec guns running milspec ammunition under ideal conditions. The chart on page one of this thread has listed fixes of aftermarket parts, etc. to "fix" something that cannot be fixed in such a manner. Military guns cannot be modified in this manner, hence, the chart is irrelevant n that aspect. Regarding the "proper" diagnosis, forward brass throw(12:30 to 2:30-ish) is usually indicative of worn springs either indicating excessive bolt speeds(weak action spring) or a weakened/broken ejector spring not pushing the spent casing out of the ejection port as fast as it should. This causes the brass to hit the deflector or rear of the ejection port later in the cycle and which part of the deflector the brass hits is as important as the force with which it impacts regarding brass throw. Weak ejection, i.e. anything past 4:30-ish is usually caused by leaking gas in the carrier key, trashed gas rings, etc. I've also seen the buffer roll pin working it's way out and dragging on the action spring causing the system to slow and sound crunchy as hell. I've seen gas tube with holes burned in them directly over the barrel gas port which started blasting out the rear of the gas block thusly reducing gas in the system. Never seen gas port size make a damn bit of difference as the throat wears out past gauge requirements before the port ever oversizes. Regarding ejection pattern in guns using commercial components, ignore it. The moment you change anything from milspec, its "normal" behavior will be different from milspec components. You may have a much stronger ejector spring throwing the brass out the ejection port quicker then milspec and causing the gun to *seem* under gassed with slow bolt speed, when such is not the case. If you change some other component because of this misdiagnosis, you screw the system up even more and end up chasing your tail. If you're not using a full milspec gun, the best thing to do is use only high quality manufactured guns, or if building your own, use only high quality parts and learn how the system works on its own and modify your interpretation of the ejection pattern based on how that gun works in its best condition. Just don't ever use the ejection pattern as an excuse to buy more crap aftermarket parts with no real benefit. The concept of KISS really applies to the operating system more so then the crap you bolt onto the outside of the rifle. Simple is good. Simple is reliable. Simple is easy to diagnose and fix. Every aftermarket part has its own behavior performance that is an unknown entity until you spend time to actually learn it. All of that being said, I usually change my action springs and ejector spings when brass throw starts heading past 2:30 on my guns running milspec parts. On guns running non-milspec parts, I identified the singular non milspec part and adapted my interpretations of ejection based on that. i.e. A Noveske MK18 CQBR with an N4 barrel. Noveske did like DD and used a .080 gas port. This will increase bolt speeds when using NATO spec ammunition, causing a more forward throw pattern. To account for this, I accept the bolt speed and a 2: to 2:30 ejection pattern as normal, and start looking to replace springs when ejection gets to the 1:00 to 1:30 area. Or, I just run commercial spec ammunition and get that near perfect 3:00 ejection and be happy. One thing I won't do is just run a gun until it breaks and then replace a part. This is why I do use the ejection pattern as an indicator of spring and/or parts wear ad do full inspections of components and gauging. Lastly, consistent brass throw readings are important. Minor aspects of ammunition from round to round, dirty guns, little to no lube, cold gun vs. warm gun vs. hot gun can and will effect brass throw, so don't get your panties in a twist if you see a few oddball casings going places you don't want them to. |
|
Quoted:
I'm a ejection pattern chaser. I "tune" the ejection so that I can get more life out of my carbines. Will I wear them out in my lifetime? Probably not but it's nice to know that the system isn't getting beat up. Yes I do care. I'm in the process of tuning my Noveske 10.5" barreled upper. Brass unsuppressed is getting launched around 1-2 o'clock. Don't even get me started on suppressed shooting. Right now I have an H2 with a standard spring. Looks like I'm going to have to bump it up to an H3 and MAYBE add a Sprinco blue spring.
Get the Gemtech suppressed bolt carrier. One of the best pieces of "high speed" gear I've ever purchased. It actually works. |
|
Quoted:
I'm a ejection pattern chaser. I "tune" the ejection so that I can get more life out of my carbines. Will I wear them out in my lifetime? Probably not but it's nice to know that the system isn't getting beat up. Yes I do care. I'm in the process of tuning my Noveske 10.5" barreled upper. Brass unsuppressed is getting launched around 1-2 o'clock. Don't even get me started on suppressed shooting. Right now I have an H2 with a standard spring. Looks like I'm going to have to bump it up to an H3 and MAYBE add a Sprinco blue spring.
Noveske spec'ed barrels are ported very generously. Across the board about 8-10 thou more than I'd prefer. |
|
Quoted:
Check your Ejector Spring too. My SR15 Mod1 had a shorter than typical spring(compared to Colt and Brownell) causing 1 o'clock ejection pattern using 5.56, even with a H3 buffer. After changing out the Ejector Spring to the Brownell ejector spring, it ejects perfectly at 4 o'clock using 5.56 ammo and H buffer I think the ejection pattern is important, but that is just me being picky and that I want my gun to be as close to "perfect" as I can get it. This is very valid. I've seen BCM BCG's wear out pretty quick (few thousand rounds) regarding the ejector spring. Signs of a weak spring are erratic and forward ejection. Colt gets their springs from the same place a lot of other companies do...but they hold them to a very tight spec, and they are not the same as the other companies buy. Colt ejector springs are all I will use. |
| Most factory guns are tuned to the over-gassed side to ensure they'll cycle anything. If you want to shoot one load at the softest recoil, get an adjustable gas block, otherwise don't worry. A little extra gas isn't going to kill your rifle and if it's cycling everything you feed it, rejoice. Not everyone is so lucky out of the box. |
|
Quoted:
Borrowed this diagram from another thread on here <a href="http://s829.photobucket.com/user/Quentin68/media/ARejectionpattern.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz211/Quentin68/ARejectionpattern.jpg</a> Absolutely ridiculous, as long as the rifle ejects... it's fine |
|
Quoted:
Get the Gemtech suppressed bolt carrier. One of the best pieces of "high speed" gear I've ever purchased. It actually works. Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm a ejection pattern chaser. I "tune" the ejection so that I can get more life out of my carbines. Will I wear them out in my lifetime? Probably not but it's nice to know that the system isn't getting beat up. Yes I do care. I'm in the process of tuning my Noveske 10.5" barreled upper. Brass unsuppressed is getting launched around 1-2 o'clock. Don't even get me started on suppressed shooting. Right now I have an H2 with a standard spring. Looks like I'm going to have to bump it up to an H3 and MAYBE add a Sprinco blue spring.
Get the Gemtech suppressed bolt carrier. One of the best pieces of "high speed" gear I've ever purchased. It actually works. Funny thing is I do have a Gemtech bolt carrier in the rifle. It's so overgassed even on suppressed mode it's still kicking brass around 2-2:30. H3 and Sprinco blue buffer spring arrived. Time to play around later this week.. I have a Bootleg Inc adjustable carrier as well. It recently went back to Bootleg to get altered. On one of my builds it wasn't venting enough on suppressed mode so they opened it up a bit. I need to take it back to the range to see if it made a significant difference. |
|
Quoted:
Funny thing is I do have a Gemtech bolt carrier in the rifle. It's so overgassed even on suppressed mode it's still kicking brass around 2-2:30. H3 and Sprinco blue buffer spring arrived. Time to play around later this week.. I have a Bootleg Inc adjustable carrier as well. It recently went back to Bootleg to get altered. On one of my builds it wasn't venting enough on suppressed mode so they opened it up a bit. I need to take it back to the range to see if it made a significant difference. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm a ejection pattern chaser. I "tune" the ejection so that I can get more life out of my carbines. Will I wear them out in my lifetime? Probably not but it's nice to know that the system isn't getting beat up. Yes I do care. I'm in the process of tuning my Noveske 10.5" barreled upper. Brass unsuppressed is getting launched around 1-2 o'clock. Don't even get me started on suppressed shooting. Right now I have an H2 with a standard spring. Looks like I'm going to have to bump it up to an H3 and MAYBE add a Sprinco blue spring.
Get the Gemtech suppressed bolt carrier. One of the best pieces of "high speed" gear I've ever purchased. It actually works. Funny thing is I do have a Gemtech bolt carrier in the rifle. It's so overgassed even on suppressed mode it's still kicking brass around 2-2:30. H3 and Sprinco blue buffer spring arrived. Time to play around later this week.. I have a Bootleg Inc adjustable carrier as well. It recently went back to Bootleg to get altered. On one of my builds it wasn't venting enough on suppressed mode so they opened it up a bit. I need to take it back to the range to see if it made a significant difference. I would be very surprised if that buffer/spring combo doesn't help. Keep us posted. |
|
Quoted:
You ever see the HK416 ejection pattern? That thing seems to spit brass around 2:00 and no one can say it doesn't run. As long as it's ejecting and cycling I say it's fine. No, but aac had to redesign suppressors for it, it battered itself to death, it's harder to keep on target...etc. |
|
I use it to tune
rounds that eject toward the front of the gun is a sign the system needs to be slowed down. If too bad and left be then the gun is undergoing more stress than it needs to be going through as it is trying to unlock the system before the brass case has relaxed its seal on the chamber. If able to take stress off of parts I will. Also I reload every round I shoot. The brass shot from a gun that is ejecting forward (well over gassed, will have a crease in the side of the case. If the problem is too bad it will render the case useless. The crease comes from the brass slamming the rear of ejection port and bouncing to the front of the rifle not using the brass deflector at all, well before the ejector spring has fully extended. A gun cycling in the wheel house will squarely deflect from the brass deflector as indicated buy a brass smudge covering the deflector This leaves the brass perfect, puts them in a nice little pile from 3 to 4 oclock I like getting them running as intended, if over gassed it better than under gassed for cycling but it only goes so far, eventually it will rip the case head off and leave the brass stuck in the chamber , or it will tear off a bolt lug, abuse the cam and channel ......just general wear will be accelerated |
|
Here is the problem I have with trying to diagnose a gun and how its running using the ejection pattern. No one has any data from more then their own personnel guns.
Show me a ejection pattern based of a test where 100 factory guns shooting the same lot of ammo. And how many have "shot out " their AR's due to over gassing? The ejection pattern shown is subject to dozens of different rds of ammo made with hundreds if not thousands of lots of Powder and bullet and primer along with different barrel makes, lengths and manufacturer's. But if it makes some of you feel better that your "Tuning your gun" .. go for it... I think its just a lot of fodder for guys to spew on the firing line in between cease fires. |
|
Quoted:
You ever see the HK416 ejection pattern? That thing seems to spit brass around 2:00 and no one can say it doesn't run. As long as it's ejecting and cycling I say it's fine. 416 is non milspec. ejection pattern chart as currently read, does not apply. There are many aspects of the 416 that are manufactured very differently, not just the gas system. For instance, the ejector spring, even as small as it is, is a multi-strand wire and is stronger then a typical AR ejector spring. That being said, an ejection of 2:00 says the gun would then be over gassed. If a stronger ejector spring mimics a gun being under gassed because it's getting the spent brass out of the ejection port quicker, then having a stronger ejector spring and still having forward pattern brass throw tells us just how "over gassed" the 416 really is. Add to that the fact that the action spring is several lbs. stronger then a standard AR spring and the buffer is a full 5 oz........ That's a lot of mass moving very fast. That's why they beat everything in the reliable game. They will push past a lot more dirt, grime, carbon, water, etc. etc. then any other gun. But, that mass is more difficult to control, so there are drawbacks. |
|
Quoted:
Add to that the fact that the action spring is several lbs. stronger then a standard AR spring and the buffer is a full 5 oz........ That's a lot of mass moving very fast. . Quoted:
Quoted:
You ever see the HK416 ejection pattern? That thing seems to spit brass around 2:00 and no one can say it doesn't run. As long as it's ejecting and cycling I say it's fine. Add to that the fact that the action spring is several lbs. stronger then a standard AR spring and the buffer is a full 5 oz........ That's a lot of mass moving very fast. . The same applies to DI M4s firing 5.56 with extra power action and extractor springs and H3 type buffers. See Mike Pannone's article for Defense Review. Adding these parts turns an already incredibly reliable rifle into a, as the author puts it, obscenely reliable rifle. I buy it. |
|
Quoted:
I also agree with this. Quoted:
Quoted:
Does it matter? Not really. But it's not optimal. I'm a firm believer in running the heaviest buffer your gas system can cycle. Honestly unless you like tweaking your guns I wouldn't sweat it. Forward ejection isn't the real issue with an overgassed gun anyway. Increased cyclic speed, early bolt unlocking, bolt bounce etc etc. Guns with heavier buffers shoot smoother too IMO. I also agree with this. As do I. I started tuning them for it, and damned if they didn't all start giving me 3:00-4:00 Now, my CQBR with the can is another story. That fucker will damn near spit it directly forward LOL It's definitely nothing to sweat, but after you acquire several ARs, get them dressed out like you want, there is nothing wrong with chasing down smoother operation. |
|
In general, I also agree: heavier buffers should "feel" smoother.
And about "that chart"... Its only real use is as a troubleshooting aid.. That should mean to everyone that you would use the chart when "there's something wrong", NOT puzzling over whether your rifle is OK. It ejects every time? Then there's NOTHING wrong. Keep in mind that hotter rounds WILL eject farther forward than milder rounds - that's how the system works. The more gas pressure that's applied, the faster the carrier will move backwar. This backward motion is what makes the case eject in a rearward direction. If it's going fast enough, the case will hit the deflector. The faster it is going when it hits the deflector, the faster it will bounce off the deflector. There's a specific zone of ejection speed where the case slips past the deflector without touching it - that's about 4:00. I would call any round that does this (in a specific rifle) the "minimally reliable" load for that rifle. Keep in mind that as the rifle gets dirty you will see some decrease in carrier speed due to accumulated crud, so if the rifle ejects a particular round at 4:00 when clean, you'll get closer to 3:00 when the gun is really dirty. Stoner built "over gas" into the system...on purpose. A standard AR should run almost everything reliably, with the only difference being how vigorously the empties are ejected. If the carrier isn't hammering the inside of the receiver extension and then pile-driving the bolt into the chamber, then this notion of "over gassed" is not worth discussing. This term should be reserved for describing a problem, rather than what is actually a useful and fundamental design feature. |
| I have always wondered who came up with that stupid ejection pie chart. They must be a really accomplished physicist. If the gun ejects properly that's the goal. Ever watched super slo-mo of the brass bouncing off the brass deflector? Casings headed backward out of the ejection port can suddenly change direction and bounce forward. Now is that over or under gassed? |
|
Quoted:
I have always wondered who came up with that stupid ejection pie chart. They must be a really accomplished physicist. If the gun ejects properly that's the goal. Ever watched super slo-mo of the brass bouncing off the brass deflector? Casings headed backward out of the ejection port can suddenly change direction and bounce forward. Now is that over or under gassed? I've not experienced the randomness you describe in ejection. I only have 6 AR's, but all of them have the same identical deflector shape and size...milspec or whatever label you want to call it. I'm guessing that because of that I get a pretty darned predictable location pile of casings as long as the ground is decently soft or the grass thick enough to not promote rolling or bouncing of the empties...and as long as ammo isn't ridiculously mixed in the magazine like a hot, home reload mixed with steel cased Tula. You mention physics, and that is pretty much why many/most of us get a predictable pile of brass, generally speaking. I'm no physicist and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but it's called a momentum formula. Even with a little bit of variance in how the empty case hits the deflector, at the speed it's moving it's the momentum that takes precedence for the most part. Obviously different deflector shapes, really funky ammo, and other elements can change this, but if we're talking generalities here, casings can and usually do go to a predictable place at a common angle with our AR's. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How important is ejection pattern? (Page 1 of 2)
AR Sponsor