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Posted: 9/13/2016 11:55:49 AM EDT
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Guys, I usually buy cheapo BCGs, but I'm going to try to get higher quality parts for my next build. I'm looking American Defense's "Premium Bolt Carrier Group," and in the product description it says "Material: 4340 Key, Cam Pin, Extractor." Does that mean that there are no cast/MIM parts on this BCG? Forgive me if that should be a no brainer. I suspect that it means those parts are milled, not cast, but I'd like to get confirmation from people who know more about this.
If you happen to have any direct experience with the American Defense BCG, please share. I'll also take suggestions about any other BCGs, but I really want to stay in this price range if I can. https://www.americandefensemanufacturing.com/view/product/883/description/ |
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This ADM was cheaper. I'm looking closely at the BCM, but it's hard to decide if I want to pay more for the quality or save some money for other parts. ADM has a good reputation for mounts, I was hoping their BCGs are GTG, too. I would save $30. I also like what I hear about Nitride finishes.
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Something wrong with a Daniel Defense or BCM? |
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It's up to you, but for $160 I'd choose one of these:
Brownells $129.99 Palmetto State Armory $89.99 |
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It's up to you, but for $160 I'd choose one of these: Brownells $129.99 Palmetto State Armory $89.99 The Daniel Defense BCG is on sale for $160 as well right now at primary arms |
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Wondering what you get for the extra $$$$ vs an AIM Surplus $109 v2 BCG ?
AIM V2 Nirtride BCG . V2 Black Nitride AR/M16 .223/5.56 Bolt Carrier Groups. • 8620 Tool Steel Enhanced Radius design (Angle Cut) Carrier with inside and out Black Nitride Treatment • Carpenter 158 Steel MPI Bolt with inside and out Black Nitride Treatment • Extractor has Black Insert and O-Ring upgrade • Billet Machined 4140 Steel Gas Key • Grade 8 Fasteners • Military Specification Gas Key Staking |
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"Material: 4340 Key, Cam Pin, Extractor."
Not a spec I am familiar with, so I won't comment on it. The specs that to my knowledge are of concern (and apply to what the mil buys) are... Carpenter 158 bolt
HPT MPI If the vendor offers all of the above, and you trust them, GTG. In this group lies at a minimum Colt & BCM, which doesn't necessarily exclude anybody else claiming the spec - that's just my personal GTG list. If the vendor offers all of the above, but you are in the Missouri "show me" mode on the trust thing, maybe worth taking a chance on if you are not planning to go in harms way (but if we're talking e.g. LE Patrol carbine, what's $50 for piece of mind?). If the vendor right out tells you that they don't adhere to that spec, IMO range use only. YMMV |
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Guys, I usually buy cheapo BCGs, but I'm going to try to get higher quality parts for my next build. I'm looking American Defense's "Premium Bolt Carrier Group," and in the product description it says "Material: 4340 Key, Cam Pin, Extractor." Does that mean that there are no cast/MIM parts on this BCG? Forgive me if that should be a no brainer. I suspect that it means those parts are milled, not cast, but I'd like to get confirmation from people who know more about this. If you happen to have any direct experience with the American Defense BCG, please share. I'll also take suggestions about any other BCGs, but I really want to stay in this price range if I can. https://www.americandefensemanufacturing.com/view/product/883/description/ https://www.americandefensemanufacturing.com/contact/ Here you go OP. |
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I was looking very closely at one of those. It seems to check all the boxes. Why is it so cheap? Is it too cheap to be trusted?
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Wondering what you get for the extra $$$$ vs an AIM Surplus $109 v2 BCG ? AIM V2 Nirtride BCG . V2 Black Nitride AR/M16 .223/5.56 Bolt Carrier Groups. • 8620 Tool Steel Enhanced Radius design (Angle Cut) Carrier with inside and out Black Nitride Treatment • Carpenter 158 Steel MPI Bolt with inside and out Black Nitride Treatment • Extractor has Black Insert and O-Ring upgrade • Billet Machined 4140 Steel Gas Key • Grade 8 Fasteners • Military Specification Gas Key Staking |
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I was looking very closely at one of those. It seems to check all the boxes. Why is it so cheap? Is it too cheap to be trusted? Quoted:
I was looking very closely at one of those. It seems to check all the boxes. Why is it so cheap? Is it too cheap to be trusted? Quoted:
Wondering what you get for the extra $$$$ vs an AIM Surplus $109 v2 BCG ? AIM V2 Nirtride BCG . V2 Black Nitride AR/M16 .223/5.56 Bolt Carrier Groups. • 8620 Tool Steel Enhanced Radius design (Angle Cut) Carrier with inside and out Black Nitride Treatment • Carpenter 158 Steel MPI Bolt with inside and out Black Nitride Treatment • Extractor has Black Insert and O-Ring upgrade • Billet Machined 4140 Steel Gas Key • Grade 8 Fasteners • Military Specification Gas Key Staking MPI without mention of HPT probably means no HPT, which makes the MPI much less meaningful but saves bucks. With the proliferation of nitride vs chrome in the barrel world, I strongly suspect nitride has become cheaper than chrome, too, at least in quantity. |
| Don't confuse higher prices and claims of "premium" products for actual quality. Toolcraft BCGs are exceptionally well made, meet or exceed everybody's specs for standard assemblies, and aren't that expensive. Fancy coatings and grandiose claims are all well and good, but it's hard to beat actual track records of solid, consistent, and long-term performance. |
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Toolcraft back in stock. Ordered one today.
http://www.wcarmory.com/toolcraft-bcg-223-5-56-bolt-carrier-group-black-1b1b6-c-158-mpi-complete.htm ETA- nevermind they're out of stock already 
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Several quality bcgs on the EE. If you are not set on the ADM, $160 would get you a new Colt or FN and you would be gtg, imo.
One example : http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_159/1583758_Colt_Full_Auto_Bolt_Carrier_Groups.html |
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Don't confuse higher prices and claims of "premium" products for actual quality. Toolcraft BCGs are exceptionally well made, meet or exceed everybody's specs for standard assemblies, and aren't that expensive. Fancy coatings and grandiose claims are all well and good, but it's hard to beat actual track records of solid, consistent, and long-term performance. +1 One of the better quality BCG's I've used. And if you want a fancy coating you can get it throught their Cryptic Coatings division. |
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I think I've become convinced to get a BCM. This build is going to be a SHTF type build, and I'm trying to build it as if I'll never be able to find replacement parts for it, and I want it to last forever. Yes, I'm putting away a spare parts kit for it, but I'm sure you know what I mean. I have an AIM bcg that I'm very happy with. I really, really like the looks of the AIM V2 Nitride, and I'd really like to know how many of you would trust that bcg for the type of build I just described?
I think next year, when I have some more disposable income, I'm going to buy 2 or 3 of those AIM bcgs and stash them as spares, but right now I'm still leaning towards a premium bcg. The American Defense bcg I linked is HPT/MPI, and has the finish I wanted, and is only $130 at Primary Arms, but I've decided to buy one with a milled gas key, and I can't tell if it has one or not. I'll e-mail ADM and ask them about it and post their response here. Thanks again guys. |
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I think I've become convinced to get a BCM. This build is going to be a SHTF type build, and I'm trying to build it as if I'll never be able to find replacement parts for it, and I want it to last forever. Yes, I'm putting away a spare parts kit for it, but I'm sure you know what I mean. I have an AIM bcg that I'm very happy with. I really, really like the looks of the AIM V2 Nitride, and I'd really like to know how many of you would trust that bcg for the type of build I just described? I think next year, when I have some more disposable income, I'm going to buy 2 or 3 of those AIM bcgs and stash them as spares, but right now I'm still leaning towards a premium bcg. The American Defense bcg I linked is HPT/MPI, and has the finish I wanted, and is only $130 at Primary Arms, but I've decided to buy one with a milled gas key, and I can't tell if it has one or not. I'll e-mail ADM and ask them about it and post their response here. Thanks again guys. OP, The gas keys are MACHINED not MIM. This is per a conversation with ADM earlier. Contact: Jeremy Kattner Senior Tech Manager American Defense Manufacturing NO MORE WONDERING. 
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Toolcraft back in stock. Ordered one today. http://www.wcarmory.com/toolcraft-bcg-223-5-56-bolt-carrier-group-black-1b1b6-c-158-mpi-complete.htm ETA- nevermind they're out of stock already Those things always sell out stupid fast. |
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The non engraved (Same exact BCG) and a SBN finish variant are both still in stock for $90
http://www.wcarmory.com/toolcraft-inc/toolcraft-bcg-223-5-56-bolt-carrier-group-black-c-158-mpi-complete.htm http://www.wcarmory.com/toolcraft-inc/toolcraft-bcg-223-5-56-bolt-carrier-group-sbn-c158-complete.htm |
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The non engraved (Same exact BCG) and a SBN finish variant are both still in stock for $90 http://www.wcarmory.com/toolcraft-inc/toolcraft-bcg-223-5-56-bolt-carrier-group-black-c-158-mpi-complete.htm http://www.wcarmory.com/toolcraft-inc/toolcraft-bcg-223-5-56-bolt-carrier-group-sbn-c158-complete.htm This +24 |
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Thanks man! Hmmm. Decisions, decisions. Everything I've seen regarding ADM has been positive, but I can't find any reviews of their BCGs. Their mounts get a lot of praise on YT. At $130, it's going to be tough to decide whether or not to get it or the BCM. Primary Arms sold out of them at that price, though, that might make the decision easier.
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OP, The gas keys are MACHINED not MIM. This is per a conversation with ADM earlier. Contact: Jeremy Kattner Senior Tech Manager American Defense Manufacturing NO MORE WONDERING.
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I think I've become convinced to get a BCM. This build is going to be a SHTF type build, and I'm trying to build it as if I'll never be able to find replacement parts for it, and I want it to last forever. Yes, I'm putting away a spare parts kit for it, but I'm sure you know what I mean. I have an AIM bcg that I'm very happy with. I really, really like the looks of the AIM V2 Nitride, and I'd really like to know how many of you would trust that bcg for the type of build I just described? I think next year, when I have some more disposable income, I'm going to buy 2 or 3 of those AIM bcgs and stash them as spares, but right now I'm still leaning towards a premium bcg. The American Defense bcg I linked is HPT/MPI, and has the finish I wanted, and is only $130 at Primary Arms, but I've decided to buy one with a milled gas key, and I can't tell if it has one or not. I'll e-mail ADM and ask them about it and post their response here. Thanks again guys. OP, The gas keys are MACHINED not MIM. This is per a conversation with ADM earlier. Contact: Jeremy Kattner Senior Tech Manager American Defense Manufacturing NO MORE WONDERING.
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Wasnt trying to detract. I went with 2 Toolcraft's FWIW. Quoted:
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True. Just not the original topic. Several quality bcg manufacturers, imo. Wasnt trying to detract. I went with 2 Toolcraft's FWIW. Nah I know. Wasnt meant for you boss.
And Toolcraft, imo, can be considered top of the line. I am running 2 from Ds arms, like them alot. Solid, no issues. Now I want a Toolcraft. Price is great. |
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Imo, it is worth trying. I do not foresee it letting you down. Ammo plus a premium fa bcg that is manufactured to milspec, gtg extractor, HPT, MPI and a solid reputation.Yeah, I would sleep just fine owning one
Ill ad that I have no experience with PSA, but alot of members here run them and like them. Mine are DSA, Bushmaster, Colt, AIM, and RRA. Not a problem yet. ETA: Not saying it is what I consider the best of the best, only giving you options. My vote, for what it's worth, is buy Toolcraft, will be my next purchase, personally.I have just the project earmarked for one (A2upper, Bushy barrel, plain jane truck gun!)
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Those things always sell out stupid fast. Quoted:
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Toolcraft back in stock. Ordered one today. http://www.wcarmory.com/toolcraft-bcg-223-5-56-bolt-carrier-group-black-1b1b6-c-158-mpi-complete.htm ETA- nevermind they're out of stock already Those things always sell out stupid fast. Get on their email notification, I did, and ordered one of the SBN carriers yesterday---$90+ $7 shipping. Toolcraft is definitely tier one.... |
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I might be stupid but I wouldn't unless it specifically stated the following: Carpenter No. 158® Steel V I don't think it's stupid. And note that the Toolcraft BCGs at WC Armory DO have C-158 bolts. |
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http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/650569_DS_Arms_BCG_vs_BCM_BCG____75_vs__169___Which_one_is_worth_it_.html
OP, read this when you can. Its nice to have options.
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I don't think it's stupid. And note that the Toolcraft BCGs at WC Armory DO have C-158 bolts. Quoted:
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I might be stupid but I wouldn't unless it specifically stated the following: Carpenter No. 158® Steel V I don't think it's stupid. And note that the Toolcraft BCGs at WC Armory DO have C-158 bolts. All the Toolcraft BCGs from WC Armory now have 158 bolts. Most of them used to be 9310 but that changed a few months back. I bought a couple of the SBN and one engraved phosphate BCG this go around. I bought a complete new upper a couple years back off the EE and it came with a Nitride BCG that had the Toolcraft name engraved on the side. It is the nicest finished and machined BCG I have ever seen. I'm hoping these SBN non engraved Toolcraft BCGs from WC Armory are the same quality. |
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