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Posted: 6/20/2016 3:12:02 PM EDT
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I am new to this board and ARs in general. I am trying to figure out what to get for my first AR: S&W VTAC II or Colt LE6920.
Like S&W for mid-length gas system and free-floating barrel. Dislike S&W for price, and would rather a Colt. Like Colt for being colt, well priced, and most common AR out there for future upgrades Dislike that it is carbine length, so will need whole new upper and then have a left-over upper. Thoughts? |
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Either will be fine, but the Colt Crowd will be along shortly to tell you anything besides Colt is sacrilegious. The Colt will hold resell value better. With that particular S&W model, you are paying for the VTAC name and the free float handguard. As far as "most common AR out there for future upgrades", the "upgrades" don't care who the manufacturer is. That's the beauty of the AR, parts are interchangeable as long as the rifle is in spec. I don't get why you would trash the entire upper of the Colt simply because it has carbine length gas. If the gas system length is one of your main determining factors, go with the S&W. |
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Quoted:
As far as "most common AR out there for future upgrades", the "upgrades" don't care who the manufacturer is. That's the beauty of the AR, parts are interchangeable as long as the rifle is in spec. I thought I had read that guns like the 6940 didn't accept certain upgrades? Or is that only add-ons to the upper, vs a whole new upper? Any thoughts from folks on putting a mid-length upper on the Colt lower? |
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Why are you so adamant about mid-length? The average joe isn't going to able to discern the difference from carbine and ML.
As far as colt goes, I think the only difference between that and conventional ARs is most use the larger trigger pins. There may be other but that's the big one I know of. |
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I've never owned a Colt, and haven't paid them much attention, but something about the trigger/hammer pin size not being interchangeable. Not sure if that was only during a certain time period, if it was specific models, or if it is still the case (I don't think it is). Edit your thread title to include the words "Colt Sucks" (it's just clickbait) and you'll get folks that are more intimately familiar with Colts than I to chime in. |
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Quoted: I've never owned a Colt, and haven't paid them much attention, but something about the trigger/hammer pin size not being interchangeable. Not sure if that was only during a certain time period, if it was specific models, or if it is still the case (I don't think it is). Edit your thread title to include the words "Colt Sucks" (it's just clickbait) and you'll get folks that are more intimately familiar with Colts than I to chime in. To the OP. There is nothing wrong with the carbine length gas system on the 6920. It's not super overgassed like some other carbine length 16" systems. If you're really that worried about it, you could always chop the barrel to 14.5" that is where the carbine length gas system shines. |
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Quoted:
I thought I had read that guns like the 6940 didn't accept certain upgrades? Or is that only add-ons to the upper, vs a whole new upper? Any thoughts from folks on putting a mid-length upper on the Colt lower? Quoted:
Quoted:
As far as "most common AR out there for future upgrades", the "upgrades" don't care who the manufacturer is. That's the beauty of the AR, parts are interchangeable as long as the rifle is in spec. I thought I had read that guns like the 6940 didn't accept certain upgrades? Or is that only add-ons to the upper, vs a whole new upper? Any thoughts from folks on putting a mid-length upper on the Colt lower? As simple as pushing a couple of pins, then attaching your new mid upper. On my 6920 I took off a Gov't profile mid upper, and replaced it with a Recce-style upper. I have a couple of mids but really can't tell much difference over my carbines. All the current Colts have standard FCG and pivot pins. While you can't swap out rails on the 6940 because of the monolithic system I assume you can put another upper on the 6940 lower. |
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why would you want to swap out the 6940 upper when the monolithic rail is the selling point . If you want to do a bunch of swapping forget a 6940 what you buy is what you get except for rail covers pistol grips and butt stock I suppose a person could change the barrel with the right tools but again why. I like the fact the reciever and rail are one and the same its about as strong of an upper as you will get and the 1/7 barrel is very accurate plus you get a matech buis and a fold down front sight . the biggy is the trigger it is not match grade by any means but that is a simple fix . I love mine it is accurate with bullets ranging from 53 grain v-max up through 70 grain barnes and 77 grain smk .
I do have a smith and wesson carbine chambered in 300 blackout and it is a good gun I have done nothing but shoot it the 5r rifling makes for some excellent accuracy and it eats everything from sub-sonic suppressed to super sonic . Its nothing fancy or special I could swap out the hand guards for a free float system but dont see the need it shoots good enough for me to hit a deer or coyote at 250 yds . If I had to pick it would be the 6940 simple for the ammo avalible and it being built like the proverbial brick feces house. If you are hell bent for leather on a mid length then check out bravo company they make some quality stuff. |
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The Smith is an excellent gun. So is the colt. I would say the Colt is a Chevy while this particular model of Smith is a Cadillac. But is it an actual Caddy or just a Ford with a Caddy body? Is the base system worth the upgrades on it or would I be better with the basic 6920. |
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But is it an actual Caddy or just a Ford with a Caddy body? Is the base system worth the upgrades on it or would I be better with the basic 6920. Quoted:
Quoted:
The Smith is an excellent gun. So is the colt. I would say the Colt is a Chevy while this particular model of Smith is a Cadillac. But is it an actual Caddy or just a Ford with a Caddy body? Is the base system worth the upgrades on it or would I be better with the basic 6920. You'd be better served by a basic LE6920. Maybe slap a DD Omega on it if you want it free-floated. The VTAC rifle is just marketing. You can build a BCM rifle of the same specs for a little more than half the cost. |
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You'd be better served by a basic LE6920. Maybe slap a DD Omega on it if you want it free-floated. The VTAC rifle is just marketing. You can build a BCM rifle of the same specs for a little more than half the cost. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Smith is an excellent gun. So is the colt. I would say the Colt is a Chevy while this particular model of Smith is a Cadillac. But is it an actual Caddy or just a Ford with a Caddy body? Is the base system worth the upgrades on it or would I be better with the basic 6920. You'd be better served by a basic LE6920. Maybe slap a DD Omega on it if you want it free-floated. The VTAC rifle is just marketing. You can build a BCM rifle of the same specs for a little more than half the cost. Owning two 6920s, I can tell you the VTAC has a much better barrel, a quality free float rail and a great out of the box trigger from Geissele. The question is what can you build that will be comparable for the same money. |
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Owning two 6920s, I can tell you the VTAC has a much better barrel, a quality free float rail and a great out of the box trigger from Geissele. The question is what can you build that will be comparable for the same money. What is better about the VTAC's barrel? As far as I can tell, it is just a S&W barrel? Both 4150, Colt is 1:7 6r vs S&W 1:8 5r As for the free float, if I follow rb889's idea I can get a DD omega free float rail for $200 vs $800 difference between them |
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What is better about the VTAC's barrel? As far as I can tell, it is just a S&W barrel? Both 4150, Colt is 1:7 6r vs S&W 1:8 5r As for the free float, if I follow rb889's idea I can get a DD omega free float rail for $200 vs $800 difference between them Quoted:
Quoted:
Owning two 6920s, I can tell you the VTAC has a much better barrel, a quality free float rail and a great out of the box trigger from Geissele. The question is what can you build that will be comparable for the same money. What is better about the VTAC's barrel? As far as I can tell, it is just a S&W barrel? Both 4150, Colt is 1:7 6r vs S&W 1:8 5r As for the free float, if I follow rb889's idea I can get a DD omega free float rail for $200 vs $800 difference between them A $60 ALG trigger will be just as good as a Geissele SSA for a non-precision shooter. A lot of people don't realize just how good a stock AR15 trigger is compared to other rifles; going from good to damn good for $60 isn't bad. It isn't really worth paying $200 just for a slightly better trigger when the rifle isn't sub-MOA capable. Better to spend that $140 difference on mags, ammo, sling, sights, etc. The S&W barrel sure as hell isn't much of a step up from a Colt 6920 for the money you're paying. The Colt barrels are 1/7 CL. The S&W uses 5R 1/8 with a nitride finish. They both hold 1 to 2 MOA. You can get a LE6920 for $950, less if you wait for a deal or get their OEM model. $150-250 for a free-float KAC RAS 2, Omega 7, or even a Centurion C4. You could add a $180 Geissele trigger and still be under the $1500 for the VTAC M&P. It's not worth it unless the VTAC has all the parts that you specifically want on your rifle. |
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if the sw is EXACTLY what you want, and the price is acceptable to you buy it. If it is NOT exactly what you want and you think you'd end up changing stuff out on it, build EXACTLY what you want for the same price or probably cheaper.
ETA: if you do decide to build a rifle instead, ALGdefense makes great rails that are very similar to the VTAC rail" but IMO better for $155 And order a Larue MBT 2 stage trigger, if they're still doing the "I can wait" option for $125. The best trigger for the $$ hands down. ETA2: someone mentioned BCM. The easiest route would be to buy a complete upper and lower from bcm or one of their vendors and you'd get a better rifle (IMHO) than either of the ones you are looking at, and it'll be $400 or more cheaper. That $400 will get you a case of ammo and 5 or so mags. Don't forget the ammo and mags! |
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